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S1 Project car - part 2 - the continuation


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Fabian, quick question - do you have a flow lock valve in your fuel line - mine has one and they seem to be a usual fitment? 

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1 hour ago, skiing said:

Fabian, quick question - do you have a flow lock valve in your fuel line - mine has one and they seem to be a usual fitment? 

Hi Henry, great question. The answer is yes and no! Initially I decided to remove the flow lock valve. Its a magnetic fuel cut off. When theres no power it cuts the fuel supply off, handy If you end up inverted- but I am sure if this happens and you can’t get out you will have more pressing concerns!
As the risk of this is very low I decided to remove the valve. I didn’t know its other purpose is to prevent fuel syphoning when on a slope. The Esprits tanks are much lower than the carbs, so I don’t think this is relevant.  Early S1 s didn’t have the valve anyhow after a lot of consideration I have decided to reinstall the flow lock valve. Why?
Well the main reason is it has a bracket that secures it to the chassis and supports the fuel line in an easy manner. The other is If I am wrong and fuel syphon is possible in the Esprit it would lead to other problems. Because of the flow locks simple design failure is very unlikely, so back in the fuel line it goes!

I plan to fit the completed new line later today so the car will be drivable. Then its only temperature testing, fan override and Bilge blower to complete all of my updates. 

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Well thats a relief all running again! Now just to fit a fan overide, bilge blower, adjust the clutch and the fun part do some testing!

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Thanks Fabian - I had heard it was there for the fuel siphon issue primarily - they are NLA - mine is looking rather tired but I have cleaned up and re-wired as the wire was corroded and crusty... hopefully it is still working!

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Well my go over is taking longer than expected. I spent all day yesterday trying to install an Override and blower fan control. I don't want any addition wires from rear to front as all the trim would have to come out. I have a new wiring loom installed. The S1 cooling fans never had a relay. This is really bad news as it's only a matter of time before the wires melt! Luckily I installed a 40 amp relay. However look what I found…B546F5A4-D917-4481-BECA-94A749DE34BE.thumb.jpeg.67ebdfad08fb8f7636c702e1c2994b5c.jpegThese wires are more than adequate to carry the fan current. The above was the result of a bad crimp! I did it so only me to blame. I have cut the end of and made a new crimp. I have tested it and no over heating, a lucky find! I am about to spend another da6 working on the fans. I have a solution. I am connecting an override switch directly to this relay. I will then use the long black orange obsolete otter wire to control a relay in the boot for the blower. The override switch will be double pole so I don’t get the blower on when my thermal switch turns the main fans on. If I get in extreme temperatures I will hit the override for all four fans! 
can’t believe how long this has taken from concept to solution, it alL seems so simple!

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I upgraded my S1's cooling system, fitting 3 Spal fans to the radiator. I assume that's what you've done, or similar. From memory they are each rated at 85 Watts.

Because of that I didn't power them through the standard car's loom. Rather using the loom switching circuit to control relays on the fans, and powering the fans via a dedicated and fused wire from the battery.

Those fans draw quite a lot of current, then multiply that by 3 (in my case) and ....???

If you haven't done already I would suggest you calculate how much current your cooling fans are actually drawing through the loom, as you don't want an electrical fire 🔥

Those brown marks indicate that there is an issue, and I would not put that down to poor "crimping" without doing the above.

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Thanks. I have triple Kenlowe fans which were made bespoke for my radiator. Luckily I don’t have the same loom as other S1s. I bought it new and then had to add circuits including the dual headlight motor bit will all the relays! I have modern thin wall cable in it which has a much greater current capacity than the old stuff for a much smaller width. The fan wires are pretty beefy compared with the others.

I have been running the set up for 8 years now. This is the first time I have examined the connections. There is no melting of the wires just heat generated by the high resistance of the poor crimp. I replaced it and tested it, no heat of any note. A lucky find! I have just completed the override switch which is now working, with a secondary feed to the engine bay. I will make a relay circuit for this and the blower. Testing and temperature measuring and all the mods will be complete. I will do more extensive testing and keep an eye on it and just about everything else. You never really finish these cars!

