Values

[Projectblue]

I thought I'd put this topic on, even though its always contentious. Owners always want to see their vehicles valued as highly as possible whilst prospective buyers like myself want to see them at the other end.

I can only speak for the V8's, because that's what I've been researching, but there seems to be a case of wishful thinking by a lot of dealers. There are a number of cars out there that have been up for sale for ages. One in particular for probably nearly a year since I started looking!

It may simply be a case of me not being used to the Esprit market, and that the 'normal' aspects of car selling/buying don't apply. Or is it that they are hanging on speculating that prices are going to rise? Is it a case of there is more room for negotiation on an Esprit than a standard car?

Interested to hear views on this.

[Loose Cannon]

Always worth haggle. Must admit that I struggle mentally with Esprits priced at 30k or more unless they are exceptional/ultra low mileage or an extremely rare model. An example of that would be a no expense spared "better than new" S1, an ultra original Essex, or a mint S350/Final Edition.

 

It's a sad fact of life that good Esprits are much thinner on the ground than only 5 or 6 years ago. If the worst happened my insurance valuation may be £18k but even with that in hand I would expect to look around for a year or two to find as good a car for the same money. And the same money would get me bugger all outside of Lotus land, a shitey old Renault Alpine perhaps, or a dog of a DB7

[arbell9]

I sold mine recently and I got more for it than when I bought it 8 years previously. That's pretty good in my opinion. High values are being asked and if the car has been well maintained and is in really good nick then you will be paying over 18k for a GT3 but prices beyond 20K are a tad optimistic in my view. Still as so few come to the market each year I can only see values holding and growing at a slow but steady pace.

[Mike6]

A lot go overseas reducing the supply over here, owners cherish and hang onto their cars plus a few still go up in flames/crash etc. All in all prices must have bottomed out but values will creep up slowly as they still have a bit of a kit car look about them.

[pete]

 as they still have a bit of a kit car look about them.

only some

[rudolphwolven]

My personal observation during 21 years of ownership, with dropping/lagging-behind prices all those years shows that now in Continental Europe (and especially in Germany, where top-prices are asked) since approx. 2 years prices for excellent/low mileage SE's, S4's, S4S's (the latter if available) are finally, clearly and definitively on the rise 

The exact reason why is unclear to me but the uptrend is there.

 

At the moment there are only 47 Esprits offered on the whole Continent ...........10 years ago there were between 75-100 for sale......and the number is falling constantly.

In comparison to the UK (Piston Heads) 25 Esprits are offered whereas the number of population on the Continent exceeds 400 million, compared to 64 million in the UK.

Furthermore keep in mind that in spite of the fact that the Continent is united without classic "boarders" potential buyers are limited in their readiness to buy cars in a different cultural environment than their own one, thus narrowing their circle of choice for each individual country. 

 

Although a couple of RHD Esprits, imported from the UK are offered time by time, even with extreme low prices these cars remain unfavourable on the Continent due to their RHD layout and sometimes also beeing considered as a "poor men's" Lotus.  

In my observation prices for excellent Esprits with generally one/few owner(s) are "firmer" since reason(s) for a (short term) sale are less forced and strict as with the owners of examples with numerous problems that were passed over several times already to subsequent short term owners. These cars generally are offered with flexible sale prices; sometimes to "get rid of a real problem".

 

AutoScout24 

Italien13

Deutschland8

Belgien8

Niederlande6

Frankreich6

Spanien4

Österreich2

 

€ 1,00 = GBP 0,80

 

http://fahrzeuge.autoscout24.de/?atype=C&make=44&model=1834&mmvmk0=44&mmvmd0=1834&mmvco=1&pricefrom=1000&ustate=N,U&sort=price&desc=1&results=20&page=1&event=sort

http://suchen.mobile.de/auto/lotus-esprit.html?useCase=ChangeSortOrder&__lp=2&scopeId=C&makeModelVariant1.makeId=15900&makeModelVariant1.modelId=7&makeModelVariant1.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant2.searchInFreetext=false&makeModelVariant3.searchInFreetext=false&negativeFeatures=EXPORT&sortPath=price.consumerGrossEuro&sortOption.sortOrder=DESCENDING&defaultOrder=DESCENDING&lang=de

Edited August 23, 2014 by Ruud

[Roger 912]

Up in Johannesburg, a 1984 Turbo model in white with red trim sold last month for the equivalent of 22 000 pounds.

 

That does bode well for the model over here, but the going rate did seem to be a little more than half of this.

