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I despair when I read that an excel has been sacrificed to allow an elite or éclat to have the improvements that made the excel a vastly superior car. I know that the 70's look of the elite appeals to many but I owned one and it was the worst lotus I have ever owned and was close to being the worst car period, only saved from that ignominy by an Hillman imp!.

I had the spyder sport mod to the chassis done and that did make for a vast improvement to the rear axle set up, and a 2.2 lc rebuilt, bottom end balanced and fitted which made the car driveable. but the gearboxes, note the plural, still failed after about  5k.

if you have an elite éclat and want reliability get the spyder  sport chassis fit a reliable gear box if it has the maxi innards and by all means put in another lotus or other engine but please stop butchering excels..

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sorry(!?)   In my case I had the eclat first, I didn't like the reliability, but had got to like the car, not for it's functionality though. My project has been loads of work and it would have been

FAAAAAAAAK OFF!   Were the Hethel Peoples Front!   SPLITTERS!!!!!!!

That car looks like it could have used some expensive Spyder chassis money spent elsewhere, anywhere in fact.   To blame Elite/Eclat owners for the demise of Excels is sheer bloody mindedness, how m

My Elite came with a free Excel which I turned down. you can still see the remnants of it for sale on Ebay. I've just checked howmanyleft.co.uk and there are an equivalent number of Elites and Excels around. The 80's will come back into fashion and these cars will be appreciated again. there may be significantly fewer of them when this happens though.

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it is impossible to use dvla records to differentiate between eclats and excels as so many excel are registered as eclats not even as éclat excels. my car a 88 excel se is registered as éclat. when it comes back from a lotus bits engine rebuild I think that it will be cooler, more reliable and have better performance than any mondeo and better performance than any esprit up to the turbo se.

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It's not a competition :)

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88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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bibs why don't you separate excels into their own section as they have nothing in common with eclats and elites other than the lc engine.

 

 

Because 99% of people can appreciate all the 4 seaters for their individual merits

 

7 posts in and your clashing heads with people Alan. Chill the f out.

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In the garage no-one can hear you scream 

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Guys... "we should be struggling together" [Life of Brian ref there...!]

 

There are not that many people interested enough in these cars to spend their hard earned money on them.

tax'ed in the UK are...

178 Elites

128 éclat excel's

173 éclat

 

only Elite numbers are not still falling which indicates that at least there is a point at which a hard core look after them. Perhaps we should consider an Excel with an Elite body, an Excel for arguments sake!

 

Anyone know the remaining in the world!

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I despair every time I see another (eclat) excel owner going on about how amazing excels are in comparison to elites and eclats, when the truth is that they are not. Attitudes like the above is why I hardly bother venturing on to www.lotusexcelsareamazing.net anymore.

 

Last time I crawled under my eclat excel, it reminded me a lot of my eclat. In fact, it was almost as if Lotus had started with an eclat S2, removed the expensive getrag gearbox, made it less pretty then sprinkled some toyota bits on it..

 

I dont think my eclat excel is a "vastly superior car" to either of my eclats. It is slightly different, but not vastly different, nor superior. It is heavier.

 

The spyder mods have been discussed before. You are the first owner I have heard from that was satisfied with them as fitted by Spyder. Everyone else seemed to think they needed further modifications as the geometry of the upper link and the design was wrong in areas and that it ruined the handling.

 

:secret: (Every now and then I go over to that forum and look for the threads where eclat excel owners complain that their car shouldn't have "eclat" written on the V5 :rtfm: .... it amuses me...) 

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Guys... "we should be struggling together" [Life of Brian ref there...!]

 

 

FAAAAAAAAK OFF!

 

Were the Hethel Peoples Front!   SPLITTERS!!!!!!!

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When I looked at my Elite chassis it reminded me so much of a Europa chassis only back to front!  :huh:

 

 

 

Last time I crawled under my eclat excel, it reminded me a lot of my eclat. In fact, it was almost as if Lotus had started with an eclat S2, removed the expensive getrag gearbox, made it less pretty then sprinkled some toyota bits on it..

 

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I did not introduce mondeos into the thread.

 

No I did. The point I'm making is if you start saying "excels are better than eclats" with the implication being "therefore you should buy an excel not an eclat" and if restoring one, make it an excel not an elite or eclat, assumes you are buying the car for it's performance, using logic. The 1970s/1980s Lotus is not a logic purchase. Otherwise that logic can be extended until we all drive mass produced reliable cars, like Mondeos.

