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Headlamps not switching off - help required!


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Had a look at the main beams a few days ago, replaced a bulb that wasn't working, and put the lamps back. Went to start the car yesterday, battery completely dead.

 

When I did the lamp job, I switched the headlights on, up went the pods, and I removed the main and headlamp relays, as I couldn't find any fuses. The lamps extinguished themselves, and I put the relays back when I'd finished, and checked they worked OK.

 

What I hadn't noticed, was that although the lamp pods had gone down, the lamps were still on. Hence the dead battery.

 

I've managed to charge the battery, put it back on, and the problem still exists. Under Sparky's advice, I checked the relays, and the dashboard switch.

 

There is power to the dip headlamp relay where I think there should be none. Only terminal 30 should be powered, but terminal 86 is also powered, which presumably energises the relay, and the lamps.

 

The dash switch does check out for continuity, apart from perhaps terminal 7, it appears to be making the right contacts, but when it's powered up, it's like it's working opposite to what it should do.

 

When it's in the off position, there's power to terminal 6, and terminal 4. I think it should be 6 & 5.

 

When it's in the on position, there's power on 6 and 5. I think it should be 6 & 4.

 

I haven't touched anything else apart from what I said earlier, and now I'm completely mystified as to what's causing the problem, and how the hell to fix it.

 

Views will be appreciated.

 

 

Margate Exotics.

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Whilst doing some unrelated tinkering I found that the headlamp wiring diagram in Section ML of the Service Notes is wrong for the A100M6048F main / dip beam & indicator switch. This is what it sh

HI Ian, while I don't have the same car like you, mine's an SE 1990, I would look at the dim dip module and it related fuse (if any) It's an UK car feature. Some delete it. In my service notes (1988-

It's not the pod lift module, Travis. It's the pod delay module (pale-green, looks like a tall relay), situated on the relay 'arm'. Yup, there's the bloke down the road with a 1998 GT3, I'll see if

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I'll check that tomorrow, but I believe I've already swapped the Bosch relays, to no avail. The dip and main are the same relays as far as in can see, but who knows?

Margate Exotics.

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Relays are the correct ones.

 

When the lights are turned on, the pods lift, and the lights are on already. When the stalk is in the main beam position, only the inner lamps are lit. When the stalk is in the dip beam position, the outer lamps are lit. On pulling the 'flash' function, the inners light, but the main beam on the outers extinguishes.

 

With the switch off, the blue-base dip beam relay has power to terminal 30 (I don't think that is right), and the main beam relay has power to terminal 87 (also I don't think that's right). But when the dip beam relay is inserted into its socket, the dipbeams illuminate.

 

As for the switch, in the off position, terminal 3, 4 and 1 are dead. Terminal 5 and 6 are live. In the on position, 5 is dead, 1, 3, 4 and 6 are live.

 

I'm not sure I can go any further, apart from maybe having a look at the stalk itself, or contacting an auto-electrician. anyone know decent one in the Kent area?

Margate Exotics.

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The dip beam relay should not have power at pin 30 unless the master light switch is depressed and the turn/dip/flash switch is set to dip.

The main beam relay should not have power at pin 87 unless the master light switch is depressed and the turn/dip/flash switch is set to main. Using the dip/main beam stalk to flash will put power to pin 87 regardless of the position of the master light switch.

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Done that, no change. Had a look at the dip beam stalk, all seems as per normal, nothing obviously damaged.

It's like something has gone wrong with the logics!

Margate Exotics.

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I checked, the lamp relays on my car are identical -  5-pin 20/30A Bosch jobs.

 

I see there is a difference in the main beam relay depending on whether it has 4 mains or 2 mains, but does that explain why the dip beams are staying on? It's the power to the relay bases that I can't figure out.

 

And I'm convinced it wasn't happening when I bought the car, because the battery would have gone flat the first night I stuck it in the garage. But it started fine for a few days.

Margate Exotics.

