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S1 Elite door hinge pin replacement.


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Right, there doesn't seem to be a really comprehensive report into this job on the net so i'll document it the best i can on here. 

 

Make no mistake this is a horrible job that fights with you from the start (may be easier on an Excel ?), i've been messing with cars for years but really tried my patience and half way through was left wishing that i hadn't bothered.

 

Right, from the start the WHOLE DOOR needs to be stripped, no ways around this, and BOLTS WILL SNAP. 

 

The hinge pin goes through the door beam to form the hinge, EVERYTHING in the door is bolted to this beam, so the door catch, window frame and window regulator (electric window motor) needs to be unbolted and removed, fine in theory but in reality a ballache if it's all been together for 34 years. 

 

Like i said it's horrible.

 

First job, the window frame needs to come out, if you dont remove the window frame the door beam cant be extracted, if the door beam cant be extracted the door hinge pin wont come out.

 

There are six bolts holding the frame to the beam

 

These are the bolts that snapped, not a huge deal but once the bolts snap there is no going back.

 

GnRzKgVl.jpg

 

This was the second bolt, dealt with these by inserting a bare hacksaw blade and cutting them off (as they would have fouled the door shell on the way out)

 

9WaVebol.jpg

 

Removed the door catch (which is bolted to the end of the door beam)

 

EHtBDbFl.jpg

 

Unpluged the wiring from the window motor and pulled it free from the door shell, (my car lost it's electric mirror years ago so if your car is still fitted with this that will need disconnected and pulled through)

 

vbOjn5Al.jpg

 

Also the window frame has two tiny screws hidden under the belt line trim at the top of the door shell (which has to be removed as well, just prises off with a flat blade screw driver), one at the A section of the frame and one at the B section, these had to be drilled out as they had rotted. 

 

PaLRKb2l.jpg

 

Even then the frame put up a fight to come out, i had to cut through the inner door shell to free the front section (i'll post pics of later)

 

Also found it easier to remove the frame with the drop glass in place (regulator disconnected obviously) as with the drop glass lowered the lower section of the frame was getting splayed out, was having to force the frame with fear of breaking the drop glass. 

 

5PNP9T8l.jpg

 

Bare door shell, all thats holding it to the beam now is four ten millimeter bolts though i removed the L shape bracket completely from the front hinge, two bolts are at the rear of the shell above and bellow where the door catch was.

 

SsBOYVjl.jpg

 

Once these are removed the door shell can be withdrawn from the beam leaving this.

 

yGpQAdol.jpg

 

Unbolted the lower hinge bracket from the shell to free the beam keeping the existing top and bottom shims in order.

 

cABR0B5l.jpg

 

Predictably the beam has rot in it at the front section, i'll cut this rot out and repair it to save the beam but worth bearing in mind if you cant weld, if you are doing this job on an S1 Elite or Eclat it's pretty much guaranteed you will find the beam rotten.

 

qPgawVBl.jpg

 

Annoyingly i've found it's not the pin and bushes thats worn but the pin has siezed in the bushed and the threaded part of the pin has been turning in the brackets, only hope that the brackets are not too badly worn but will need to cross that bridge when i come to it. 

Edited by markgenesis
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I thought as much.

The hinge pin job does look very labour intensive but worth it in the long run.

If you had found that the pin was seized in the bracket first and just fixed that then you would have a beam collapsing later.

 

I purchased a pair of hinge pin kits from someone who had decided not to do the job and scrapped,or sold the car, or something.

 

Interestingly, in these kits there is an adapter included to repair the bracket. It would appear that the inevitable oval hole in the bracket is drilled out to accept the adapter which is stepped. I assume then this is held in place by tack welding. I have no idea of the origin of this type of kit as they did not come with installation instructions. If you need dimensions of the adapter I am sure I can oblige.

 

I have all this work to tackle as my drivers side door has dropped and the passenger side hinge is seized. I will have to wait for now as I have so many half stared jobs on the go.

 

Look forward to the next installment.

Edited by dixi4uk
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Yeah, i've heard of doors falling off completely Adrian, i can well imagine a weak beam breaking if the rot is advanced and hinge becomes stiff.

