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Religion and discrimination of Atheism


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Anyone who pursues creationism in a professional capacity is clearly insane and not fit for public office. 

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All religions are simply a manifestation of the Big Thumb pressing on the back of your neck. They exist purely for the self aggrandisement of those who have elected themselves to the position of Great

Strong religious belief IMHO makes you more "Conservative" in your thinking. Less able to change your view if it is other than what you are told.   I know religious people who, likewise, think that

OK, I can't stand it anymore.  I'm going to chime in on this topic, despite already knowing there are rarely any winners in the end of a religious debate.     First, let's talk about the USA. Having

Brian, your views are always appreciated and here at TLF we talk about stuff that may be controversial, but it's what keeps us different to the rest. We are a Lotus enthusiast site but we are also human and have views on other stuff that we discuss with our friends :)

 

I would also say that any view is encouraged, don't think that if you did believe in God, that we will beat you down and tell you you are wrong. And we are here to ensure it doesn't become controversial and that we can discuss things in a civilised way.

 

I agree with you. As a rare visitor to the US and then on the West Coast where there is a lot less Conservatism in regards to religion, I had never seen the views expressed in the article I posted and it shocked me TBH. I am not against religion in any way, for some it has been a comfort at times of stress and pain, but I can't sign up to it. I think I would rather rely on myself and my friends and family, rather than someone I regard as mythical. Religion had a place back in the dark ages when it helped set peoples ethics and laws and gave them something to live for despite the hunger, disease and wars. But now we have a system of laws outside the church that does that (though I know many are originally based on Church law like "Thou shalt not kill".

 

My worry (and we have seen it before) is that the kind of Conservatism in the "deep south" as you call it, can breed secularism just as much as Sharia law in a Muslim state.

 

It's worrying that in a modern world, religious extremism is on the increase not only in the Muslim world but in the Christian. I thought we were past the crusades.

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Threads on religion always have a guaranteed fun factor associated.  I was brought up on the heavy religious side but was lucky to see the light at an early age - 1977 to be exact. ;-)

Simon  (94 S4)      My Esprit will be for sale in late 2017

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The Bible Belt thing....a late chum of mine was travelling in that general area and was in some bar...being of the musical persuasion he decided to have a bash himself, everyone else was singing stuff.....rather unwisely he launched into Tom Lehrer's "Vatican Rag". Halfway through he realised it wasn't going down too well.........managed to escape with his life, though!

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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A State perspective Vs a Religious one can dull down things like 'right & wrong' vs 'good & evil' fair vs just, true vs believe. I think religion more encourages a moral dimension to the conduct of our lives than merely as law-abiding citizens.

Iain

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I for one would love to see something magical, supernatural, extraterrestrial or omnipotent turn our current understanding of the universe upside-down.  It is just too saddening to think that the current state of humanity is "all the universe has to offer". 

 

That is about as far as I take it though, so label me agnostic instead of atheist I suppose.

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Brian, I agree with most of what you say (in your larger post above), except for the suggestion of removing "evolutionism" from "the textbooks." While I understand that you would simultaneously remove "creationism" from the subjects taught, evolutionary theory (and I think most here are well aware that the term "theory" has a different and specific meaning in the sciences, quite unlike its colloquial usage) is not some single subject to teach or discard. It is firmly routed in all the life sciences, and for that matter in many of the social sciences as well. To completely eliminate its being taught would be tantamount to eviscerating a multitude of subjects. It is, to my mind at least, a "foundational" discipline, almost mathematical in nature, and applies to so much of our world...including the majority of studies that might be pursued in the quest "to get a job." Medicine, biology, even economics (read "business"), among others, are heavily dependent upon a through understanding of its mechanics. 

 

Yes, removing both creationism and evolutionary theory from the curriculum would reduce the ongoing U.S. cultural warfare, but at what cost? It is every person's right to turn away from established science, but that should not mean the dismantling of a hundred years of ever more refined and vindicated knowledge for those who hunger for truth. 

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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Im not well educated in religion but know one thing.....not to believe everything i read in a book !! I believe religion gives people hope at the worst times of there life which is a great thing, but killing your self believing paradise and 1000 virgins are waiting for you on the other side is well.....Wrong on every level

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I think it's "only" 72 virgins by most accounts. Heck, if it were 1,000 I'd probably convert. :lol: 

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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I think it's "only" 72 virgins by most accounts. Heck, if it were 1,000 I'd probably convert. :lol: 

 

72 or 1000, they don't actually stipulate that the virgins in question are of the opposite sex :P

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Jez

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I think therefore I am - Descartes

I'm pink therefore I'm spam - Eric Idle

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Rats. Another perfectly fine fantasy into the dust bin.

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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72 or 1000, they don't actually stipulate that the virgins in question are of the opposite sex :P

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Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8

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Just found this thread and,  for the first time,  exceeded my daily quota on likes.