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The dip beam and main relays should be different regardless of whether 2 or 4 mains illuminate:

Dip beam relay - changeover relay (i.e. pins 85, 86, 30, 87 and 87a)

2 main beam relay - single pole relay (i.e. pins 85, 86, 30, 87)

4 main beam relay - double pole relay (i.e. pins 85, 86, 30, 87 and 87b)

Having a changeover relay in the main beam socket will result in the headlights being on.

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Much obliged for the help Derek, it's so difficult trying to diagnose things like this by forum post.

According to my Lotus wiring diagram, if you have 2 mains, the relays are identical, 4 mains, and you need the different ones. I can't really comment, but I suspect that the lamps are not original, they're probably a dealer bodge job.

The thing is, I cannot see a relay that matches the double pole one you describe. Not saying there isn't one, but unfortunately the missus has told me I have to come in from the garage now, she's demanding dinner, and not happy I've spent all day in there, so I'll have another punt at it tomorrow!

Margate Exotics.

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Right!

Whilst on speaker-phone with Watford Exotics, I had a look for a 4-beam relay, and found one in a box of bits I bought from Nige. Plugged it in, problem of lamps not going out solved. The strange thing is, that previously there were two 5-pin relays in the dip and main relay sockets. As Derek said, the system works with either a single pole 4-pin relay, or a double pole 5-pin relay, but not a changeover really in the main beam socket, as was fitted. How did it end up with the wrong relays? No idea. But despite what

Shan says, it wasn't me, I only removed the two changeover relays that were fitted, then put them back.

The only problem I am left with is that when I pull the stalk to flash the lights, the lamps light up, but the pods don't raise. Doh!

Thanks to Sparky and Derek for the help.

Margate Exotics.

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Indeed Travis! A name-check for you too!

I am however still intrigued as to how it all appeared to work before with the wrong relays. And of course it's still not right, with the pods not lifting when I pull the stalk to flash the mains, that remains an unsolved mystery. I'll have another look at the wiring diagram tomorrow. It's annoying to have one problem cured, then end up with another.

Welcome to Lotus ownership?

Margate Exotics.

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Yes, I put it back in after the work I did yesterday, and checked again today.

 

When I pull the stalk back to flash, the lamps illuminate, and the tell-tale on the dash lights up, but pods don't raise.

 

From looking at the diagram, the electrical connection from the stalk to the pods is via a blue and white cable to the pod delay module. I assume the connection then runs from the pod delay to the pod lift module terminal 'A' or 'C', but I'm not sure of that.

Margate Exotics.

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HI Ian, while I don't have the same car like you, mine's an SE 1990, I would look at the dim dip module and it related fuse (if any) It's an UK car feature. Some delete it.

In my service notes (1988-1992)in section MG, page 21, there's mention of a pod control module, extreme left hand side of front luggage compartment, ahead of washer bottle.

Now I really don't know if you have that, but worth looking at.

I take it that you looked at relay E and F, but G is mentioned as a dim dip lift relay. Also worth looking at.

K is the pod delay relay (or module). Worth looking at.

Fuse 14 (5A) is interrior light, door lamps, horn relay and H/L flash.. Surely you should look at that.

fuse 25 and 26 are head lamp lift motors, and 28 and 29 are dim dip lift.

 

Hope it's of any use. At least try to find the equivalent on your model year.

Cheers,

Jacques.

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Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Yes, there's a pod control module and a pod delay module, I already mentioned those. They're sealed units, though.

 

The relay layout on the S4s appears to be a different one than you're describing. The pods lift at every other time, so I can only imagine that the fuses are intact, they are listed as A10 and A11 on my diagram, in the main fusebox.

 

From the diagram, there is a diode in the wire from the stalk to the pod delay module, but in the absence of any other symptoms, I must assume that is intact, but I will see if I can locate it.

 

The pod delay module terminals don't appear to be marked, so instead I will have to check whether there is power on terminal 'A' or 'C' on the pod lift module, when the stalk is pulled to flash.

 

If anyone can explain how the pod delay module, and the pod lift module operate, that would be a great help.

Margate Exotics.

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