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Retrofitting a chargecooler - Page 3 - Induction/Turbo/Chargecooler/Manifold/Exhaust - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Corban

Retrofitting a chargecooler

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Fuel pressure will rise 1:1 with boost (on an 89+ Esprit, not sure about 88), but your carbs may not be delivering extra fuel, or enough extra... I don't know?

 

You should use an air:fuel meter to verify.

 

I installed this one

http://www.plxdevices.com/product_info.php?id=WDBDSMAFR_DM6G3

I'm also adding a boost sensor and dual fluid temp sensor to mine.

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Nice one Travis....

I think that's going to be a necessity for when I eventually convert, be it on carbs or injection.

Corban, was it really THAT much quicker.

I'm expecting a fair amount more pace, but not fast&furious nitrous type difference... :)

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Wideband is good, I have been looking for a 52mm gauge and maybe exchange volt meter in dash for it. Would really like to find one that matches existing instruments. It would make me feel a lot safer if I could read the A/F ratio in real time when driving with these mods.
 
I am not sure how much quicker it is, have only done 2 test runs so far but I can give you a short summary on how the first one was  :scared:  ...... I think I really got a neat installation. Only had to make two holes from the shelf in the rear (where the ignition coil is) to feed the wastegate with hose. The solenoid is sheltered with the other electronics in there. Hose to boost sensor was connected above the right hand wheel arch and the sensor is placed there too, so only two short hoses in the engine bay, the rest is out of sight. Haven't routed the wiring correctly yet since I wanted to know if it was working correctly and what the outcome might be. At the moment the wires run via the sun roof :)
It was with great anticipation and fear I took it out for the first test. I started with program A (9 psi) and drove calmly to let the engine and oil warm up. It was feeling very much the same as before (which was the purpose of program A), maybe a little smoother on boost build up, looking at the original boost gauge. The new one is digital so almost impossible to read when flooring it. Everything was working alright so I decided to test program B (0.85 Bar, 12psi). First started off light on the throttle and when clear of traffic I floored it in a progressive way. I could feel there was a difference but at 4000 rpm it lost breath (much like the rev limiter in action), this lasted 2-3 seconds then it came back with a roar and my feeling was that it was faster. A little scared from the stutter at 4000 rpm and the burst of power I let the throttle up... this resulted in the loudest bang so far from the exhaust. I am talking Tjernobyl stylee...
I drove very carefully to the next roundabout, checking for strange noises and looking at gauges. Everything seemed to be working alright so I did a new run. This time there was a hesitation at 4000 rpm but not as the first run. It felt a lot quicker, trying to time acceleration was out of the question when looking at gauges and listening for strange noises (and being slung back in the seat). I let up at 6900rpm in second gear. I normaly get a series of bangs from the exhaust when I do this but not as loud as this time. I decided to reduce boost to 10 psi and take a break :)
The manual isn't a very good translation but there might be a self learning function in the control unit. This could explain the stutter at 4000 rpm, solenoid reacting too slow and boost overshooting, thus cutting fuel or opening WG too quick but on the second run it reacted quicker.
The bangs from the exhaust, which I always have when I let up (sports exhaust), I interpret as it is running rich and that excessive, unburnt fuel detonate when hitting the hot manifold. Can anyone verify this?

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Update from the latest test runs.
Took it for a spin on my lunch break. Running first on program A to warm things up and I saw that it was good! Then switching to program B (10psi) for a few bursts and I saw that is was good! It was a no brainer, time to up the antes. I reprogrammed the boost level to 11 psi, did some runs and I saw that is was good! Then raised to 12 psi, still running fine. End of lunch break.
Inspired by these good results I increased to 13 psi when I finished work and took it for a drive. All fluids warmed up it was time to floor it. Not in a hasty manner but still firm and decisive. BANG from the exhaust at 4500 rpm (had to change my underwear). The original boost gauge moves much like the tacho needle in this setting. I reverted to program A and ran for some minutes to make sure the car was OK, which hopefully it was, I couldn't notice anything broken. All of a sudden the alarm starts beeping on the boost controller but I am only idling in 4th gear (boost reading only 0.5 psi). I decided to abort the mission and head back home to analyze the results.
@Simon, on the first test run, when it came back after the stutter (and before the bang) it was kind of a "fast and furious" nitrous experience. This I think is because it seem to be "self learning". It overshot the set boost level of 13 psi by far but then it learned to open wastegate more responsive. Running on 10-12 psi it feels a little quicker but not like nitrous. Now I didn't dare to do more runs with 13 psi without thinking things through but I guess it will learn and the bang might go away.
The bang I still contribute to too much fuel, maybe increased fuel pressure gives a much too rich mixture.

