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I feel for you regarding the cost of the repair and  would be gutted if this would of happened to me, but at the end of the day

you drive an evora,a modern sports car,and these two words at some point mean you are going to have to pay a little bit more on repairs than your average motor.

I personally feel you have been extremely lucky with regards to the 500 pounds which we used to call good will i.e if the warranty had expired but it was given reason that a part had failed and was as it states a given in good will.

I think lotus have been extremely kind to offer/pay the 500 and I can assure you that legally it is correct regarding out of warranty periods and they have gone above and beyond what should be expected of them, like the others have said any other car brand service reception would of told you where to go.   Thankfully given  the Cultish thing around this brand they tend to look after you !

Regards Danny

A

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I tend to agree with Barry that Lotus have been more than genererous, and I say this as a 2010 Evora owner who may suffer the same issue at any time.  It's a difficult one to call but a warranty is ju

Sadly you're out of warranty so Lotus don't have any requirement to contribute to repairs. If you do want to make a contact, email Neil Turner ([email protected]) but I'd imagine your dealer has a

I'm pretty sure the brake and clutch fluid are shared and its not unusual to boil brake fluid, perhaps on track, so I'd imagine its considered a consumable.

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I here what you are saying Solarshaun and I really do empathise with you. However, the fact is the warranty period is gone and with it Lotus' legal obligations have gone too. I was trying to point out that with most other manufacturers, who let's face it are significantly larger, have much more resources and cash than Lotus, would have told you to go away, but instead, Lotus stepped up and offered £500 - which is £500 more than other manufacturer would usually offer outside of warranty.

Your contract for purchase is with the dealer, not Lotus, whether you buy new or 2nd hand. So can I ask what the dealer has done to stand behind the car that they sold you?  Did they consider matching Lotus's generous offer? After all, don't forget that when you buy a 2nd hand Lotus (sorry if my assumption you did not buy it new is wrong) Lotus see's no benefit from that at all. Lotus gets cash when they first sell the car and on spares bought from them. It is the dealers that make cash EVERY time the car changes hands. It is the dealers who make cash every time it is serviced or repaired. So it should be the dealers, who really are the "custodians" of the relationship, who should be stepping up to the plate, and Lotus in my opinion anyway. By all means AFTER they have resolved the customers issue they should go back to the factory to get support for their actions and costs, but this should not be done by the consumer, if the problem is indeed a manufacturing / defect one.

Are dealers just like Bankers, WHSmith and Boots these days? Out to fleece their customers and make a quick buck and hang the long term consequences?  How many stories of dealers avoiding their responsibilities and just blaming Lotus and insisting that only Lotus provide the support? Is this really right and if so, why then should we use these dealers and not just start to buy the cars direct from the factory and take them there for servicing as what actual value are the dealers really providing? Interested in people's thoughts here. 

I hear a lot of stories on the various forums saying Lotus this and Lotus that, but in reality, the first point of customer contact, and the first point of accountability for customer service is with the dealers. That's why my reaction to the clutch fluid issue above was different to your clutch. It was a nearly new car still within first year of warranty and the real cost was tiny (to the dealer) etc.

At the end of the day, depending on when you bought your car, how long you have had it and how many miles done, your major recourse is under the Sales of Goods Act 1979 and subsequent revisions which says the item you bought must be supplied and be fit for the use intended and this includes reasonable durability and wear.  If it is within 6-9 months of your purchase, and a manufacturing defect as you suspect, then you have a strong claim as it would be "reasonably" expecting to not fail. Your recourse through this route is through your dealer (where you may be able to reject the car and hand it back) or through any finance company (including credit card company if you paid at least the deposit on your credit card - I think over £1k).  One of the very under-looked at reasons for buying a car, even part buying, under finance is this added protection which is hard for the finance companies to wiggle out from. If you have the cash you can of course pay off the "debt" at any time to restrict your interest total but the "protection" still remains. 

Sorry you took exception when I stated you "slagged" off Lotus for ONLY giving you £500 - I meant no offence though I'm also not sure what other term to use probably due to my deficiency with the English language.

But as per my posts and others, I think your ire in this instance is being targeted at the wrong organisation and your dealer should have possibly done a lot more to support you.  I think as a group of marque enthusiasts and owners, we need to more demanding with the main dealers, and I see from posts elsewhere that two dealers who have had "complaints" re service quality etc are now leaving the marque. So maybe we can make a difference.

Whatever, you still have my sympathies for such a catastrophic and expensive failure, and I certainly will not be screeching away from the lights in my Evora in 1st any time soon!   :)

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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30k miles and 4 years on a high performance car clutch?

