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oops...mayonaise....


gvy

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question 1

Before , I had the old original cast exhaust manifold.

I pulled the engine and replaced it , with that exhaust manifold bolted on, simply because it is really difficult to do that in situ.

 

Now the new SJ stainess steel 4 in 1 manifold is way bigger, so I think it can not get the engine in with the manifold already bolted on.

Or can I .

Anyone has done that before and give advice?

 

question 2

And I have a second (stupid) question.

Where does the alternator mount go? Position 1 , 2 or 3 ?

I can not find a foto and it is not in the manual....

 

IMG_20140929_162610_zps37009daa.jpg

Geert

Edited by gvy
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Something is worrying...

 

Look at the pictures

The gasket and head are kept in place because of the 2 dowelpins.

Also If I look around the perimeter, the gasket sits exact in place.

But If I look closely at te place where the oil channel passes, I can see the rubber perimeter ring in the gasket extent the block and head. That bow in the gasket has just a slightly bigger diameter than the head and block.

Now the green rubber ring around the oil passage sits in the right place. It is just the perimeter ring to prevent water to get out extents the head and block on that spot....

 

 

IMG_20140930_211119_zpsbe0b87d2.jpg

 

IMG_20140928_142303_zpsc371a7dd.jpg

 

IMG_20140928_142836_zpsdcfdc48c.jpg

Edited by gvy
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Oh no John,

 

The engine is ready to go in, as you can read above

Everything is closed and controlled : all moments  belttension,static ignition timing, valve clearances etc...

I saw the above, while checking around one last time. And with the goetze gasket it is what it is ..... The gasket is sitting in place as it is supposed to be. In my opinion it is a fault in the design of the gaskets.

I dont think it will give trouble, because on the same place sits the green rubber ring around the oil channel.

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  • Gold FFM

I had a similar exhaust to your fitted on my S3 and it had to be removed to take the engine in or out, there was no way it could be fitted with the mainifold on the engine.

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hello geert,

 

looks good your engine.

 

just a short note:

when I overhauld my engine, two lotus experts strongly recommended to change the automatic timing belt tensioner versus the manual version (see long red arrow on picture). it is this simple excenter spindle which you can order at sj. this system is more reliable.

it is more important to check the belt tension when the engine is warm. also the frequency method should be mesured on the longest straight of the belt (short red arrow), i guess you measured on the shorter upper side, which should be used for mechanical tension measurement like shown in the manual.

 

 

regards lutz

 

post-13355-0-72390600-1412175611.jpg

 

 

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Hoy Lutz,

 

I have other information regarding the frequency measurement.

First I have to say , this frequency procedure was for the later round teethed belts, but I used it 4 years ago on my S2.2 with trapedozial teethed belt and it has been OK . Never had any problems with the timing belt, so I use it again today with the new installed belt.

Measurement must be done with cold engine

Engine in 30 BTDC position

Measurement done with microphone on the part of the belt between AUX pulley and inlet cam pulley.

 

This is what Tim Engel said about it : I quote him :

 

Edit... late addition: The frequency response method was specified for the round-tooth HTD timing belt, and Lotus never developed or published a similar spec for the old trapezoidal belt. Frequency response is a function of mass and stiffness, and the trapezoidal belt is both lighter and less stiff than the HTD belt. It's reasonable to expect that the trapezoidal belt will require less tension in the belt for any given frequency response, but how much less I don't know. But I do expect that using the frequency spec on the trapezoidal belt will result in a lower tension than you might be anticipating.

If your software, like TuneIt, allows for set-up changes, narrow the spectrum range to just a little more than the target range. You're shooting for 100-110 Hz, so limit the range to something like 80-130 Hz. For our purpose, everything else is just noise, and eliminating it will produce a cleaner, more repeatable reading.

1) All timing belt tension readings are to be taken midway between the auxiliary & inlet cam pulleys.

2) Cold engine, before it's started for the first time that day. Do NOT attempt to tension the belt on a hot engine.