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Maybe..... Let's hope you've not done any lasting damage.

I can't help but think it's a little dangerous to play with her from here without that wide and O2 sensor fitted.

Is only a couple of £££ and you'll know what you're dealing with then and compensate accordingly. The carbs do up the fuel when under pressure from the balance pipe? But quite how much it will compensate for I really have no idea.

I'd like to see the readings personally. Doesn't have to be a fancy install for now, just get it in and see what's going on

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Couldn't agree more Simon, a wideband lambda gauge would provide useful info. I still think it is running a rich mixture so I am not so scared I will melt the piston heads down by running lean. I'll have a look at the spark plugs this weekend to see if they indicate rich or lean. If there was a lack of fuel it wouldn't bang whilst the car is accelerating? Ignition is another issue. Since there is no ECU sensing higher boost and advancing/retarding ignition accordingly, maybe this could explain unburnt fuel in manifold and the loud bang. It would be nice to hear from the people in this forum that have done this mod before me, if they experianced similar issues.

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Corban, couple of questions for you:

 

Did you sort the bang/miss out at 4000ish rpm?

Are you running larger jets?

Does your boost controller have gain and start settings?

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Turns out they sent me the wrong unit.

It is a boost controller alright but it doesn't have gain and start settings like the unit I
ordered. I am now trying to get them to send me the right one.

So for the moment I am running it without the boost controller.

I am planning to fit a A/F ratio gauge. Must know if it is running rich or lean
before I start tampering with the carbs.

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Henrik,

How come you never continued posting on this v. interesting project? It is a valuable education for others.

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The car was right hand drive, which here in Sweden is a bummer when you want to overtake on curvy roads. The Chinese company never corrected their mistake and never sent me the unit I ordered.
After 30-40 e-mails, I gave up and decided to cut my loses and NEVER order anything from China again! I realized that tuning the carb engine would be much harder than just upgrading to an SE with LHD 😃
I started reading the ads and found an SE, MY90 after some weeks. Sold the RHD MY88 and bought the SE. Problem solved!

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21 hours ago, MrDangerUS said:

Henrik,

How come you never continued posting on this v. interesting project? It is a valuable education for others.

I fitted a charge cooler to mine when it was originally on Carbs. It is doable, but a lot of the parts would be hard to source now I reckon, like the plenum pipe parts off a charge cooled car.

I used my defunct air con rad for the charge cooler rad, and ran some custom alloy pipes from the back to the front in the gap between the chassis and the body. I use an electric water pump.

There were a few other bits I needed to do, like make a reservoir for the charge cooler coolant and make up a few brackets and stuff, but overall it wasn't a massively difficult job. I did have to swap the inlet cam cover as well, as the oil filler is in the wrong place on a Carb turbo as it sits right under the charge cooler on an SE!

I wouldn't like to tackle it now though due to lack of parts.

I went on to remove the carbs and fit an Emerald M3D ecu and fuel injection, as well as a hybrid turbo.

My car now makes 301bhp on a rolling road. Not bad considering it would have been specced at 215bhp when I bought it 21 years ago.

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4 hours ago, Glyn Harper said:

I fitted a charge cooler to mine when it was originally on Carbs. It is doable, but a lot of the parts would be hard to source now I reckon, like the plenum pipe parts off a charge cooled car.

I used my defunct air con rad for the charge cooler rad, and ran some custom alloy pipes from the back to the front in the gap between the chassis and the body. I use an electric water pump.

