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I've got a waste gate and I wanna use it! - Page 3 - Induction/Turbo/Chargecooler/Manifold/Exhaust - The Lotus Forums - Official Lotus Community Partner Jump to content


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I've got a waste gate and I wanna use it!


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I am not convinced the ecu does cut ignition when the boost limit is reached for a couple of reasons: If the ignition module does not receive the timing signal from the ecu it will switch into the 'bypass' mode as a limp home failsafe. Also, I cannot find any changes in the code to the spark operation when the boost limit is exceeded, only the primary and secondary fuel injector pulsewidths being set to zero to cut the fuel delivery.

- plus this goes withmy opinion regarding getting over boost followed by essentially an engine shutdown. 120000 rpm of the turbine withno oil pressure. Doesn't sound right to me....

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The engine check light illuminates briefly at key on as a lamp check. If it doesn't you need to find out why.

 

Even if you had spark cut as well as the fuel cut it would not starve the turbocharger (or engine) of oil as the oil pump would still be pumping due to the car turning the engine.

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I may have to re-read the manual. I'm sure it said ignition and fuel were affected by overboost.

I don't know for how long the effect lasts. Fuel may only be shut off for the duration of the overboost which shouldn't be too long if your engine stops producing exhaust gasses. Anyway, what is carbonisation of turbo bearings compared to a blown up engine? ;)

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From the S4 manual:

 

"Under wide open throttle transient conditions, a short duration of additional boost up to 1.00 bar (14.7lb/s.in) may occur.

.... As an engine safeguard, in case of boost system control failure, the ECM will shut off the fuel pump and ignition if boost pressure in excess of 1.01 bar (15lb/sq.in) is detected for more than three seconds. Fuel and ignition are reinstated below 0.61 bar (9lb/sq.in)."

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I believe the reference to transient conditions is merely meaning the boost can rise higher than expected due to the turbocharger spooling up faster than the ecu reacts to control it.

 

I do not believe the manual is correct with regard to how boost limit control is achieved for the previously mentioned reasons. Saying the fuel pump is cut also adds weight to this view. Cutting the fuel pump is not a good idea as it means the injectors will be firing fuel in ever leaning A/F ratios until the fuel pressure drops which is not good. Or, if you believe the ignition is cut too, then you will get unburnt fuel washing the bores and burning in the catalytic convertor. It simply does not make sense to do these things.

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I see what you are saying Derek, but maybe the ecu just interrupts the injector sequencing(but uses the term fuel pump for the layman) and closes the injectors stopping fuel flow and alleviating the bore washing?

Simplest things first.

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From the S4 manual:

 

"Under wide open throttle transient conditions, a short duration of additional boost up to 1.00 bar (14.7lb/s.in) may occur.

.... As an engine safeguard, in case of boost system control failure, the ECM will shut off the fuel pump and ignition if boost pressure in excess of 1.01 bar (15lb/sq.in) is detected for more than three seconds. Fuel and ignition are reinstated below 0.61 bar (9lb/sq.in)."

 

Ok - that makes more sense.

're-instated' could be a second or two I suspect.

 

Talking about engine protection - does anyone know if the same thing happens to over-revving - i.e. a rev limiter

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Ok - some bizarre behaviour.

 

So I disconnected the battery and came back to it probably after 30 ~ 40 mins and reconnected.

 

I went out for a 10 mile drive, driving cautiously for the first 10 mins. 

 

Then I tested full throttle a couple of times.

 

Dammit! I still only get 0.5 to 0.6 bar!

 

Anyway - something REALLY weird had happened which is really bizarre.

 

Before - if you held your finger on the window up or window down button for more than about half a second then the window would go all the way down.  Or up.

 

Now the button has gone all "simple" and the windows go up or down only when you rest your finger on the button! :scared:

 

I liked the 'auto up' thing as you could get to the end of your journey - press the up button - and leave it going up while you sort your keys out and exit the car.

 

Anyone know WTF that's all about?

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You Disconnected the Battery ??!!! You Fool …. :D

 

If its anything like my 04 Scenic, there's a sequence of ignition key positions, timings and/or various buttons to press or hold to get your auto window functions back.

 

No idea what they are for your car though. Got the owners handbook?

 

Dave

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Hold finger on the button to close the window, once it's closed keep finger on the button for a few more seconds and you'll hear a faint click.

 

Job done.

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Jez

Mean Green S4s

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  • Gold FFM

Standard behaviour for GM auto windows. Cycle the window all the way up, holding the switch down for several more seconds after it's up. Repeat for down.

Whoops - missed irq's reply!

British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland.  And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden.

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Steve, I would confirm your check engine light is working before going any further.

If it is, then it might narrow your list of possibilities.

The ECM monitors the engine sensors to see if they are out of tolerance (and illuminates the Check Engine Light ("CEL").

If the light is on, then it's a good time to invest in Espritmon or Freescan.

I'm curious to know if your solenoid valve (see earlier messages) is working. The CEL comes on if the solenoid valve is not electrically plugged in, but I can't remember if the light comes on if the solenoid valve is not controlling the wastegate capsule properly.

Perhaps someone can post a pic of what the solenoid valve looks like... and how the pipes on the solenoid are connected to the wastegate actuator capsule. Sometimes they can be fitted to the wrong ports.

Did you get your chargecooler pump working properly? If the air temperatures out of your turbo chargecooler are too high, I recall that the ECM will not allow higher boost (i.e. high MAT (Mass Air Temperature) temperatures).

Edited by Qavion
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Some how i got those windows behaving again - not sure how - just random button pushing (including that safety button under the arm rest)


Hold finger on the button to close the window, once it's closed keep finger on the button for a few more seconds and you'll hear a faint click.

 

Job done.