 

I don't think that I would value mine at this price, but would look at around the 15 000 pound mark, not that I am thinking of selling, after all, I have only owned it 8 years now.

[hedgerley]

This months Dealerchat in EVO is from Barry Ely, purveyor of all things Lotus for 40 years. His view is that the market is moving up, albeit slowly. Big right now are Elise S1 and Exige S1 both climbing steadily due to rarity value, especially in the UK as many were shipped to the continent in the early days.

 

He reckons the Esprit is on the cusp and is he is seeing values rise, again slowly but definitely up. I've had mine 7 years, paid £20k for it and according to the finance house I recently approached (looking to raise some business cash) is now worth £25k. And of course really good ones via dealers are up nearer £30k. I think its time has come.

[Andy Esprit SE]

Will anyone really make money on an esprit if they keep in longer than a few weeks?theres lots of maintenance to pay for, i suppose it off sets the expenditure rather than turns a profit when you sell.

I think anyone ready to buy an esprit will pay over the odds when there face to face with the right car, its the boy in all of us that makes that 'im having it' decision, right buyer for the right motor is a sellers dream, its just a waiting game. I paid over the odds and still thanked the fella ha ha

[s4simon]

I'm thinking of putting mine on the market later next year.  This is the only S4 in my state and one of only 3 red S4 cars in Australia.  Starting price will be around Au$69500.  Sell price should be in the region of 55-65k.

[Projectblue]

Well someone has wishful thinking, there is a black one appeared on pistonheads and they want £50k! Low miles it is, but fifty grand? I can't post the link for some reason.

[Advantage]

Yep, a one owner, 2003 car in starlight black with black leather and has 6000 miles under its tyres. £55,000. Good luck with that.

 

PH Clicky

 

 

[Vanya]

I can say without reservations that values are going up based on my hunt for a second Esprit earlier this year. Whether or not sales are being made are another matter, but there is little doubt that things are moving in the right direction. UK car prices are soon comparable (or even exceeding) Esprit prices on the continent where these vehicles are considered significantly more rare and exotic.

 

Edit: the guy with the 2003 V8 above will likely find an overseas buyer for that one. It won't go for 55,000 but 40-45 is possible.

[Jacques]

I find it a bit sad that values are going up, as more will become garagequeens or collectors items in just yet another exhibition hall, being that private or public. This may lead to lesser demands for spares, prices on spares going up, fewer being produced, and ultimately fewer cars on the roads. A pity in my view. I never bought mine as an Investment, but because it's a really great supercar.

 

And if the prices go sky high (over time), there will be some owners who will think twice, before they start their now really expensive Esprit, and thereby not starting it, driving it, out of fear of damaging it. This have happened to many old school Italian Classic sports motorcycles and to some Classic sportscars.

In relation to this, I will Express my own opinion of a trip to an exhibition, or otherwise diplay of the car to other people admireling it, I don't considder it a drive. Nothing wrong an exhibition though as such.

A drive to me at least, will be a spirited drive n some curvy backroad, to make good use of the sportscar, over say a 100 mile boring straight road, with one 90 degree turn into a display area.

 

I've been to carmeets where people attend with their sportscar on a trailer. That's silly. Sure people will think a Lotus will always break Down, if people drive around with it on a trailer

 

And for an average little boy walking at the street to see an Esprit, in lesser. And remember that seeing this while being a child, is important for ones choices later in life. It did it for me, my friends, my neighbours and will sure do it for many more in the future. So, let's keep prices and availability down and spares too;)

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Bazza 907]

Jacques

I agree that it would be a pity if they ended up simply garaged as an investment but I think we are a very very long way from that. As others have said, Esprits have largely been left behind in the classic car bubble of the last few years.

 

Remember Elan 26R's prices have been through the roof and there are now said to be more 26R's on the road now than were ever built..

[Vanya]

Don't worry Jacques, I don't think UK owners are going the garage queen route any time soon. UK folks drive their cars, and it's them that primarily drive the development and production of new parts and improved solutions!

 

No worries then!

 

Re the "Garage Queen" idea - read a hilarious sale ad for a US V8 with something like 20,000 miles on the clock. In the description the owner said "oh it's got the usual foibles and dings of a 20k vehicle" implying that this mileage was significant. WTF.  

[Jacques]

Ha ha, funny ad.

 

Barrie, this is also what I've seen with Laverda's; fakes being made, sky high prices for a so called ex-factory racer, fake 750SFC's etc. Lot's of fake stuff and fake sellers on fleabay and other Places.