There were a few other bits I needed to do, like make a reservoir for the charge cooler coolant and make up a few brackets and stuff, but overall it wasn't a massively difficult job. I did have to swap the inlet cam cover as well, as the oil filler is in the wrong place on a Carb turbo as it sits right under the charge cooler on an SE!

I wouldn't like to tackle it now though due to lack of parts.

I went on to remove the carbs and fit an Emerald M3D ecu and fuel injection, as well as a hybrid turbo.

My car now makes 301bhp on a rolling road. Not bad considering it would have been specced at 215bhp when I bought it 21 years ago.

What size exhaust are you using with such power gain?

Lars

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It is a custom exhaust. The pipework uses the standard downpipe and then goes into a rear silencer that has very little baffles in it. I think the main pipework is standard, 2 1/2" I think.

I think most of the power is made by the hybrid turbo as well as the ECU I am running with the different injectors.

I only run 4 injectors, not 6. They are Rover 220 Turbo Coupe injectors, so 300bhp is about the limit for them.

The car runs a little rough when it is cold (I need a better warm up map) but when it is warm, it runs really smooth and nice. No flat spots in the fuelling. I have checked as I can log my ECU.

I have also reduced the weight of the car by over 100kg from standard by removing soundproofing, lighter seats, carbon sunroof, lighter bonnet, titanium and aluminium bolts, aluminium radiator.. etc.. so it is much better now because of that also.

The only thing that spoils the car really is the gear change. I need to get it lined up properly as at the moment it is not great, although all the parts are new.

Edited by Glyn Harper

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On 03/02/2019 at 19:18, Glyn Harper said:

I fitted a charge cooler to mine when it was originally on Carbs. It is doable, but a lot of the parts would be hard to source now I reckon, like the plenum pipe parts off a charge cooled car.

I used my defunct air con rad for the charge cooler rad, and ran some custom alloy pipes from the back to the front in the gap between the chassis and the body. I use an electric water pump.

There were a few other bits I needed to do, like make a reservoir for the charge cooler coolant and make up a few brackets and stuff, but overall it wasn't a massively difficult job. I did have to swap the inlet cam cover as well, as the oil filler is in the wrong place on a Carb turbo as it sits right under the charge cooler on an SE!

I wouldn't like to tackle it now though due to lack of parts.

I went on to remove the carbs and fit an Emerald M3D ecu and fuel injection, as well as a hybrid turbo.

My car now makes 301bhp on a rolling road. Not bad considering it would have been specced at 215bhp when I bought it 21 years ago.

I have lowered the radiator pack to install a radiator for a CAC, and did consider using the AC condenser for that purpose but find the condenser pipings rather narrow. My AC is working but dont mind to sacrifice it as my need for it is limited, and hoses are rock hard.

But you numbers proves otherwise. Do you have any means of meassuring the AIT after the CAC?

What kind of throttles bodies and injectors are you using?

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My air con was mostly missing when I got the car which is why it was an easy choice to use the radiator for the charge cooler. :)

The pipes are indeed quite narrow, but they seem to be ok.

I can monitor air temperature after the charge cooler, but I don't have a way to measure it going in. Certainly after a good run though when the engine is really hot, my charge cooler is always stone cold so it does the job.

The throttle bodies are the standard SE ones, along with a standard fuel rail. When it was on the rolling road though, we did have to squash the fuel pressure regulator to up the fuel pressure a bit. I only use 4 injectors, but as I'm not using a Lotus ECU they are not the Lotus type of injectors.

I'm pretty certain these are the 4 injectors I'm using.

Rover Tomcat 220 2.0 Turbo 420 Fuel Injector Lucas 380cc MJY10023

They certainly look the same anyway, black with a red stripe.

On the rolling road, the 301hp was made with decent fuelling though, as the lambda didn't lean out at any point so I'm quite happy they're up to the job.

Here's my power run. :)

 

Photo 03-05-2018, 4 39 57 pm.jpg

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Impressive torque curve!

Kind of glad to hear that the AC condenser are functioning despite the narrow pipings. Thing is that R12 is obsolete and conversion will reduce performance. Hence it does note make much sense covering the AC condenser with another radiator in front of it.

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