 

Toyota Celica Supra, looks a bit like an excel, same wheels as some of them, way more reliable. You don't hear people go "I hate when a perfectly good Toyota Celica Supra is scrapped for it's W58 to go in a Lotus excel when the supra is vastly superior"

 

Well maybe you do on a Toyota Celica forum(?)

 

A friend of mine has a Nissan 350Z - I have to admit it is a much better performing car all round than an eclat or excel - I can easily afford one, so why don't I buy one? Answer is I don't like it that much, no logic to this, just my personal preference. But I have to admit is is a way better car than an excel or an eclat. The point is the eclat is an illogical purchase based on "I like it" for reasons of my own. If someone's got an excel that is purportedly "vastly superior" I'm pleased for them, but I'm not buying one.

 

Actually just re read your original post - you answer your own question....  To anyone considering modding an eclat or elite chassis: why use an excel chassis and running gear instead of the spyder kit:

 

1 - it's around a TENTH of the price

2 - it directly fits a very good very strong very reliable toyota W58 gearbox, vented disks, superior diff

3 - It doesn't have a geometry problem, being made by LOTUS and not aftermarket = larger R&D budget, but small enough and agile enough to be quick to market - plus research experience that extends to 7 formula 1 titles and a founder who is a near genius in suspension design.

 

Cheers, Mat, (peoples popular front of eclat)

 

What about the popular front of eclat?

 

He's over there......

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The Esprit Peoples Liberation Front has found this thread most enlightening and often amusing, but occasionally distressing. Had no idea that the Excel Underground was engaged in such a fierce chassis war. Awesome.

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Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose.

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one thing that emerges is that to own a classic lotus one has to be slightly mad, I for instance am spending enough on the upgrade of a 912 hc engine to buy a good example of almost any common sports car, ie Porsche 928, boxster,968, and 944, bmw z4, jaguar xk8

and just about any Japanese sportster, an action based on emotion not sense.

I have read before that that the spyder mods to the chassis caused problems but never have I seen a proper measurement of the geometry and where it differed from standard nor a description of the of the resultant problems, ie oversteer , understeer or lack of grip.

I find it very disappointing that a moderator on this forum sees fit to swear whilst lacking the courage to spell out the word he was using, a loose cannon indeed, who does not realise that swearing says a lot about the person using such language.

I joined this forum in 2013 but as a result of the language used I shall not return. 

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A link to a full explanation of one of the problems of the Spyder top link conversion is here:

 

http://home2.btconnect.com/lotus/suspension_design_issues.htm

 

This chap thought so highly of it after spending a few thousand pounds, that he converted it back to standard.

 

Sometimes people don't type things expressively, and they come across differently to how they intended them to. If you take the time to review your posts above, you'll hopefully see that to others reading them, it appeared you came on here with a bit of attitude, sneered a bit at owners of other Lotus models, said your car was "vastly superior" and told people what they were doing was wrong in using excel chassis's on elites and eclats, before getting picked up on it by a Moderator, whose job it is to try and ensure some harmony on here.

 

You then decide to counter his admonishment by saying a mod wrote a swear word (which in truth he didn't....) and your saying that because of supposed bad language on this forum, your not inclined to come back, .

 

One of the issues with one model forums, is that years of self congratulatory discussion all centre around one specific model of car and how fantastic it is, and all the posters whip themselves into a smug sense of superiority and when venturing elsewhere, forget their manners when discussing other cars.

 

I found your posts to be out of step with what I expect to find on this forum. A mod picked you up for it - deal with it.

 

TLF is all encompassing. Everyone is welcome, Lotus owners or not, and most people on here are friendly and get along just fine. However it is a moderated forum and when posters antagonise others, they get chided for it. Everyone else seems to be able to play within the rules, and I'm struggling to remember a thread like this one on here.. It's certainly the first response to a new poster that I have made in thousands of posts that has been less than my usual freindly welcome in the hope that the poster will stay. You can't argue with the poster numbers of TLF, or is everyone out of step bar you?

 

Lotusexcelsareamazing.net is that way --->

 

Dunc

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Sorry chaps, I don't understand you. I own both of it and both have their specific problems ( and each time I wonder why there is said, the Toyo-diff is bullet proof cause I only know leaking diffs...)

