S2 Clutch seized?

[LOTUSMAN33]

Hi guys

After sorting all the damaged electrics I am faced with a clutch possibly seized, when putting the car in gear and starting with the clutch down it moves on the starter. I replaced the slave cylinder and bleed the system but the car has been sitting for several months on the drive.

I have tried warming the engine up then rocking it back and forth on the starter in gear but it won't release, I have also left the clutch pedal depressed overnight without luck

The fork is moving well so I don't think it is a bleeding issue? The pedal feels good too.

I know people say to drive the car in gear with the clutch down but where I live at the base of a hill makes this not practical and don't want the car stranded.

Anyone have any good ideas?

This car is really trying my patience as having nothing but bad luck with it, anyone would think it wanted breaking up!

Dave

[Sparky]

If it is seized, a few vicious kicks on the pedal will normally sort it.  Certainly driving is the best way.  I often collect cars with failed hydraulic clutches; it's just a matter of starting in gear and changing at the right rev range.  A bit of that and you'll soon free it off.  At the base of a hill you should be OK, as you can always roll it back!

[andy b]

The best way is patience Run the car until the fans come in and out a few times let the heat sink into the fly wheel have a beer or cuppa it will expand enough and the clutch plate will not so it should crack of when you restart the car in gear with your foot fully depressed on the clutch.Did i say get the engine hot for a good while before trying. andy b

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks guys, the latest is;

I have now wedged the clutch pedal down with a bit of wood, I then wound the adjuster in a little and can get three 12" steel rules between the flywheel and friction plate!

I then put the car in gear and let the handbrake off on my steep drive and still nothing? It should surely now free run?

How much clearance is there between the flywheel and friction plate when a clutch is depressed? Could it be I have not bleed enough air from the slave cylinder so the clutch isn't be depressed enough, I did bleed it with the rod attached but the adjuster wound out, the spring was fitted though if memory serves me right?

Tomorrow I am going to bleed it again anyway with no spring and rod fitted to make sure the piston gets full stroke.

Another thinking is the input shaft to bearing but can't see how it would cause the issue, I suspect part of the problem was when I degreased the engine and washed down with water as some may have gone in the bell housing, I did cover it best I could, the tailgate glass was also leaking all winter and the engine cover was in the garage.

Shame as I was so close to having it ready for Brooklands on Sunday so now will be in the Dagenham dustbin!

Dave

[johnpwalsh]

Yep Andrew is the correct way to do it, it works even better if your car is facing up a slight incline, get it inot first if you can then start her in gear with your foot down on the clutch pedal and she should break free, you may have to try it a few times.

[Sir Paolo]

In the past I have had to resort to brute force to free a clutch- it required towing the car with the pedal depressed and in gear, then releasing the pedal. A bit like a bump start!

[LOTUSMAN33]

Cheers guys

I am going to do battle again in the morning, I am trying to find the clutch air gap, online for different cars it is 0.040"-0.075" so between 1mm and 2mm.

Does anyone know the lotus spec for 907 engines?

I need to get it moving as my S1 body shell is going for paint on Tuesday and trapped behind the S2, I think it must be jealous!

Dave

[LOTUSMAN33]

All fixed, my neighbour who runs a garage popped over this morning and had a look, he confirmed it was strange with a gap between the flywheel and friction plate.

We bleed the system again with no change so he then put a pinch bar behind the fork and pushed the clutch fully open, the car was in gear on a slope with the handbrake off..... You can no doubt guess what happened next! Good job I am quick on my feet as the Dagenham dustbin would have got a designer rear end!

I can now turn the car around and fit the other two reconditioned wheels, remove what is left of the alarm and tackle the leaking exhaust manifold!

Oh yeah and that knackered wiper wheel box, Lotus cars certainly keep us busy !

Dave

[molemot]

Stuck clutches....I've unstuck them before now by jacking up the rear end and putting it on good solid axle stands. Then start the engine with the car in neutral and warm it up. Stop the engine, engage first gear and start up again...the rear wheels will revolve. Depress the clutch and then play with the brakes and throttle as if you were "Heel and toeing". Modulate the engine power and the braking force....in the end, the clutch will unstick. No drama this way!

[johnpwalsh]

Glad you got it free.

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks guys, really glad it is sorted as seemed so strange having clearance between the flywheel and plate....

I was starting to think where I was going to put the car to pull the engine, next problem which may mean pulling the lump is the exhaust manifold gasket is leaking badly, don't think it is cracked as had a look with a mirror. Looks like someone attempted it before and gave up as got some bolts fitted rather than studs/nuts.

Has anyone done a s2 one in place before as looks very close to the chassis?