3) 15° - 25° C (59° - 77° F) ambient temperature

4) Rotate the engine through two complete revolutions.

5) Set the crankshaft to 30° BTDC (NOT to the 0° TDC of the old Borroughs spec). As you approach 30° BTDC, stop without backing up in the least (ie, stop with full tension in the belt). This is where a lot of repeatability errors creep in. At 30° BTDC, the cam pulley timing dots should be toward the center, but NOT aligned... they only align at TDC.

6) Hold the frequency meter/ microphone near the timing belt, midway between the intake and auxilliary. Aim the mic at the belt, and get it reasonably close to the belt. It doesn't have to be "right on it", but certainly less than an inch away. Your meter will tell you what it needs... it will respond or it won't. Certainly not just vaguely in the neighborhood and aimed somewhere else.

7) Tap the belt with a suitable tool (eg, screwdriver), midway between the intake and auxilliary pulleys, sharply but only hard enough to provoke a clear reading on your meter, PC or phone. Harder isn't better once you get a clear reading, but it does risk disturbing the belt's tension. Similarly, don't pluck the belt like a guitar string for fear of disturbing the belt's tension.

8) The frequency response should be 100-110 Hz, COLD. Unofficially, 112 Hz for a new belt being tensioned for the first time, in order to compensate for initial stretch.

9) If necessary, slacken the tensioner clamp bolt and turn the eccentric hub as required to adjust the bleet tension (turn counter-clockwise to increase the tension). Tighten the clamp nut to 34-41 Nm. Rotate the crankshaft through 720° clockwise and re-check the belt's tension.

10) After fitting a NEW cam belt, which may be prone to some initial stretch, it is advisable to re-check the tension at 500 mile intervals until the tension is seen to stabilize.

Regardless of the tension measuring method used (Borroughs or frequency), the Gates Racing Blue timing belts seem to whine at the spec tension. I'm not comfortable just loosening the tension until the belt stops whining, sometimes as low as 80 Borroughs, but conventional wisdom says a belt that whines is too tight. I think we need to gain more experience with the blue belts, but until then, I'm more comfortable with a light whine than I am with a way low tension number... just my humble opinion.

Regards,
Tim Engel

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi did you check the end float on the crank and do the 2.2 thrust lubrication mod as per the manual ?

 

Matt

Let me know If you have a S1 esprit for sale 🙂

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Matt,

 

I am not sure what you mean ( could be a language shortcoming of me)

I did place a nytralon washer  at the end of the drive shaft.Is that what you say?

 

Please inform me about the lubrication mod?

 

Geert

Edited by gvy
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  • Gold FFM

Hi Geert, what Matt means is when you rebuilt the engine, did you check the amount of movement on the crankshaft from back to front, there is a set tollerance and this is known as end float.

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Also there is a modification to the main bearing cap...this should clarify....

 

Crankshaft end float should lie between 0.08mm and 0.20 mm; the wear limit is 0.30mm. It is set by selecting the correct thickness thrust washer.

post-568-0-17017300-1413289182.jpg

post-568-0-58068500-1413289213.jpg

post-568-0-56201600-1413289242.jpg

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Ah,

Thank you for the explanation.

I did not.

As I described, I only revised the head including port matching , new timing belt and valve settings , renewed the complete clutch, repaired a gearbox leak and installed a new SS exhaust system.

The latter does not fit yet.

 

I opened the oilpan, to inspect and clean out the oil/water mess ( and because i wanted to see and learn ) but I did not touch the crankshaft, bearing shells an other engine block stuff... so no complete engine revision.

I was not aware of the above mods.

 

Geert

Edited by gvy
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Hi Geert

 

I would defiantly check this mod has been carried out and measure your crank end float, I have rebuild a lot of early 2.2 engines because of this problem. The damage it does to the block and crank is comprehensive, and takes less than 30k to do the damage.

Also on some engines the mod has been carried out as part of the recall and then the engine gets rebuilt without a notched bearing being fitted ! then the damage occurs again. 