 Job certainly is done - but I have to say - I love your avatar (made me chuckle a bit - maybe I should 'grow up')

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Steve, I would confirm your check engine light is working before going any further.

If it is, then it might narrow your list of possibilities.

The ECM monitors the engine sensors to see if they are out of tolerance (and illuminates the Check Engine Light ("CEL").

If the light is on, then it's a good time to invest in Espritmon or Freescan.

I'm curious to know if your solenoid valve (see earlier messages) is working. The CEL comes on if the solenoid valve is not electrically plugged in, but I can't remember if the light comes on if the solenoid valve is not controlling the wastegate capsule properly.

Perhaps someone can post a pic of what the solenoid valve looks like... and how the pipes on the solenoid are connected to the wastegate actuator capsule. Sometimes they can be fitted to the wrong ports.

Did you get your chargecooler pump working properly? If the air temperatures out of your turbo chargecooler are too high, I recall that the ECM will not allow higher boost (i.e. high MAT (Mass Air Temperature) temperatures).

 

Ok - here's some sh*tty news.

 

IGN on - car not started - yellow check engine light does not illuminate.

 

Wind back time..... when I road tested the car the CEL stayed on - they said they would fix it before I collect it.

 

Technically, removing the CEL bulb certainly does stop the light coming on however I didn't expect that method.

 

I have the special ECU lead now so I will start taking readings - incl the charge cooker 

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There's another CEL in the boot in with the relays you can check.

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest for a garage that replaced your fuel pump over run cut off switch (bullshit) to have removed your CEL bulb.

I'd love to know if it's there or not, another one is wrapping it in black tape. Don't know how easy it it is to get at the lamps to replace them on your car as I have a G Turbo and the binnacle is mounted and constructed slightly differently.

Please check to see if it's been taken out...... Then post your findings on here!

The CEL is a fairly significant fault to fix as it is an MOT failure!

Chunky Lover

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Was it fitted to later model S4's? On the SE and S4's without the revised harness, the repeater CEL was in the boot compartment with the solenoids, relays and fuel pump inertia switch (just behind the coolant tanks on the right hand side). This compartment was accessed by removing 6 screws in a cover panel. On later models, these components were split up. Some near the right hand wheel arch, others on the other side of the car.

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That was on se and the first s4 only, as mentioned before the 93.5 model yr onwards had the revised harness without it

From the sounds of it theyre removed the bulb and not solved the issue. Which makes me wonder what else theyve bodged. From the BS they were feeding you at the start of your issues it sounds like theres a lot that needs re - investigating. ..

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From the sounds of it theyre removed the bulb and not solved the issue.

 

 

On the SE you can squeeze your fingers under (and behind) the front face of the instrument panel and feel the plug on the CEL light to see if it has been disconnected. I have a leather dash though and it's pliable, yours might be different.

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"It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest for a garage that replaced your fuel pump over run cut off switch (bullshit) to have removed your CEL bulb."

 

LOL - yep I asked Taff about the 'over-run' and although his language was less 'fruity' as yours :-)  the sentiment was the same.  There's nothing to "over-run" - the pump primes everything until the engine is started etc etc.

 

Incidentally - I mentioned "removing the bulb" (CEL) as a tongue in cheek symptom - it could be bulb removal or cables clipped/ bulb blown/bulb not pushed home - whichever but the end story is the same - the CEL does not light because it cannot light.

 

If 'sorting out the CEL' was to stop it from lighting as opposed to fixing what made it glow then my impression of Snows (or whatever its called) Lotus dealer hasn't just gone through the floor - it's come out again in New Zealand.   Who would guess that a certified Lotus dealer would have Arthur Daily as the MD?

 

CEL in the boot? (possibly - depending on if the factory fitted it)  I shall investigate.

 

I also need to have a go with my new cable I've got to run the ECU software (will that give clues to a lit CEL?)

 

As far as MOT failure - I could give the 'Snows' response - i.e. - it's fine because there is no illuminating CEL

 

F*cking F*ckers.. :realmad: 
 


On the SE you can squeeze your fingers under (and behind) the front face of the instrument panel and feel the plug on the CEL light to see if it has been disconnected. I have a leather dash though and it's pliable, yours might be different.

 

I'll give this one a go.  Ta.

Edited by Stimpy
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Some how i got those windows behaving again - not sure how - just random button pushing (including that safety button under the arm rest)

 

Some how managing to avoid all the advice in this thread telling you exactly how to fix it, several times? Clever... :blink:

 

CEL in the boot?  I shall investigate.

 

Investigate by reading more of this, your own, thread. You'll see that theory debunked as there isn't one there on the S4s. 

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Some how managing to avoid all the advice in this thread telling you exactly how to fix it, several times? Clever... :blink:

 

 

Investigate by reading more of this, your own, thread. You'll see that theory debunked as there isn't one there on the S4s. 

 

You're such a lovely bloke.

 

1) The first response to the window question was on the last page before the end one so I pressed 'reply' to the FIRST POST. Subsequent posts (ie when carrying on to the next page) suggested the 'cure'.  Maybe I forgot to edit my first post or I should have apologised on a later post

 

2) I'm not sure that the theory is fully debunked. It is most likely that there isn't one on the S4s but if you can explain what harm there is in taking a look I'd be more than appreciated.

 

...hmmm, just checking to see if I've been rude and unwelcoming on other posts I've made.........    .....    ..... nope! Not a bad word or anything belittling (just like on Stag and mini forums, that strangely enough don't have posts by yourself ).  However, just in case there is any doubt then pass me your postal code and house number and I will apologise in writing.  Please tell me if you need a specimen of blood or other means of proof that self harm has been carried out in relation to this.....

 

wait for it....

 

wait.....

 

 

:fun:

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