Dave

[Paul Coleman]

This car is really trying my patience as having nothing but bad luck with it, anyone would think it wanted breaking up!

Dave

Yeah break it Dave... can I have the rear glass? Hahahaha

 

Cheers, Paul.

[LOTUSMAN33]

Lol! Paul

A few years ago I would have, last time I broke a S2 I felt like Dr Evil on here!

Haven't you sorted that yet? I really need to make some calls this week for you, mind I have not seen a second hand one come up for years hence me buying and breaking that S2 to restore my S1!

Has no one got a S3 one for sale? Determined to save this S2 even if a pain in the A#s!

Dave

[johnpwalsh]

I have an S3 for sale. Also a few spare manifolds if you need one as I went for stainless steel, the manifoldd can be done with the engine in situ, a bit awkward but doable, make sure once you get it off to replace the studs with s/s for future work, it mkaes next time easier. I also have a shed load of spares for an Elite and an Eclat that I am clearing out due to loss of storage space, have a look at the classified's on here.

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks John, I may well take you up on a manifold as it may be cracked, I have had a couple go on different Esprits over the years. I normally take the engine out and do some deep maintenance like valve clearances etc and clutch. Want to avoid that this time as will be working on my driveway, I was thinking of removing the engine mounts to gain better access by moving the motor about? Like you I always go for stainless studs with copper nuts, not looking forward to this job as someone has had a go before and rounded all the remaining nuts!

Still wouldn't be fun without a challenge and at least when done I can finally drive it.

Good luck with the S3 sale, I think I would have gone for yours if I had not bought this one.

Dave

[johnpwalsh]

old engineers tip for you that might help cracking the rounded nuts, run the engine untill hot, get an old spray bottle and spray cold water directly on the nuts, usea slightly under sized spanner and give them a slight tighten first before trying to slacken, the cold water shocks the seal on the nut and sometimes helps crack them off. This is how I did my first one in situe and managed fine without lifting the engine off the mountings as it does not leave a lot of room to remove the mannifold once its off. my problem now is my new stainless steel one can only be taken off with the engine in situ as it does not clear the chassis to take the engine out.

[LOTUSMAN33]

Thanks for the tip John, the S1 goes for paint tomorrow so will be putting the S2 in the garage to tackle the manifold, gear selector and wiper wheel box, also not forgetting removing the last of the alarm system!

Dave

[vintaylor]

Hi Dave,

 

What's wrong with your wiper wheel box?  Apparently this is the same part as a mini .. might be able to save some money there

[LOTUSMAN33]

Hi Vin

Mine has been stripped on the spline, I ordered my mini one a few days ago so hopefully it will arrive this week. Does not look easy to do with the dash in place though.

Cost me £16 instead of the £35 +vat from SJ so the way forward.

Dave

[vintaylor]

Hi Dave,

Mine has the same issue.. I am looking at replacing both the wiper box and the arm.

 

Would you by any chance be able to take a quick pic of how the seals need to be installed for me ?  I took this off about 3 years ago and not sure if I have all the right seals available! 

 

I think I have the right seals available but the image I took of the wiper wheel box before I took it off isn't that clear.

 

 

*you can add another beer to the list* - by the end of it you can come over to Malta for a weekend break without any spending money and up wasted the whole time! haha

[pete]

old engineers tip for you that might help cracking the rounded nuts, run the engine untill hot, get an old spray bottle and spray cold water directly on the nuts, usea slightly under sized spanner and give them a slight tighten first before trying to slacken, the cold water shocks the seal on the nut and sometimes helps crack them off. This is how I did my first one in situe and managed fine without lifting the engine off the mountings as it does not leave a lot of room to remove the mannifold once its off. my problem now is my new stainless steel one can only be taken off with the engine in situ as it does not clear the chassis to take the engine out.

this works the opposite way

http://www.wurth.co.uk/data/productdocuments/070186.pdf

[LOTUSMAN33]

Vin

No worries, I have never done one before so a learning curve!

Pete

Thanks, I will look into that as at least won't burn my hands trying to attack when hot!

Cheers

Dave

[vintaylor]

[MrDangerUS]

Stuck clutches....I've unstuck them before now by jacking up the rear end and putting it on good solid axle stands. Then start the engine with the car in neutral and warm it up. Stop the engine, engage first gear and start up again...the rear wheels will revolve. Depress the clutch and then play with the brakes and throttle as if you were "Heel and toeing". Modulate the engine power and the braking force....in the end, the clutch will unstick. No drama this way!

Can it be done the same way, but just cranking with starter motor?

[molemot]

Possibly...but the load on the starter motor and ring gear, too, might be excessive. The idea of stalling the starter and the current draw that would result worries me; cable melting time....