If you compare that to lots of other manufacturers (Astons, Ferraris, Lambos, some Porsches etc etc), you've done well to get that much out of a clutch. To get £500 from the manufacturer for it's replacement, you've done very well.

(To expect them to replace a consumable part for free after so much time and use, well that's a 'smell the coffee' moment, I'm afraid).

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Let's also not forget - clutches are also excluded from most aftermarket warranty claims - it is a consumable like brake pads etc.... No matter how pricey.

I've seen a 6 month old car in a dealers having a clutch replaced - car under warranty - but clutch was charged for as it had been ridden for the few thousand miles it had done. it was a split charge issue to try and placate the customer - but....... These items no matter how you view it are consumable..

A replacement clutch in my works van is a costly item - so the value of works is actually an irrelevance. Even if it stings a bit....

Clutch in my old VW golf was best part of £1200 and that was 10 years ago - car had fsh and was a month out of warranty.

You can't be expecting replacement cam belts under warranty either.

At least you are back motoring - smile and enjoy the car for what it is - a great great motor.

Only here once

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Biggest issue nowadays is people think they have more rights than they actually do.

Any consumable (clutches, pads, discs etc) are excluded from warranty in the first place. And although you have a point about it letting go very early in it's life, you can only praise Lotus for saying 'we feel for you and here's £500'.

Saying you would expect more from the product indeed is something you could bring into a legal fight, but it will be extremely hard to win such a fight.

What people seem to forget is bringing up such things most of the times trigger companies to say "ok.. this gentleman wants to go legal.. that's it.. we're not going to do anything until we get a letter from his legal advisor.".

Sounds harsh but they have to as anything they'd do might work against them.

It's a shame it happened but it's a risk you have with every product you buy. When you buy a new TV which goes boom two months after the warranty expires all you will get is "sorry.. out of warranty, we've got nice and shiny new models now.."

Lotus giving you £500 don't admit to anything either. They probably feel it's early as well, they don't cover it under warranty so they make a guesture which is very kind of them.

As for the fluid.. it's brake fluid which ..if you want to do it right.. should be replaced every year in anyway. If they wouldn't have changed it now, it would be a the next service.

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30k miles and 4 years on a high performance car clutch?

If you compare that to lots of other manufacturers (Astons, Ferraris, Lambos, some Porsches etc etc), you've done well to get that much out of a clutch. To get £500 from the manufacturer for it's replacement, you've done very well.

(To expect them to replace a consumable part for free after so much time and use, well that's a 'smell the coffee' moment, I'm afraid).

Totally agree.  When my Evora clutch went recently (at about 30k), I did a bit of research as I was surprised it had gone.  I contacted Porsche and Ferrari and after speaking to them, I decided much the same, that I just had to suck it up and that actually I'd done ok in the Evora.  I certainly didn't get £500 back from Lotus.

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Take a bloody bmw or VW back just outside warranty with a problem - then see what you get.

There's always a warranty period - and to be fair - it is what it is.........

A good friend of mine discovered a crack in his rear subframe two months ago... A 2005 BMW M3... BMW have paid for the £4k job to be done at his local dealer.

My wife's old 2.0d X3's turbo went and contaminated the engine causing £7k's worth of damage outside warranty... It had a limited extended warranty... They paid for it, shame some manufacturers don't offer extended warranties. I believe Porsche and BMW do.

I had an S2000 with a rubber seal between the roof and window split. Car was 5 years old and the part was £420 plus VAT plus fitting... Dealer said he'd talk to Honda Customer Services... I got a call that very day saying it would be paid for by the manufacturer.. It's clutch also went at 20k miles when it was 2 and a half years old... Dealer paid the £1500 for it to be fixed at another Honda dealership... Awesome manufacturer that I'd love to buy a used NSX from one day

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My experience has not been good outside of warranty - sounds like you have had better luck. I have direct experience of bmw, VW and Chrysler. None of which have been good. Chrysler was shocking poor and dire.....

Once it is out of warranty - ultimately it's out

It's always lovely when a dealer will resolve it for you. I think some of it is about that for sure.

It's hard to please all of the people all of the time. I'm also very happy to be told I'm wrong - we all learn every day

The subframe - that's about fit for purpose - that should never ever have cracked.......

Only here once

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On 29 August 2015 12:04:36 am, Bullphi said:

I got mine back and it seems to work now. They have replaced the fluid in the clutch - said it had deteriorated with heat. They charged me £92 for this even though the car is still in warrantee (only 8 months old and 5000 miles). Would you expect clutch fluid to deteriorate in ts time?

Not sure if warranty would have covered the consumable clutch fluid or not, but did you see my post about the TSB on the overheating clutch fluid above?

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/71781-help-clutch-gone/?p=555058

If not applied to your car, it really should have been... 