 

There is a fair bit of wear (groves) in the threaded parts of my pin so hoping the brackets have'nt ovaled, if they have i'll need to drill it round and make up some kind of shim,

 

Luckily my passenger door seems fine (i think), it's not sagging or stiff but i'll probably strip it anyway, going to drill out the pin tube on the beam and fit a grease nipple (something Lotus should maybe have done ?), will do the same on the passenger side.

 

Course it should be a bit easier now i know what to expect after the drivers side.

 

Ideally i'd like a pair of galvanised beams from Lotusbits but really once the beam is repaired, de-rusted and painted/waxoyled properly it should last a long while.

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Yeah, i've heard of doors falling off completely Adrian, i can well imagine a weak beam breaking if the rot is advanced and hinge becomes stiff.

 

There is a fair bit of wear (groves) in the threaded parts of my pin so hoping the brackets have'nt ovaled, if they have i'll need to drill it round and make up some kind of shim,

 

Luckily my passenger door seems fine (i think), it's not sagging or stiff but i'll probably strip it anyway, going to drill out the pin tube on the beam and fit a grease nipple (something Lotus should maybe have done ?), will do the same on the passenger side.

 

Course it should be a bit easier now i know what to expect after the drivers side.

 

Ideally i'd like a pair of galvanised beams from Lotusbits but really once the beam is repaired, de-rusted and painted/waxoyled properly it should last a long while.

A couple of things that come to mind.

As I said I have the stepped repair bushes for the brackets which came with my kit. I will have to find them and post a picture with dimensions. Even if the brackets are not visually ovaled, a few thou of play at the bracket is a hell of a distance 1 meter down the end of the door. It would be a "belts and braces" fix and something I would do anyway.

 

The grease nipple is also a must have if there is clearance. A few pence invested by Lotus years ago would have saved much distress to their car owners forty years down the line.

 

When you start repair of the beam I would be interested in learning the guage of steel you are using.This would help me make preparations by securing some offcuts prior to my replacement of the hinges.

As you say it is almost guaranteed that the beams will need welding.

This leads me onto the subject of galvanising. As my source of offcuts is a rental tenant I have who has a welding shop contructing industrial buildings, industrial fire escapes and general welding services. Each week he has a large articulated truck turn up and take away his contructed items for hot galvanising. He has offered to add any pieces I want galvanising and it costs very little done in this way.

 

Maybe you could find someone in Glasgow to do the same for you?

 

Hot galvanising is the best protector but it is not without it's own disadvantages, the extra weight (however hard one tries there is always trapped zinc in the cavities), the extra size build up overall on the surface of the steel making refitting difficult and of course all the mounting holes in the beams will have to be plugged, retapped or reamed. With extra holes drilled for drainage of the zinc after dipping.

 

Other ideas are phosphate dipping, cold galvanising using "Galifroid" or as you suggest good old "Waxoyl"

 

Waiting for the next installment with bated breath.

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Tried messing about with a coke can shim earlier when trying the new pin in the brackets, this seems to work pretty well but being alloy, maybe making a shim from tin would be better ?, recon whatever i use as long as there is no movement and the pin is turning on the bushes and not the brackets then it will be fine.

 

SJ could have supplied new nuts with the pin though, will need to source some.

 

z4YcSYtl.jpg  

 

Old pin and bushes came out the beam ok with a bit of heat from a blow torch.   

 

ayjfYeel.jpg   

 

Attacked the beam with a Twistknot brush, course it looks a lot worse now, will still repair though.  

 

JvJ2tg1l.jpg   

 

Here is the hacksaw cut i had to make to the inner door shell (sorry about the out of focus pic), before i did this it felt like there was no way the front of the frame would come out, lord knows how it went in at the factory, will repair this with resin and strand mat when i get the door back together.  

 

KMAJZlsl.jpg     

 

Edited by markgenesis
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A couple of things that come to mind.

As I said I have the stepped repair bushes for the brackets which came with my kit. I will have to find them and post a picture with dimensions. Even if the brackets are not visually ovaled, a few thou of play at the bracket is a hell of a distance 1 meter down the end of the door. It would be a "belts and braces" fix and something I would do anyway.