 

The S1 and S2 manual covers the 2.2 engine but does not mention the mod, only the S3 manual includes the information needed.

 

 

Post back here your findings

 

This is what your looking for

IMG_5231.jpg

 

I would Also check the outer thrust flange (flywheel end) for cracks if you have had more that 15 thou end float.

IMG_5234.jpg

 

You have made such a great job on the top end of your engine, It would be a shame to see it all go to waste

Matt

  • Like 1

Let me know If you have a S1 esprit for sale 🙂

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Matt,

Thank you so much for the information.

With the pics it is clear.This is really helpfull.

 

However, I have mounted the engine in the car last week. All electric cables,fuel and other lines are connected and last weekend, I filled it up with all fluids ( oil, gearbox oil and coolant),I still have to connect and get air out of the clutch slave cilinder

I am waithing for parts to modify and finish the currently non fitting new exhaust system.

So If all is good, which I can only be sure after starting the car, doing the mod in this stadium is not an option.

 

Geert

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Ah OK your progress is very fast well done :)

 

I still would watch to see if the flywheel moves in and out on tick over through the timing hole in the top of the bell housing, if you can see it I would measure it !  if you need and help measuring it in the car just message me

 

Matt

Let me know If you have a S1 esprit for sale 🙂

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Yeah back off the clutch thrust bearing adjuster to eliminate any interference, dial gauge on the front pulley, someone  with a small lever  pulling the flywheel towards the gearbox then in turn some one with a large screwdriver pulling the pulley away from the engine and watching for error on the dial gauge. repeat as necessary......   Have seen them so bad you can see the flywheel moving in and out as they tick over !

 

Normally by that stage both block and crank are scrap

 

Matt

Let me know If you have a S1 esprit for sale 🙂

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Is this an inevitable issue? I have 80 k on mine, engine number wise I am in the danger zone but have not noticed any excessive float either when dynamic timing so staring at the flywheel, or cam belt changes.

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While waiting for some exhaust parts, I decided to crank the engine to let the oil go around a bit.

 

So sparkplugs out, fuelpump disconnected,no coil connected.

 

Before the engine works started, all old oil has been drained, sump cleaned out , old oil blown out of oil radiator etc.

 

After reinstall the system is filled with 6l shell helix ultra 10W-60 full synthetic oil and I have installed a new oilfilter purflux LS149 (filled before install).

After crancking the oil level stabilized at the top mark of the oilstick. (before it was higher ), so this shows that now the oilradiator and so on are filled up I guess.

 

Now because the engine was out , the plastic oilpipe to the gauge in the dashboard was of course also disconnected and reconnected.

I did not touch the oilpump and the oilpressure has always been ok.

 

Is it normal that while cranking, the oilpressuregauge is not moving?

I think it is because the engine cranks with the starter at very low rpm and just for a short time.

 

Geert

Edited by gvy
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After an oil & filter change it takes quite a few seconds after restarting for the pressure to build up with it running at 1000 RPM so a few seconds of cranking on the starter motor isn't going to show anything.

I know it's worrying but I'm sure it will be fine :o

Cheers,

John W

http://jonwatkins.co.uk

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I have NEVER managed to get any indicated oil pressure by cranking on the starter motor...plugs in or out. After engine work with the engine out of the car I always ensure the oilways and bearings are primed... I do this before fitting the cambelt. I fill the sump, and then using a cut down allen key in and electric drill I rotate the auxiliary pulley and thus the oil pump. This provides a good rate of rotation and pumps the oil around the system...I have the blanking plugs out of the oil ways so I can see the oil getting around...stop pumping when it flows out and replace the blanking plugs. Once the oil pressure builds in the bearings you can feel the effort required to pump increase and the drill RPM goes down...and there you are, with a fully primed oil system ready to go straight back in the car for a first start.....once the cambelt has been fitted and the timing checked.  Always works for me....of course, the bearings have been lubed with Graphogen first and the piston/liners with engine oil...and the valve system too....

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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