On 29 August 2015 5:51:03 am, Bibs said:

I'm pretty sure the brake and clutch fluid are shared and its not unusual to boil brake fluid, perhaps on track, so I'd imagine its considered a consumable.

Agree, seems like the cars with shared systems, definitely need the clutch fluid replaced/bled more often.  Any moisture in the system, will get heated with the use of the brakes, and the gasses can effect the clutch system.

Travis

Vulcan Grey 89SE

My Lotus Photo and Projects Album

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Re the S2000 clutch at 2.5 years old, would that still be covered by the Honda 3 year new car warranty?

In my short Lotus owning history I've read many posts on how Lotus has stood by manufacturing / engineering issues long outside the warranty period including replacement wiring looms, ECU's and all manner of other expensive things.

I think that one of the points we are trying to make is that for its size and limited financial resources overall, Lotus does seem to try to do a good job and look after its customers in the main.

I think we do need to dofferentiate also between Factory support and dealer support. It does seem that some dealers, of all franchises, are very quick to run to the factory for resolutiin rather than actually taking responsibility themselves.

Whether i buy a washing machine or a car, my contract is usually with the retailer and not the manufacturer and its time that many dealers actually started to realise that.

That in turn woukd take pressure of the factory and then real failures coukd be investigated thoroughly, more fixes identified and then recalls / modifications etc.

We'll never get a concensus on this just as the industry (manufacturers and dealers) will never sort their acts out fully and consistently.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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A good friend of mine discovered a crack in his rear subframe two months ago... A 2005 BMW M3... BMW have paid for the £4k job to be done at his local dealer.

FYI (and it's slightly irrelevant) but that isn't a great example in this case. The E46 subframe cracks are a known problem and are covered under a 10yr bodywork warranty. Your friend's 2005 model just qualified before that particular warranty expired.

Edited to add: the rear subframe also isn't considered to be a consumable. ;)

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Fair enough Barry and B73. All valid points.

A Clutch claim is always going to be a difficult one to judge.

Out of interest what's the bodywork warranty on a Lotus? Just Paintwork or are non painted bodywork components included?

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I work for a mercedes van dealer, we get allsorts of clutch issues which being a frictional part which is open to all sorts of driver inflicted pain.

All frictional items clutch, pads, discs even wipers arent covered under warranty.

Clutch claims at low mileage whilst in warranty never get a full paid claim, maybe a contribution.

A sports car could have had 1 hard track day before it was traded in, the dealers in my game dont make thousands or even 1 thousand pound on a sale most of the time so the dealer being a franchise cant just swallow the cost with out a loss somewhere.

£500 seems a decent contribution on these grounds but i do feel your pain.

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  • 2 months later...

Sadly I'm now stuck with no clutch :(

It happened before and Silverstone replaced the fluid and fitted the heat shielding but this time we've bled it out and the fluid seems fine.

The pedal doesn't disappear to the floor it just doesn't engage the clutch enough to get it in gear.  My gut feeling is it's hydraulic as opposed to the clutch itself so I'm going to replace the Master Cylinder first up then head back to the Slave before succumbing to the Clutch itself.

Whether I can justify keeping the car after fixing it is another matter to address later :(

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Mines MY11.  i've got the bullet-in http://49210a70594045aae060-9ee7f563068e7bbd2f9eb533a1de6b33.r31.cf3.rackcdn.com/59333_1362492826_sb_2013_02_Manual_Evora_Plastic_Clutch_Master_Cylinder_Replacement_Issue_3.pdf to check the vin and do a visual inspection then I'll call Lotus.  Although it is out of warranty.

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Sorry to here Alun. It might be worth having a look at this thread...

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f170/another-clutch-mc-failure-but-334697/

The older master cylinder was made of metal (MY10) so it might be worth seeking out one of those to use as a replacement rather than the plastic one used from MY11 onwards.

http://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?MAK=1&MDL=20&TBL=5646&SMA=1&SMO=20&ST=Clutch&SC=0

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Jim - why replace it with the earlier model? AFAIK they're the ones that are known to be dodgy and are replaced with the latter ones. 

Alun - still try your luck with Lotus dealers. It's a bulletin and should be covered.

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10 hours ago, Kalli said:

Jim - why replace it with the earlier model? AFAIK they're the ones that are known to be dodgy and are replaced with the latter ones. 

The latter ones, as in the plastic master cylinders from MY11 onwards? Alun has a MY11.

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15 hours ago, JAWS said:

The latter ones, as in the plastic master cylinders from MY11 onwards? Alun has a MY11.

I think all the master cylinders have some level of issue to be honest...

its a 4 hour job to swap it out so that's happening next week.

slave and dampener next if that doesn't work out...

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