free hit
counters
Here is what I am having to deal with here in MD - Treasured Motorcar Services - Esprit Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
MikieP

Here is what I am having to deal with here in MD - Treasured Motorcar Services

Recommended Posts

I would appreciate any "opinions" you all might have:

 

Here are the last two billings from Treasured Motorcar Services here in Maryland with my comment notes...  Afraid to actually look hard at earlier ones now. I was given 5 days to rebutt their rebuttal and that ends today, two of the days were Sat and Sun....  "Alan" is the Shop Manager....

 

TMS Billings.pdf

 

Here are my Credit Card Charge Back request and TMS's reply.

 

CC and TMS reply.pdf

 

I will be sitting here monitoring most of the night for any comments. Thanks, fellas.

 

MikieP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Off bed. Thanks for reading. Hope to hear whether I am right, wrong, wasting my time, a mix or just biting the Esprit bullet and need to clench my sphincter further. Point is, for me at least is that now, can I trust ANYTHING on this car now? Thanks to all that waste their time reading the PDF's. Will check in in the morning.3:39 AM here and sliding off the chair.

 

Good evening.

 

MikieP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a high labour charge.  They don't know what they're doing but they're charging you for the time as they learn on the car.  This has happened to a mate of mine from the States.  He has a 1988 Turbo (with Bosch fuel injection).  Cost him $6000 for an engine rebuild, which lasted 3 weeks and it's blown again and they're not taking responsibility.  They didn't have a clue about the car.

 

I'd settle from half their amount and try and find someone reputable to work on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is always going to be very difficult finding anyone competent to work on these cars. This lot certainly aren't. Probably fine with Detroit iron but an Esprit is going to be something they have never seen before, have no knowledge of and are, frankly, waltzing in the dark. I have never paid anyone to work on a car and been totally happy with the result....which accounts for my greasy fingernails..... 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest. I feel the same as John.

I am doing everything myself on the car. And I admit, I am making mistakes, when doing things for the first time. I just take my time and don't count my searching on internet and working hours. If I had to pay these to a garageshop at a rate of 50€/h , I was long broke. And I just don't expect , that even a skilled mecanic, but one that has no knowledge of an old lotus esprit, will do the job better then me, especially because I am really getting to know the car very well. Now this skilled mecanic would do it better IF he was given the time, I take for myself to learn and do a job.

I feel that lots of people, who don't do maintenance themselve, are not aware of the time that even simple jobs can take .f.e. getting the exhaust header of.......  Sometimes, you can work on a rusted bolt for 2 hours (when it brakes). Explain that to someone who has to pay a 100€ for loosening that bolt....

After some time, things get easier. I have touched and renewed most of the mecanical things, so the second time you have to unbolt them is much easier.

 

Now lots of people , I know are exited about my Esprit. Most of them I reasure NOT to buy one. They wouldn't be happy with it, because I just know, this aint the sort of car , that comes for free. And there are already to many Esprits that are neglected.

 

I am sorry to read about your bills.

Edited by gvy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ENG0 has got things thing wrong too. The boost control solenoid is meant to be plumbed in between the compressor housing and the wastegate actuator.

 

Regarding the horn, I'm not too familiar with the SE set up but isn't the compressor in the front boot or behind the radiator?

 

Not sure about the chronological order of the work that was undertaken but the "diagnostic scan" would have revealed whether the ECT sensor was faulty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you really LOVE it you need to either work on it yourself or find someone you can 100% trust who know what they are doing by experience on these cars.  If you don't love it that much in your position I would get back as much as I can off the bill  and then sell the car  as you will end up in this position next time it needs work.

 

The odd thing is these are just cars with 4 wheels on the road and one inside the car.  The 4 pot engine isn't even anything  fancy by modern standards.   I think access and rusty bolts put a lot of people off as  a 1 hour jobs might  take 6 hours of  dismantling ( to do it right) and availability of parts may not be great outside of the UK. 

 

I do sometime think they reach a point where a total and I do mean total rebuild is needed which is never going to be cost effective  even doing it yourself. Otherwise you sort one problem which then exposes another and so it goes on and on.

