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Splashout

The research is in

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Firstly I have put this here as its more of a general interest than G-car technical but if you think it needs moving feel free to do so mods.

Ok over the past week I have been mooting and researching an idea :)

Take this

GaryRowling_01.jpg

and one of theese

29050608.jpg

modify this to approx 400-500bhp

3sgte.jpg

and fit in in here

GaryRowling_07.jpg

The only thing I need to do to find out if it is doable is take some measurements to see if it will fit and not be to far back in the engine bay as the MR2 engine is transverse, which I plan to do this weekend.

I have been speaking to probably the UK's leading 3s gte tuning company fensport who have advised that this level of tune is achievable with off the self tuning parts.

This is a LONG term plan as to do it properly is gonna cost

Edited by Splashout

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

If it was me, I would consider putting the Lotus V8TT into it and tuning that with a few off-shelf bits to get 450+bhp.... (should be able to source a V8TT at reasonable cost, i did...)

I don't see the attraction of the MR2 engine unless you can explain more why you chose it?

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I didn't realise the 'Yota turbo lump was that tuneable! Those crazy foreigners! :)

I've seen a G car with an RS Cosworth 4 pot plopped in the engine bay. They can be made to produce usefull amounts of bhp, too.

sierra_cossy_engine.jpg

However, given the Elise 111R has a Toyota engine, I kinda like the logic of an old school Esprit with an old school MR2 engine. From an engineering and interest point of view, I say do it! B)

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there is a cossie in a s4, and its insane break over 700bhp, in fact the fastest accelerating car

i have ever seen in real life was a saph cossie 0-60 in 3.1secs and that was properly timed at silverstone.

just looked normal, with normal tyres and interior etc etc

Edited by karluk29

OUR CURRENT COLLECITON :- MODIFIED LOTUS ESPRIT, FULL VEILSIDE SUPRA (BEAST 409.3bhp), NEW ADDITON TO THE TROOP, 1996 S CLASS MERC (FULLY PIMPED OUT, DUB EDITION)

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The main appeal of the toyota lump realy is it reliability when tuned to this level from what I am hearing it should be as relioable as a normal engine if done properly.

No offense to lotus engines but they do seem to need alot of TLC to keep them reliable.

My brother has an MR2 that has just stood for 6 months and then started first turn of the key. I would hasten to bet that most esprits if just left for 6 months probably wouldnt start on the button.

Add to this the percieved hastle of fitting the UN1 to the G-car then this seems like a good idea (although I dont see why the UN1 couldnt be used with the BMW brake conversion Andy is doing which could make it more appealing).

The other factor that is if the MR2 lump is tuned along the right lines then it is just the turbo fueling etc that is needed to go beyond this and some guys in the US and Japan according to the MR2 forums are pushing close to 800bhp+

So it seems like it could be a good idea.

What could the lotus V8 if highly tuned push out and at what cost?

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im no engine loon, but it seems to me ppl think that tuning a lotus is somehow different to tuning a jap monster, if you use jap tuning methods, boost/fuel controllers etc etc, upgrading cooling, de-cat, new fuel pump big injectors. why can it push out the big numbers. ok the gearbox bla bla, but why cant it.

misses supra runs 364bhp/352lbs and only has de-cat/dump valve/k&n, with a boost controller (in jan hopefully), and big front mount its going to be in the 400's.

just chipping a v8 break the 400's, and who is the bloke from sunday that had a 500bhp v8, what had he had done

i raced a mr2 turbo the other month and he had a boost controller and de-cat bla bla, he never left me and i was catching very very slowly after 130mph. popping flames all over the place he was. whats the weight difference between the mr2 & yours


OUR CURRENT COLLECITON :- MODIFIED LOTUS ESPRIT, FULL VEILSIDE SUPRA (BEAST 409.3bhp), NEW ADDITON TO THE TROOP, 1996 S CLASS MERC (FULLY PIMPED OUT, DUB EDITION)

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Whats wrong with a Gary Kemp 912 ?

Dunno what cost offset is to the Toyota but it should drop right in.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but you dont hear of many 91x engines or even 920 engines going wrong ? (neck out) Neiher should be they be given their time in service.

Where are you going to use that 500hp - sounds great on paper but will it be practical for you ?

Cosworth has always appealed to me, having stong Lotus ties anyways - as Karl says they are very tunable.

Always prefered the screaming 4 over the V8, the weight shift should also be fairly similar to what you're used to as well.


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whats the weight difference between the mr2 & yours

Good question. I've just done a bit of Googling and found that the MR2 Turbo was around 1250kgs and had approx 240bhp. The Esprit Turbo should be around 1150 kgs with 210 bhp (apparently the later HC were a rather portly 1300kgs and 215bhp? I find that strange - was it all the ruffled leather?)

So on paper the two cars should be relativley evenly matched - in a straight line. Up the bhp of either one to 5-600 bhp and it'd be a different story :)

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Karl no odds with tuning a lotus but how many parts are available off the self not alot, meaning to tune my engine alot of parts needed would have to be found out there although it can be done..

As for the reliability of the lotus engines I am not saying they are bad just that they have to be taken care of I am sure that no one hear would disagree with that.

Mine has been more reliable that Toni's micra this year but that said its taken me alot of time and cash to get it to that level.

I personally am one to stear away from the norm and hence would like to have a 4pot of some description in there, maybe 6 pot but dont think that would fit would like to stear clear of V8 really just personal prefernce.

John I did think of a gary kemp engine but again could they be pushed that far? As for where I would use it most of the time I am generally going for a hoon somewhere most of the time with 2 or 3 bikes and a chimera so I am sure it would get used also would love to get the car sorted and give it some track time as well again I am sure it would be used here.