 

Seems here at TLF we share a common view towards religion. I never understood why people believe in god or an afterlife or what have you. But it is impious that religion makes it so much easier to justify their actions and give complacency to the underprivileged. 

 

Simply said,  THERE IS NO GOD! We are all ourselves responsible for our life here on earth. 

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When my son was born, he was flat. Not flat like a piece of paper (before anyone starts) but flat as in blue, not breathing, no heartbeat.

 

The midwives, and luckily a prenatal nurse who stayed at work due to Liz being in labour and who had become a friend, got Jarryd breathing etc.

 

While they were busy doing all of that, I was sitting beside Liz saying to myself, "Please make him breathe. Please don't let him die."

 

Have you ever had some sort of situation that has been totally out of your control? Something that no matter what you thought or could do, the outcome was out of your control? If you have, try and thing back to what went through your mind.

 

A questions I had to ask myself was 'who was I talking to?' Not the nurses as I didn't say it out loud.

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Religion can be good. Forcing it on others or being violent towards those that don't agree with you is where it goes wrong. The fact that people think religion can 'justify' such actions shows our greatest downfall

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People can believe whatever delusions they wish. Once they start killing others who don't believe in their personal set of delusions, thise they have been told to believe, that's when the trouble starts. Problem is, all their "leaders" command them so to do......

 

Michael...you weren't talking to anyone; just voicing your own hopes....and the nurse did her job....and a tragedy was averted. Hope it all goes well from there!!

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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When my son was born, he was flat. Not flat like a piece of paper (before anyone starts) but flat as in blue, not breathing, no heartbeat.

 

The midwives, and luckily a prenatal nurse who stayed at work due to Liz being in labour and who had become a friend, got Jarryd breathing etc.

 

While they were busy doing all of that, I was sitting beside Liz saying to myself, "Please make him breathe. Please don't let him die."

 

Have you ever had some sort of situation that has been totally out of your control? Something that no matter what you thought or could do, the outcome was out of your control? If you have, try and thing back to what went through your mind.

 

A questions I had to ask myself was 'who was I talking to?' Not the nurses as I didn't say it out loud.

And sadly there will be plenty of other people in the same position saying the same think not having a good outcome.  Luck of the draw and good medical staff.

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I don't believe we all share the "same view". I am sure many people believe in God and their religion, 2 have said so above and I respect that 100%.

 

My point in starting this thread was the discrimination in the USA against Atheists who are open about their belief. I thought Christians were meant to be above that sort of thing but obviously not and it strengthens my resolve not to ever be part of an organised religion.

 

Don't get me wrong. I know many of our laws and social structure comes from religion and in that point it has melded our history and current life. But I think we have outgrown the need for religion and the UK is the perfect example of this with a Majority of Agnostics and Athiests rather than believers.

 

My wife is a logical thinker and likes to look at it this way. We are energy. Our mind works on electrical impulses and the laws of physics state that energy cannot be destroyed, merely converted/changed into another form. As such she believes that when we pass on we go back to our pre-body state which is that of becoming one again with the universe. No religion, no god, just a feasible rationale.

 

I quite like that!

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"Next time around I want to be flying squirrel !!!"

 

I suspect that "virtual life" software ("wetware?") app will be available in the not too distant future...and you won't have to give up your current existence to experience it. 

 

The problem (if it can be termed that) with the concept of reincarnation, as most people define it, is that there is no "continuity" between lives. You can't import or export experiences from one life to the other. A "life" is a "life." You can't "know" you're were Caesar if you're not. If you could move from one to the other at death, then you ought to also be able to do that same thing, whilst still alive, with any other contemporaneous life form as well. You ought to be able to leave your current human life for squirrel life at will, yet this potential does not seem to have any verifiable evidence supporting it. "Present tense morphing" just does not occur. 

 

Which is to say, why should "death" be a requirement for this "magic transformation" at all? Because the whole idea of reincarnation is yet another psychological "need fulfilling" belief system intent on ameliorating the painful realization that you aren't going to live forever. The human mind is very creative in its ability to come up with various schemes (primarily religious) to deny one's ultimate demise. 

 

And even if reincarnation were to be possible, the process (no matter how many times repeated) cannot stave off the ultimate fate of our universe (one of many...perhaps infinite...according to current cosmological theories). When our universe ends, you (whatever "you" might mean at that distant time) cease to exist as well...by definition. 

 

Though it may be a tough idea to wrap one's head around, it may very well be the case that "the universe" has no meaning whatsoever. It just "is." It just "happened" in a primordial moment of quantum fluctuation. The only hope of avoiding our universe's final ending is to find a way to escape ("migrate?") to one of the other universes. And that is still a work in progress for the indefinite future (pun intended).

Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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There may be multiple plains of existence and the 3D version we live in might be one of the most limiting. If so, what do you think the requirements are to graduate?

As an aside, my Mom once told me that when I was very little I asked her, 'when I come back next time, will I be a boy or a girl?' Spooky! We may carry over some of our past life... but if no one bothers to ask I'm sure it fades away very early on.

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