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I too have the replacement S1 loom from SJ Sportcars/Autosparks, but bought the one for the late S1 which does come with the dual motor feeds as standard.

However,.... they have measured it from the S2 dual motor front loom, which is routed differently and more directly via the front bulkhead, and subsequently is a little too short for the S1.

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1 hour ago, Fridge said:

I too have the replacement S1 loom from SJ Sportcars/Autosparks, but bought the one for the late S1 which does come with the dual motor feeds as standard.

However,.... they have measured it from the S2 dual motor front loom, which is routed differently and more directly via the front bulkhead, and subsequently is a little too short for the S1.

I had that problem and had to remake it in several areas. I made the dual headlight system from scratch using the manual wiring diagram. Funny enough it worked better than the ready made loom which had an extra wire which was shorting out the veglia! I upgraded some of the main loom wires and added several missing circuits. If I ever do another car, which is very unlikely I would use the original loom, peel the tape of and replace only wires that needed it. I have 8 years of experience now which helps. I plan to extensively test my car to its limit over the next few weeks and see how the fans perform. Of course I will inspect all the wires again! 

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Its eight years ago now, but I couldn't get anything to work. I think it was red. I had to trace every wire individually. After weeks of diagnosis  I couldn’t not work out what the wire was doing so I decided to cut it. As soon as I did the display came to life and was able to test my light and motor circuits which all worked first time! Buying new looms can be a risky business! Considering the amount I paid it would have been far quicker, cheaper and easier to upgrade the original. I have also learned a lot abount crimping. Its easy if you have the correct tool and decent crimps. I have about four tools I bought from ebay. Only one was able to crimp properly and I used it so much the die in it broke in half! The best place to by the tool and crimps is Autosparks. It works properly and costs about £40 with crimps. You can achieve the same quality as a newly manufactured loom.

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Heres a reminder of all the loom tape I had to peel off eight years ago. Gutting when you have just spent£460 on the loom! 78A06B54-13C7-44CC-A2D6-FC1AEC81A0B2.thumb.png.34958119ad066e7206a32c9765e45c54.png

BD2AC57C-3839-4B71-AC37-49524CA7680D.thumb.png.3025ffdb2d7a95fc1f5c7cc5c29b28c0.pngAs you can see this was a deep resto!

I sat there for hours and hours checking all the circuits and even the printed circuit board before I found the duff wire put in by the loom manufacturer. Good job I decided to cut it. This fault finding was really A level!

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Good news is I have completed the fan override circuits.. I throw the switch  and all three Kenlowe fans spring to life. I will have a double pole switch so the blower can be controlled separately. I used the redundant otter switch wire to control the blower as I didn’t want to remove the trim to fit extra wires. All I need to do now is make a bracket which will attach to the belllhousing bolts which will support the blower. Once this is done I will do some testing and put some engine bay temperature figures on here.

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On 18/05/2022 at 18:32, Lotusfab said:

If I ever do another car, which is very unlikely I would use the original loom, peel the tape of and replace only wires that needed it. 

That's exactly what I did but I also replaced the connectors as well. I added dedicated fused live feeds for the headlights, fans and windows. There is no point in adding relays unless you beef up the live feeds.

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Lotus Esprit [meaning] a 1:1 scale Airfix kit with a propensity to catch fire

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On 18/05/2022 at 17:00, Fridge said:

I too have the replacement S1 loom from SJ Sportcars/Autosparks, but bought the one for the late S1 which does come with the dual motor feeds as standard.

However,.... they have measured it from the S2 dual motor front loom, which is routed differently and more directly via the front bulkhead, and subsequently is a little too short for the S1.

I called Autosparks who made the loom to find out what rating cable the used to my surprise 8.75 Amps! I replaced lots of the wires and probably stripped out their cable, but can’t be certain. Because of this I am going to replace the yellow and green fan supply wire with one rated at 25 amps, just to be absolutely sure. I have almost finished the fan mod. Now I have removed the otter I have to measure the temperature at the curved pipe to set the fan operating temp. I have also decided to change to alternator to 65 amp. I want to be able to power four fans continuously without issue. 