 

The grease nipple is also a must have if there is clearance. A few pence invested by Lotus years ago would have saved much distress to their car owners forty years down the line.

 

When you start repair of the beam I would be interested in learning the guage of steel you are using.This would help me make preparations by securing some offcuts prior to my replacement of the hinges.

As you say it is almost guaranteed that the beams will need welding.

This leads me onto the subject of galvanising. As my source of offcuts is a rental tenant I have who has a welding shop contructing industrial buildings, industrial fire escapes and general welding services. Each week he has a large articulated truck turn up and take away his contructed items for hot galvanising. He has offered to add any pieces I want galvanising and it costs very little done in this way.

 

Maybe you could find someone in Glasgow to do the same for you?

 

Hot galvanising is the best protector but it is not without it's own disadvantages, the extra weight (however hard one tries there is always trapped zinc in the cavities), the extra size build up overall on the surface of the steel making refitting difficult and of course all the mounting holes in the beams will have to be plugged, retapped or reamed. With extra holes drilled for drainage of the zinc after dipping.

 

Other ideas are phosphate dipping, cold galvanising using "Galifroid" or as you suggest good old "Waxoyl"

 

Waiting for the next installment with bated breath.

 

Lost a whole load of text from my last post, went ot edit it and it wound'nt play :huh:

 

Anyway, galvanising would be ideal Adrian but the trouble is i'm impatient, really want to get this job done before the holidays incase i want to use the car over Christmas and new year so paint and Waxoyl it will need to be.

 

The steel on the beam looks about 18 guage (1.5mm) 

 

You are right about the movement at the pin, my door was dropping and could be lifted about 1/2" but there seems to be about 1mm of movement of the pin in the brackets, whatever i use to remove the play as long as it's tight and the pin is turning on the bushes and not the brackets then it should be fine.   

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That beam looks like it's had water running onto it, arrange a plastic flap when replacing to channel the rainwater behind it.

 

There's plenty of room for the grease nipple mod, you may want to cut a few grooves in the pin bearing surfaces if you do this to carry the grease around. Best to mark nipple position on the beam before taking the door off to ensure it will be accesible with the grease-gun when it's all back together.

 

Oval holes on the brackets can be filled with weld and re-drilled, (I also welded a large washer on top)

 

I keep mine greased and have had no problems in the xx years it's been done.

 

Agreed, these mods whould not be necessary if Lotus did a proper job to start with.

Edited by Denis247
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Hi Guys, will update this at the weekend, done the welding on the beam last night so it's all solid again.

 

Will be taking the beam into my work on Saturday morning to fit a grease nipple.

 

Will follow Denis247's advice and weld flat washers to the brackets to cure the ovaling (the movement is tiny TBH so will probably take up the space with a shim rather than weld)

 

Found some rot in the window frame though, going to just repair that with fibreglass for now though and look for a better window frame next year.    

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Hi Guys, will update this at the weekend, done the welding on the beam last night so it's all solid again.

 

Will be taking the beam into my work on Saturday morning to fit a grease nipple.

 

Will follow Denis247's advice and weld flat washers to the brackets to cure the ovaling (the movement is tiny TBH so will probably take up the space with a shim rather than weld)

 

Found some rot in the window frame though, going to just repair that with fibreglass for now though and look for a better window frame next year.

Try JB Weld for repairing the window frame, I also had a slight amount and found this to repair metal parts far better than fiberglass.

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Try JB Weld for repairing the window frame, I also had a slight amount and found this to repair metal parts far better than fiberglass.

 

 

Your'e right Denis, will get some Chemical Metal in the morning :smoke:

 

Bit more progress today.

 

Grease nipple fitted, bushes knocked into beam and new pin installed.

 

zaYLf3rl.jpg  

 

New steel welded into beam (old rusty section was chopped out) 

 

JYaYaYTl.jpg  

 

Bolted back into place, was going to make up tin shims to fit into the holes in the brackets to take up the slack but found this unnecessary as the 12mm washers i used following Denis's suggestion were such a tight fit on the threads that once welded to the brackets the washers held the pin solid. 

 

Also did the new nuts up mega tight to ensure the pin doesn't rotate in future.

