destroying excels

[Loose Cannon 582]

That car looks like it could have used some expensive Spyder chassis money spent elsewhere, anywhere in fact.

 

To blame Elite/Eclat owners for the demise of Excels is sheer bloody mindedness, how many such conversions actually exist? A couple of dozen? More likely is as soon as some raggy-arsed Excel appears on Ebay (beyond someone else's idea of economical repair) it gets broken and the engine is removed, along with other trinkets which quite often end up ON ANOTHER EXCEL! Does that offend? The dessicant corpse is of no use to anyone after that, hardly even the scrap man.

 

So, the inference is that Elite/Eclat owners should shamefully spurn a readily available £250 chassis from the skeletal remains of any Excel that has already been picked over. They should then seek out a company hundreds of miles away and spend many times that amount on an a piece of engineering which receives mixed reviews, not to mention transport costs to and fro. The sacred Excel chassis can then journey untouched to Excel heaven via the scrappie.

[Advantage 910]

Been meaning to read this thread since it popped up the other day. It seems it's just a (poorly conceived) rant. Pity, as I wondered if it was anything to do with the chaps at Top Gear.

 

 

[Iconic Ride 267]

 Where are you from.... Nose city... big nose!

 

that does it... I'm going to spend this wet afternoon watching that film again... before the "Evora suicide squad" turns up! - that'll show them!

 

Not an issue, Mike. The Esprit Peoples Liberation Front has long since reduced the "Evora suicide squad" to cowering jelly pools. They'll not likely be a threat to your viewing pleasure. 

 

And their clamshell boot, when lined with a suitable bean bag chair cushion, makes for a quite comfortable lounger for proper telly watching.  

[alanbell 1]

I did say that I would not return to this forum however I have two questions before I disappear forever,

 loose cannon some what diminished the role of moderator when he wrote "alan chill the f out".

dunc wrote that this was not swearing, perhaps one of these people will tell me what the "f" in loose cannon's exhortation represents if not the most vulgar swear word in common, in every sense of the word, usage.

if the excel is not the better car why do so many owners of elites and excels want to put its chassis and mechanicals into their cars?.

finally I stand by my opinion that the elite I owned  some thirty years ago was the second worst of the fifty odd cars I have owned, the best were a 65 elan gts that was raced in period, an m100 and the excel, and if that upsets some people so be it.

[GerardJPC 29]

I found Lotus Excel net rather cliquey and unfriendly.   I have owned five Lotuses (a Europa Special, a Europa Twin Cam, an Elan Plus 2, an Excel SE and now an Eclat 2.2 - my inevitable date of doom with a Turbo Esprit still lies in the future), and have driven a few Elises and Caterhams.  My early impressions of the Eclat are that it feels more nimble than the heavier Excel, and I prefer the more angular looks, but the Excel is undoubtedly a good car.  I am not a stickler for originality, and agree that cars are just cars, and owners can do what they like with them, although I wouldn't myself blend two Lotus models into one, but that's just a personal thing. 

[mat grant 29]

Brian, tell us what to do oh great leader.....

 

Why don't you all just f*** off and leave me alone!!!!

 

How shall we f*** off my lord???

[mikeeech 349]

oh we're on that again... Personally I would love an excel - speaking as an elite owner.

 

I'd follow the gourd BTW.

[Dunc 412]

Alan,

That's another insult thrown at Elites and Eclats which is one too many....

You've written a few cheques to Mike Taylor for a fancy 2.5 litre engine?

As secretary of the Lotus Elite and Eclat register, for insulting older lotus 2+2's, I challenge you and you "far superior" and extensively modified excel to a duel.

My éclat S2 vs your Excel on the same drag strip, best of 3 runs, fastest individual 1/4 mile wins.

the stake is £250 to be donated by the loser to help for heroes.

Let me know when.

[mat grant 29]

Nice one Dunc, now you're talking!!! And raise money for a good cause.

 

I'd like to be there when it happens. Ideally I'd like to bring mine when it is running. But only when I've finished flagellating myself for "destroying" not only the vastly superior excel but also the even more vastly superior than that Toyota Soarer V8......

 

Just as long as no one swears - I hate that

[mat grant 29]

oh we're on that again... Personally I would love an excel - speaking as an elite owner.

 

I'd follow the gourd BTW.

 

I just couldn't be bothered with rational argument, as the OP didn't understand it the first time

[Loose Cannon 582]

Oh Alan, change the bloody record (am I allowed to say bloody? You do in your topic titles).

 

Truth be told when I saw you had migrated here from the Excel forum my heart sank, hence the exasperated tone of my initial post. True to what I have observed on that site your posts here are immediately full of antagonism, belligerence and intolerance towards people who you profess to share a common interest with. Then you act all high and mighty by seizing on the slightest issue in their counter argument to try and mask your lack of objectivity and aggression. Goodness help anyone you don't actually like.

 

Your diva like curtain call today also recalls another charming trait, that of brooding resentment. Remember your entire thread criticising a 7 year old Excel member poll about technical topics being rubbish? That was a tea-spitter. Sitting on the sidelines goading people without adding anything positive is too easy.

 

You have inexplicably failed to take on board anyone else's reasoning to help you answer your own embarrassingly simple question, as to why people think using chassis from scrapped Excels to use under earlier cars is the best compromise. Has the fact you see no Excel bodies placed on Elite chassis not given a clue?