Has anyone used Evans coolant? I was thinking of switching. It should reduced the probability of leaks and if it gets hot it won’t boil. Although you could say its better if it boils as you have a warning before engine damage!
 

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Much has been said on the merits of Evans, not sure I'm persuaded. Overview of the cooling system from perspective of what is good for the engine is oil near 100 C., cylinder head nearer 82 for best resistance to combustion irregularities. If it's all been built to function well and in good nick why reinvent the wheel? The conventional mix of water/antifreeze in a pressurized system should never boil given attention to getting the system optimized. The 900 series is a rugged engine when properly sorted and operated.

Cheers 

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5 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

I called Autosparks who made the loom to find out what rating cable the used to my surprise 8.75 Amps! I replaced lots of the wires and probably stripped out their cable, but can’t be certain. Because of this I am going to replace the yellow and green fan supply wire with one rated at 25 amps, just to be absolutely sure. I have almost finished the fan mod. Now I have removed the otter I have to measure the temperature at the curved pipe to set the fan operating temp. I have also decided to change to alternator to 65 amp. I want to be able to power four fans continuously without issue. 

Has anyone used Evans coolant? I was thinking of switching. It should reduced the probability of leaks and if it gets hot it won’t boil. Although you could say its better if it boils as you have a warning before engine damage!
 

I would never trust a standard car loom to carry sustained current for those cooling fans, which is why I questioned your burnt connectors.

A dedicated and rated feed is far better, fused, and can be used to also power the headlamps, which will be brighter. Negating the time and effort involved in upgrading to LED bulbs etc which will probably give you insurance issues if involved in an accident during their use.

I discussed Evans coolant with @bgalbraith but decided against it as North Yorkshire is nothing like the south in terms of traffic congestion, which I found out this week after driving

Edited by Fridge
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I indeed upgrade my wiring. I ran two 10 ga brown wires from the starter solenoid to the front, one for the three Spal fans that I installed, and one for the headlights. The headlight performance drops significantly when the voltage drops below the rated voltage (12 volt). The fans can survive though. I added relays fore the fans and headlights. Lots of changes, but well worth it.

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@bgalbraith you also run Evans coolant I believe, being half reptile in the Florida heat. Far different from the North Yorkshire Arctic tundra in which I inhabit it seems. Though it's been warming up this week whilst I've been in southern climes.

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Yeah, I run Evans in a couple cars, and will be adding it to the Jaguar XKR when I do the next maintenance on it.

For the Esprit, if you live in a hotter climate and don't want the expense of Evans, you can at least change out the thermostat and fan switch to the "hot climate" versions, which trigger on lower temperatures.

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1 hour ago, bgalbraith said:

I indeed upgrade my wiring. I ran two 10 ga brown wires from the starter solenoid to the front, one for the three Spal fans that I installed, and one for the headlights. The headlight performance drops significantly when the voltage drops below the rated voltage (12 volt). The fans can survive though. I added relays fore the fans and headlights. Lots of changes, but well worth it.

Voltage shouldn’t drop below 12 V . I tested this with my 45A alternator. It’s 14.2 V without fans. 13.96 V with all fans on. I am upgrading to a 65A alternator.

Still not sure about Evans its heat capacity is less than water which means in theory its less able to transfer heat. The good this is it doesn’t creat much pressure which means the chance of a leak is much less and failure due to lack of coolant is less. Tricky to get all the water out. Will have to do several expensive coolant changes.

Not sure why autosparks use 8.75 amp cable in the loom for fans. That can’t be enough to power the three original fans. Its so cheap they should spec 25 amp as standard. 

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The crimp caused the overheat on my circuit. I have two friends who are experts, one was an electrical engineer and the other designs electronics they both confirmed it. I only post this so if anyone sees similar damage they know what caused  it. You can clearly see the source of overheat is the crimp in the picture. My friend has had crimp issue before in the manufacture of products so is well aware of the characteristics. Incidentally he recommends crimp and the solder.

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