 

I will keep my view on prices should be low, so they are accessible, and drivable.

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

 

ps: where I live we pay 180% tax on top of your UK prices, plus a Premium for left hand drive. So they are already expensive

[Vanya]

ps: where I live we pay 180% tax on top of your UK prices, plus a Premium for left hand drive. So they are already expensive

 

I'm pretty sure the damn hippies in Sweden (Green Party) will be enacting some similar bullshit here soon, which is why I'm stocking up on Esprits while I still can.

[mr.oogieboogie]

Yep drive them. Although its easier with seats in

[hedgerley]

Accepting the 18 months younger and 60,000 mile difference (although I have the centre exhaust and a MUCH nicer interior) I can't believe someone thinks that Esprit is worth more than twice mine. Really?

 

Anyhow, good news I guess. But as Vanya says for those of us who drive our cars (and they have to be driven) and have no intention of selling its rather irrelevant.

[Jacques]

I think, with reference to my earlier comment, that I at least don't see it as irrelevant, as it may affect spares and such.

 

Another thing is the so called free market. That is damageing many things, unless regulated to a certain extent. I too find it absurd, that two cars can be valuated so differently, not looking at condition, milage etc.

 

Vanya: Are you making a saving for old age?    I know someone who do this with old cars and motorcycles. Even skateboards, old HiFi, classic racebicycles and some other things.

 

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Chillidoggy]

All the time there are examples that have been neglected or poorly maintained, around then I think the Esprit prices will remain artificially low. When I searched around for one to buy I saw a lot of cars which I would be embarrassed to offer for sale, some with major faults. I also think that there is a negative brand 'awareness' which depresses prices.

I believe that a dealer service history is not necessarily the Holy Grail it might seem to be, because in addition the car needs an enthusiastic owner, the benefit of a local marque specialist, and the ability to spend money on it.

I tend to agree with the dealers that prices "should" be higher, but given their vested interest, and as they're in business to make money rather than simply to do anyone a favour, then it could be argued that their view is a little skewed. That said, I also believe it is in the owners' interest that prices rise, as one thing I have learned in my brief ownership is that those without the necessary resources will struggle to maintain a good example. That's when reputations are damaged, and prices tumble. You can't run one on a shoestring, because at some point the string will break. We should be pushing up standards in order to see better examples come up for sale that have been properly looked after, and only then will we see a rise in values.

[Vanya]

Vanya: Are you making a saving for old age?    I know someone who do this with old cars and motorcycles. Even skateboards, old HiFi, classic racebicycles and some other things.

 

I dunno about old age, but I tend to collect things I like...records, guitars..now cars. My V8 is my investment though, it was pretty much purchased exclusively to see what show-car ownership is like and what it costs over time.

 

My Turbo SE is a veritable money pit which is bleeding me at every opportunity. That one I'll take to my grave as the restoration will take a lifetime if I'm not to go broke in the process (engine out & rebuild, suspension rebuild, new wishbones, respray, re-zincing links and other bits....)

 

 

All the time there are examples that have been neglected or poorly maintained, around then I think the Esprit prices will remain artificially low. When I searched around for one to buy I saw a lot of cars which I would be embarrassed to offer for sale, some with major faults. I also think that there is a negative brand 'awareness' which depresses prices.

 

Quoted for truth. 

[Jacques]

agreed.

 

Cheers,

Jacques.

[andy b]

on the pos side we all have classic car insurance and while prices rise it may mean an esprit gets repaired after damage however caused which is a good thing.

A point about insurance and agreed value. I was unfortunate to have a brake failure on a climax elite just bad luck a small piece of the plating in the master cylinder tank fell away and got under the frond seal and the pedal went to the floor.

I  paid £15000 for the car some years earlier done a running resto inc new master cylinder.

Then i repainted the car, In the interim years i did not up the value and send pictures. so three weeks after the re paint I had the bump. When the assessor called to see the car he said you don't have agreed value on this car my comment was but it is fully comp is it not he agreed and they paid out £25000 for the repairs. if i had agreed value still at £15000 thats what they would have paid out.

 So be car full with the values rising with your insurance.

As a foot note if you have agreed value it is not g/teed to pay out that amount it is still down to the assessor.

andy b

O yes i forgot I was felling sorry for my self crashing my car so to feel a little better i bought the m100 first then the buy it now s3 turbo now all up together and ready for the mot. elite still in work shop damaged thats the next major job