 

Good luck with your project Alan, it will obviously be the best car on the planet after your bezzie mates at Lotusbits, who recommend the Excel chassis as an upgrade to Elite/Eclat owners and have carried out several themselves, have finished. No doubt you will have the courage of your own conviction to badger them to death with the same inane logic you display here, and berate them for helping hundreds of 4-seater owners worldwide by "sacrificing" Excels (including a rare SA to give you your differential perhaps? Presumably the SA carried a Donor Card and had previously given its consent)

 

Goodbye Alan, mind the door doesn't hit your arse on the way out

 

  Ohh another coin in the swearbox

 

[Dunc 412]

 "Has the fact you see no Excel bodies placed on Elite chassis not given a clue?"

 

Actually, I am thinking of doing that with mine.

 

my rationale for doing this:

 

1) It adds lightness to the excel.

 

2) It would REALLY annoy Alan.

 

3) I could then offer the existing excel chassis to someone else to save another elite/eclat with a rusty chassis.

[Mark Blanchard 1,707]

Wow, here's an Excel that would make a great platform for a nice Eclat.  Awesome!!

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LOTUS-ECLAT-EXCEL-1987-RED-/231360254997?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item35de255415

[alanbell 1]

loose cannon, buy a dictionary then you may be able to express your self without swearing, by the way you have not said what the "f" means. goodbye.

Edited October 16, 2014 by alanbell

[Dunc 412]

Alan,

Can I suggest that if your not going to respond to my post from 8:24pm last night, that it would be a nice gesture of reconciliation to everyone on here if you were to make a small donation (perhaps a tenner) to Help for Heroes, as a small penance for insulting elite's and eclat's on this forum.

 

If you do, I for one will be happy to shake your hand next time I see you.

[mat grant 29]

The "f" in any such phrases is deliberately ambiguous, it can stand for: flip, frick, frigg etc, the inference is by the reader and the context.

 

So no actual swear word has been said or stated, merely inferred by the reader.

 

I don't see why Mark has to justify his comment, he's not the only moderator, if others see it as unacceptable it would have been removed.

 

See you on the excel.net forum! I like that forum and there are some good people on there. I can't use it at work because it is blocked by my work browser as it has a rude word in the title. Otherwise I would probably go on there more often.

 

Mat.

[alanbell 1]

dunc, I will not subject a new and expensive engine to the stresses involved in a drag race,  quite simply I could not afford another rebuild.  for reasons that are private I already support help for heroes when I can. 

[Dunc 412]

Good. I'm glad to hear you are a supporter of a worthy cause.

 

Are you going to support them with a further tenner as penance for insulting the cars on our register? Or just not bother?

[mat grant 29]

well obviously run it in first(!)

 

IMO - engines should be "thrashable" within tolerances, ie temps and oil changes, max revs respected regular service and fluid changes etc. But they should be robust enough to take heavy use to the boundary of their performance subject to service intervals. you shouldn't have to "baby" them. Get a modern Ford/BMW/Audi for example and you can thrash it for a very long time before something breaks. Or my Honda fireblade - thrashed as often as possible, unbreakable...... The Honda fireblade engine is therefore a good one in my book.

 

That is the same logic that took me to the Toyota 1UZ engine for my car - cost me £400 inc electrics and ancillaries. 260-280 bhp as standard. People run them at 500-800 bhp and they are still very reliable. And it's non-interference. People can slag off putting a V8 in if they want, but if it does break, a replacement is about £400 on ebay. Also does about 30mpg in a light car. In fact i currently have a non MOT but running Toyota Soarer that cost me £350, I'm planning to break it, keep the engine and a few other bits as spares then sell the rest of it to get my money back so it will be free spares.

 

I considered a second hand or rebuilt 907 or 912 engine, too expensive, too risky and less power than a 1uz.

 

So I can thrash the car as much as I want without worry. To me if an engine is fragile that's not a good thing.... I know it's Chapmans creed that a race car should fall to pieces as it crosses the line or it's too well built and therefore too heavy. But for a road car this doesn't follow for me. And if you're a relative of Jim Clark it probably doesn't sit well either.

 

I just daren't go on the Soarer forum and hear about how I've sacrificed a perfectly good Soarer V8 to put the engine in a rubbish old Lotus.

 

Mat.

[Advantage 910]

Just as a polite note - I'm getting increasingly tired with this thread as it doesn't show TLF in a particularly good light. Let's face it, there are twelve year old children with greater debating acumen and decorum.

 

If the standard of civility doesn't take a marked turn for the better then this thread will be locked and possibly even deleted altogether depending on how belligerent I'm feeling. Your call guys and girls.

[Dunc 412]

I agree and vote for deletion.

 

There is no useful information in this thread that warrants its retention.

[esprit s2 94]

Deletion would be my preference too.

[Don.Hasi 65]

"There is still good in him" in the thread There are also some very good points in it beside the political notes...

 

Deletion wont help and doesnt bring transparency....

 

So, closed it at the maximum of handling issues. In the best case it could be kept open if gents are talking gently...

[mat grant 29]

I thought I was being quite polite(?)

 

I'd vote for locking it as it appears to be a bit "troll-esque" if that's a word, but not deletion.

 

In fact this is the only line I've found even remotely offensive:

 

"there are twelve year old children with greater debating acumen and decorum."

 

Mat.

Edited October 16, 2014 by mat grant

[Guest saraphee]

Close it - I'm getting bored now.....................