I like both cars. Although they look the same, they are pretty much different in the driving and comfort zone. Both have their right to be there.fullstop.

Everytime an Excel is wrecked for an Éclat my heart is bleeding. I remember last year when I was at Lotusbits, Mike introduced a colleague for whom he has freshly done the chassi swap. The owner smiled over all cheeks but I couldn't helped it... Standing with my Excel just in front of him...

I haven't still find out what the problem is between the two boards and their owners but obviously there is no real reason to be angry when both supporters tell about the things they do love.... Their toys, their cars. Everytime, everywhere the same problem between adults when it comes to cheating about the toy of the other... I cannot understand it.

The cars are different, the behaviour of the owners is not. Both parties could learn so much from each other... But sometimes it has to be the harder way... I know...

Shame.

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Hi Don,

 

Good points, I suppose we should just think of them as eclat S1 S2 and S3 instead of "eclat excel" or "excel" then it becomes apparent that it really isn't an issue between the cars. The S2 has lots of improvements over the S1, better gearbox, galvanised chassis, better boot lock, nicer dash, electric headlight pods and some styling changes, front spoiler, bootlid sills etc. The "S3" has further improvements, even better gearbox, rear suspension problem fixed, brakes improved to vernted disk etc. And a lot of styling changes, the biggest being the window surrounds not being aluminium, and C pillar much thicker.

 

By that logic you would then call the excel SE or the widebody excel the "S4" with even more improvements, better dash, 180bhp engine, variable rate power steering, styling changes.

 

So then the question is do you "dispair" if someone fits an S2 galvanised chassis to an S1? Do you dispair if someone fits a really late excel chassis to an earlier eclat excel? And then extrapolate that to an excel chassis fitted to an eclat is an "S4" to an "S2" or "S1" and we can all live happily ever after(?)

 

Mat.

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No anger here, just a preference for TLF where other Lotus owners are a little less negative about the older 2+2. I also think because TLF includes all lotus models, there is greater acceptance of the older cars for what they are, and a higher % of owners who work on their own cars rather than booking their car into garages, which creates more knowledgable info sharing and less in the way of "bar room experts" who might as we'll be playing top trumps.

I got a bit bored of the other place with people posting about how their excel can hold its own against TVR Griffith 500's etc

I have no issues with the majority of owners on the other place, but I chose to spend my time almost exclusively on TLF because it's a friendlier home for elite and éclat discussion. I'd prefer not to have this forum become a "my cars better than yours because it is newer..." Discussion forum.

Peace and love to all.

The Hethel people's front

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Mat: yes, I have ever since thought about it: why doesn´t Lotus have sticked to the very own nomenclature with S1-S4 or even S5 for the MY89? This should haven been even easier to discuss the same type approval... Yes, this is exactly the Series of the 70-90 4seater look like for me.

 

"dispair" is not the right term for me... but sad. I am in the very same situation. I will get back my Riviera on the tarmac in a nice state. Not as brilliant like the timewarp-Riviera or even the white S2 from Mark. But in that impact distance... ;)  For this, I have to decide whether to use some Type 89 parts and make them "fit" or look for some parts which are like hence teeth and have to wait a long time...

 

I am just sitting beside a cover which I have to ruin to make it fit and my hands are shuddering... cause another chap would spring from one leg to the other if he could get this in this very good state.... in a heal state. 

 

Better would be to tear the Mondeo apart and take his chassi  :D but they aren´t that brilliant aren´t they? ;) I would love to see all S1-S4 on the street and every breaking of it, is a never come back loss, although we all benefit from the parts... and some colleagues make they profit with it...

 

I guess, I am too romantic and too sentimental  :cry:

 

 

Dunc: I can only speak from my personal experience with some meetings of "the others" : I only know very nice and competent members and the most of them (which Lotus driver is not?) are DIY / home improvers. And... like most of us... many have more than one car in the fleet and/or experience with more than one model.

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 Where are you from.... Nose city... big nose! :harhar:

 

that does it... I'm going to spend this wet afternoon watching that film again... before the "Evora suicide squad" turns up! - that'll show them!

 

 

The Esprit Peoples Liberation Front has found this thread most enlightening and often amusing, but occasionally distressing. Had no idea that the Excel Underground was engaged in such a fierce chassis war. Awesome.

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