As for cosworth its a nice idea I hadnt thought about or looked at but what box could you use with it? The MR2 come ready mid engine configured.

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The MR2 come ready mid engine configured.

They do, but bear in mind that the MR2 engine sits in the engine bay facing east/west and has the gearbox bolted onto the side (similar to an Elise), whereas the Esprit 4 pot sits north/south and has the gearbox on the back.

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Would I yank the Lotus engine out of my immaculate classic 1983 Turbo Esprit and replace it with a Toyota drivetrain? :)

No. :(

But I would go and find a engineless wreck of an Esprit and transplant an interesting drivetrain in to it :D

That makes more sense (to me) :)


SUNP0003-1.jpg

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im no engine loon, but it seems to me ppl think that tuning a lotus is somehow different to tuning a jap monster, if you use jap tuning methods, boost/fuel controllers etc etc, upgrading cooling, de-cat, new fuel pump big injectors. why can it push out the big numbers. ok the gearbox bla bla, but why cant it.

misses supra runs 364bhp/352lbs and only has de-cat/dump valve/k&n, with a boost controller (in jan hopefully), and big front mount its going to be in the 400's.

just chipping a v8 break the 400's, and who is the bloke from sunday that had a 500bhp v8, what had he had done

i raced a mr2 turbo the other month and he had a boost controller and de-cat bla bla, he never left me and i was catching very very slowly after 130mph. popping flames all over the place he was. whats the weight difference between the mr2 & yours

Case in point. Check out my garage. I haven't dyno'd my car as of yet, but it started life as a standard 228hp US spec Turbo. I have added secondary injectors, boost controller and a fuel controller(for the secondary injectors) and at .95 bar she screams... I will dyno in the next few weeks to get a reading. Using freescan I have tuned out almost all of the engine knock and the car runs very well on this setup. I bought the controllers on ebay for about $500usd and the injectors from John Welch at WC eng. I also added a proper Lotus chargecooler and WC electric pump and a large heat exchanger at the front of the car!

Artie


89 White Esprit SE

...a few little upgrades....

93 RX7.....Silverstone

....slightly modded...Muahaha...

New Addition:

1990 300ZX TT......Hmmm

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Firstly Wayne I would generally agree with you however I already have the 1986 esprit and think i may be lynched by family if i suggested getting another one!

As for other drive trains the same question raises its head in my mind though what box would you put with it in the fact that the UN1 is rumored to be a bugger to get into a G-car with whole rear end changes talked about!

Keep them coming lots to think about

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John I did think of a gary kemp engine but again could they be pushed that far? As for where I would use it most of the time I am generally going for a hoon somewhere most of the time with 2 or 3 bikes and a chimera so I am sure it would get used also would love to get the car sorted and give it some track time as well again I am sure it would be used here.

As for cosworth its a nice idea I hadnt thought about or looked at but what box could you use with it? The MR2 come ready mid engine configured.

I agree on the reliability, ease of maintenence arguments for using a Japanese motor. They are the finest.

I have a 910 2.2 4pot in my car which gets 400-450bhp but the cost to get it was quite a lot. Reliability I'm not sure of yet, facing a few awkward bills at present as it has oil and water problems which I think are more down to installation etc than the engine.

Has made me seriously consider changing to a Japanese motor though. I wouldn't mind sourcing a NSX V6 :) As ever the gearbox is the main concern as I find when driving it would 'feel' better with a 6th gear.

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Hmmmmmmmmmm........

Getting a transverse 4 pot to fit it the Esprit engine bay will be a challange!!!!

I personally don't think it will fit as the widest part at the top is only 32" and it gets narrower lower down especially the further forward you go.

I could be wrong though and will be interested in how you get on :)

With a bit of luck I should be able to give an update on the BMW based rear brake upgrade ........


1981 S3 4.2 V8 6 speed (The Mutant)

Mutant V8 Conversion Thread

Knowledge is power .................... apparently.

 

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Andy this is the one thing I havent looked at yet as havent had access to the two cars at the same time.

I am hopefull though on the basis that visually the MR2 is much smaller than the esprit so who knows should know by monday

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As I said, I could be wrong about it not fitting.

The MR2 is narrower agreed, but that hasn't got a fuel tank either side of the engine bay.

Been tring to figure out which side the exhaust is from that engine photo. If it is on the wrong side (ie bulk head side) then that will almost certainly kill the idea as you will never get the exhaust past the engine.

Never having seen a transverse transplant (there are not that many normal transplants for that matter) it makes it a bit harder to guess if it will go in.

I have got the engine out of mine at the moment, so if you want any measurements just give me a shout.

Andy


1981 S3 4.2 V8 6 speed (The Mutant)

Mutant V8 Conversion Thread

Knowledge is power .................... apparently.

 

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There's a lot of engines you could use, just from looking on the Elise forums I've seen what people do to their cars and engine swaps.

Thinking along those lines an Audi TT quatro engine should fit in, so should a supercharged Honda VTEC if you don't want turbo power. The Audi Elises are stupidly fast, some people even say they are too powerful and not as fun to drive as the honda - my little Elise was only 120hp but just as fun (if not more fun) to drive as the GT3.

The most I think they ever got reliably on the S300 was 450bhp in the race cars. The Esprit V8 is 350 horse and heavier than your S3 and they're WELL fast enough for the road. I do think you can tune cars TOO much, the car might produce 6-700 horse power but where do you actually use it (safely).

I agree with tuning that Japanese engines are proven again and again to be worth their money.

Lastly remember it's your car, if you reakon this will allow you to enjoy it better then go for it !!


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