Lots of clicks but no roar!

[esprit17]

Hi Guys,

 

Any ideas on what is causing my car not to start ?

 

The battery is fully charged, the pumps prime but when I try and start the car there is just a loud clicking noise.

My guess is its a faulty starter motor but before I start stripping  the plenum (for the first time) I just want to hear that this is the most likely culprit and maybe some tips to help confirm the diagnoses. PS I've been through all the threads in the forum and none describe my symptoms which is a bit concerning!

 

Any ideas advise would be appreciated as I’ve just brought the car over to Paris, France and at this stage don’t know anyone with a V8 or good garage so need to sort it myself if possible.

 

thanks

[ramjet]

When you say 'just a loud clicking', I presume the engine is not even turning over?

 

If not, it could be the starter solenoid not pulling in properly.

Battery possibly dropped a cell which pulls the solenoid in, but does not have enough oomph to turn the engine over.

 

Easy checks to do. The solenoid can be bypassed with a screw driver which may go to eliminating the battery and proving the solenoid is shot.

 

The battery can be put under a load test by any garage or road service company to see if it has failed.

[Sparky]

Engine properly earthed?

[jonwat]

Hi Guys,

 

Any ideas on what is causing my car not to start ?

 

The battery is fully charged, 

 

You've confirmed the voltage then??

[esprit17]

Thanks Michael, yes the engine does not turn. I will check the battery but normally if the battery is low I get the headlights doing their pop up thing just after the engine starts. I have not had this in the last two weeks of use and the car was running for 10mins before I tried to restart it. It's just strange that I had no problems before in the 50+ starts I!ve had in the last two weeks.

You make reference to the solenoid being bypassed with a screw driver is this possible with the v8 as it's buried in the centre of the V?

Just thinking could it be a relay issue, the one that's in the boot. If this is possible what's the best way to check apart from listening to hear if it activates when turning the ignition?

Thanks

Sorry john / Gary in the time it took me to complete my last post I did see your thoughts

I'll check the earthing straps and take a battery reading tonight when I get back home and post tonight

Cheers

[ramjet]

Ah you may not be able to access the back of the solenoid. I am not aware of the V8 layout.

Test the battery 2 ways. With no load and see what you get.

Then also test the battery voltage with as much of the electrics on as you can. Report back what the voltage does under load.

[esprit17]

I had left the battery on trickle charge as I usually do, disconnected and measured the voltage 12.43V. I tried to start it and the same clicking noise happened. So switch on all electrically items, all lights, fan and radio. The voltage dropped to 11.65 then over the space of a minute the battery recovered to 11.78V.

So I left it for another minute or two as I got my iPad to record he sound , see attached.

I tried to start the car and clicking was there then roar the engine came alive..

I will try it again tonight as I had visitors last night and couldn't be seen to be messing around with the bloody car. Nice quote from my good lady.

It would be good to know if anyone recognises the clicking sound and confirm that it's the Starter motor. Also whether you think the battery is performing based on the readings above.

[ramjet]

That's the solenoid not pulling in properly. It jumped a couple of times and then pulled in. That's when the engine started. They are generally able to be pulled apart and cleaned up. Check that all leads going to the solenoid are tight first. I would take all the wiring off first, clean everything up and retighten. Try that and see what happens. If you still get clicking, even if it is only occasionally, you want to try and get the solenoid off, open it up and see if it can be cleaned up.

Could simply be dirt stopping it pulling right in or an arcing contact which can prevent the solenoid pulling right in.

If it's damaged internally, better off getting a new one.

 

Based on the voltages you reported while you had the battery under load, it is fine. Proven also by how quickly the engine turned over and fired up once the starter engaged.

[Simon350S]

I'd do what sparky said and check your engine earth first.

Run a jump lead directly from the battery negative to the engine block somewhere and try again.

[Günter]

earth, as said .. other point is: 

voltage on the battery system drops not only if the the battery (or a single cell)  is being 'flat'

-more or less any bad contact in the startersolenoid & carbon contacts on the armature (on the back of the startermotor) cause a drop in battery power .. what means the magnetic effect of the solenoid is interrupted as soon as it needs to work harder on pulling the motor gear into the starter ring on the flywheel and in the same time close the 'main power' (positive line) on the E-motor in the starter.

 

If it does not help to check the earth contact just undo the plenum and undo the starter

*it's two wires an two screws for the mounting flange on the rear of the engine (-undo battery main port before anything else!)

 

you can separate the E-motor from the gearing, and if you do so ..check the carbon brush arangement ..  see the V8 parts reference, my post about the Mitsubishi equivalent of the carbon brush plate .. it's a *plug & play* for about 8€    -compare that with 400€ for the starter  ..!!

 

If you find that the copper/brass contact ring on the solenoid (inside) is shread -ou can get those as replacements as well, or simply refabricate your own contacts and fit them into it.

[esprit17]

earth, as said .. other point is: 

voltage on the battery system drops not only if the the battery (or a single cell)  is being 'flat'

-more or less any bad contact in the startersolenoid & carbon contacts on the armature (on the back of the startermotor) cause a drop in battery power .. what means the magnetic effect of the solenoid is interrupted as soon as it needs to work harder on pulling the motor gear into the starter ring on the flywheel and in the same time close the 'main power' (positive line) on the E-motor in the starter.

 

If it does not help to check the earth contact just undo the plenum and undo the starter

*it's two wires an two screws for the mounting flange on the rear of the engine (-undo battery main port before anything else!)

 

you can separate the E-motor from the gearing, and if you do so ..check the carbon brush arangement ..  see the V8 parts reference, my post about the Mitsubishi equivalent of the carbon brush plate .. it's a *plug & play* for about 8€    -compare that with 400€ for the starter  ..!!

 

If you find that the copper/brass contact ring on the solenoid (inside) is shread -ou can get those as replacements as well, or simply refabricate your own contacts and fit them into it.

Thanks Gunter for the additional pointers, its a job for weekend as I need to get to the bottom of it as the car has started every time since. I just need to gain confidence in the car and stop sitting there with everything crossed hoping it's going to start!!

[Günter]

As long as there is someone to push the car it will start with key in *ignition* as well

 

..or at least this is what I've done several times on trackdays.

 

If you are alone 'out in the woods'  -OK,that is a problem ! ..right

[Simon350S]

Don't turn the engine off unless you're on a hill!

[Günter]

hahaaaa   ..

 

Now we're talkin! 

 

Steve -see this   ..it illustrates the main princip for you

 

 

top corner (green field)     ..there you have 'Batterie+ '   & 'Anlasser' (means starter)    

• this is the positive line directly from your battery terminal. The yellow/black contact is massive (as in reality) and stands for the contacts where all the *ouupp* and Amp goes directly to power up the E-motor in the starter. Think you know that for example on bigger engines the kW rating for the power output of a starter is up to several kW alone for this one aim, to turn the crankshaft as fast as it needs for the ECM to find position signals and pulses to fire the engine up right and steady   ..

 

The ECM of the Lotus918 engine is not a good one in this, as on most -not to say all of our engines even with a starter gear already in match it needs some moments to crank until it fires. 

 

Anyway  ..the other parts you can see there in the picture next to the coils of this *solenoid* are there to illustrate the mechanical link (a magnetic powered lever) to push/pull the final gear into the starter ring on the flywheel.

 

End of lecture for today

[esprit17]

Hi all,

 

Just a little update, the problem has not reappeared since I fitted a trickle charger so I'm guessing that the battery just was not kicking out the amps to wake the car from it's slumber.

£25 trickle charger is probably the cheapest fix I've had for this car!

Anyway thanks for the support