 

wupNFOLl.jpg  

 

Fitted the catch to the end of the beam and adjusted the lower bracket to get it working nice, may still need a bit of adjustment once the door is built back up but should only be minimal.   

 

cInbhm1l.jpg  

 

Still have a couple of 10mm nuts to weld to the beam for the window frame (had to chop these off as the bolts had snapped), a coat of paint, Waxoyl inside then i can build it back up.

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Great progress.

I can see you can crack on when required.

 

Cheers Adrian, in fact i'm off back to the garage in a wee while (following dinner and a few beers), how keen (insane ?) is that ? :D    

 

Thing is i may need to drive family around over the Christmas holidays and i really want to use the Lotus for this so keen to get this job done soon :smoke:

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Well I hope we do not have snow over Christmas as you are so keen on walking.........

 

Keen going back into the garage on a dark cold winters night. I used to do daft things like that in my younger days.

 

I hope all goes back together well and there is not too much distortion with all that seam welding.

 

Part three soon?.

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I would have still made a couple of grooves in the bearing surfaces of the pins, to carry the grease,

 

I did Denis, just forgot to mention it and take a pic before i installed the pin, cut two 1mm deep groves in each bearing surface with a 1mm cutting disc in the grinder. 

 

Tonights progress.

 

Red primer.

 

EFN3JN8l.jpg

 

Black Waxoyl spray.

 

RSgPKt3l.jpg

 

Check strap refitted.

 

IMkA80Ml.jpg

 

Actually got the door shell and catch refitted too but was too knackered to take any more pics, will try and get the window frame repaired and update tomorrow.

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Damn it, looking at these pics i've just realised i've put the check strap on back to front (the part that bolts to the beam) :rolleyes:

 

Will need to fix that in the morning.

At least you noticed before refitting the door skin. It can be taken off after the skin is on, but it's a bit of a squeeze ( did mine this summer after the check mechanism actually snapped)

I'm not claiming any originality re the points in fitting the grease nipple, it was a common mod many years ago. And so it the fitting of plastic sheet to channel rainwater around(in front of) the beam and down to the bottom of the door.

All good fun though eh.

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Got this job finished over the last couple of days.

Had loads of hassle with the check strap, turned it round the right way and the swine kept popping off, (arm would dislocate from the slider), re-mounted it backwards (major fiddly as the door shell was back on at this point) and it worked fine so backwards it stayed.

Also getting the door catch back on, connected up was a head bursting/Krypton factor sketch.

By the time i'd got those dealt with i just wanted the thing back together so i'll admit i didn't use Denis's tip on the sheet of plastic to stop water getting to the beam, this really should have went on before the window frame went in as it needs to be stuck to the top inner edge of the outer door skin (though it could maybe be pulled up and folded under the belt line trim ?) but like i say, by this stage i was loosing the will to live.

bracket bolted back on, the door shell is held onto the beam by just two M6 bolts through this bracket at the front and two M6 bolts at the catch end and an M6 bolt in the centre.

zIEy0zzl.jpg

 

Here is the bolt in the centre, this is the first bolt that snapped at the start of the job, had to weld a new captive M6 nut to the beam and use a new bolt an washer of course.    

 

LB1GVUel.jpg

Repaired the rot in the window frame with chemical metal, not pretty but will be hidden inside the door.

mOWBICxl.jpg

Electric window motor bolted back in.

yE1qGvFl.jpg

Door built back up and opening/closing fine.   

4DxlMnOl.jpg

Only real bodge i had to do was where the tiny screw was securing the door skin to the window frame, drilled the head off this at the start of the job, didn't fancy drilling a fresh hole and risk breaking the 1/4 light so i just stuck it with a bit of Chemical metal (this will be hidden under the belt line trim)

YeTwtI0l.jpg

Inner door skin re sealed.

MSA94y4l.jpg

Only other hassle i had was the door catching on the sill trim slightly (why it's removed in the above pic), really the door is sitting slightly low now but is closing/locking fine, didn't want to risk adjusting the door "slightly" then knocking it miles out so gave the trim a few downward blows with a rubber mallet and that did the trick.
 

Edited by Bibs
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