 

I tried to use a sort of glass half full approach on mine when it got gritty.  I wouldn't have to do that job again was what I told myself.  However I can imagine that wearing a bit thin if I was writing a cheque each time rather than suffering  from spanner rash.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Malcolm

Spot on!

 

I do everything maintenance wise on mine.  To be honest I couldn't really afford to have them if I didn't.  Certainly not two anyway.

They are 30 year old cars and nothing difficult on them. Just awkward and rusty.  Engine rebuild needs extreme care however.

 

 

I get so cheesed off with people selling a car that say £10000 spent in the last 18 months.  To me mostly means very little as possibly £7500 is labour. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel for your bad experience with this company, Michael.

Based on your earlier experience with them, if it was my car, I would probably have steered clear by not going to give them the car for new/other/same repair Work.

While the working hour is in my view cheap by Danish standards, it does not relate to the US, where prices may be very different.

Honestly, the thing that they pick up your car free of charge is, at least, a bit of monetary comfort. I know many other car repair shops would charge me for picking up the car.

I went to the Danish importer/official seller/repair Company in Copenhagen, to ask if they had an Esprit for sale, and what to look for, and they just fell off their chairs laughing, and told me, that they would never take in a second hand Esprit, nor sell one. In fact, they advised me to get another brand of sportscar...

Since then, I decided to do it myself if at all possible. I am certainly a newbie to all Things Esprit/Lotus, but I take my time and use this great forum.

I read up and Down the bookshelves and forums on the Esprit before buying, and I told myself I would not tune it or change it much (well, more or less), but keep an eye out for eliminating the typical faulty areas and take a preventative approach.

While I fully understand that some people would not do this, or not have time, or making more money at their work so it would be cheaper just to pay a bill, instead of doing the work themself, or having not the facility that is needed to do some of this, or being prevented by their physical state or any of this combined, I would then take the approach I think I mentioned earlier in another thread: that is calling on some friends or asking here if someone is more or less near to give advice, perform Work or just help doing it.

Do you have the Lotus Service Notes?

And do you have the Lotus Parts List for your car?

If not, pm me.

I also understand that a series of these not very pleasant experiences and bills like these, may kill some enthusiasm, but I don't agree on selling the Esprit. I'd keep it and repair it.

Then I'd go enjoy it.

Regarding parts prices, I have been amazed of how cheap many parts are, compared to say my Corrado G60, but then again, some parts seems to be of sub-standard in quality or workmanship or just plain old design or ... At least there seems to be some good alternatives from some various manufactures to some parts. The PO of my Esprit (1990 SE lhd) had a knowledgable friend do a lot of tasks, and I try to keep up this. Over time, it'll hopefully be a reliable fast Esprit. Well, it already is. I think that many stories of the Esprit being bad, are not really related to the car, but more to the bad workshops that some customers experience, aka your own experience.

So, to cut it short, firstly:

I would fight for getting some Money back, incl. the hours that the shop manager agreed with you to refund back to you.

Secondly, I would send out a HELP! for anyone in your state or around, to aid you in getting these issues on the car solved asap.

Sorry I am too far away and unexperienced, but if you were within say some 500kms, I'd pay you a weekend visit and have some beers and a barbecue steak as "payment". Well, actually I am a non-drinking vegetarian ;) so a sandwich with chese woud be great. That is what friends are for (too).

Thirdly: if they or you take it to small claims Court (or whatever they call it in the US), think carefully if it's worth it. You may win in time, finally, but it may not be worth it for you own life quality.

I really hope you have it solved to your satisfaction.

 

Kind regards,

Jacques (from Denmark).

 

ps: I have the V8 AWI Monobloc Wheels and have no issues what so ever.

Some parts will not be available, as Lotus have not had Money to make any for years, and are focussing on new cars as well. Some will have to be made, and brake cables are some that is possible to fabricate. So is the turbo support bracket.

I have a friend who is very skillfull with a lathe etc, but I am not, and I have to run around all the time and ask/pay to have small Things made. That is just how it is. I chose to have a job, where I use my head, not a lot of machines. But I see that many enthusiast cars and motorcycles are owned by people WHO are skillfull with mechanics. Everything can be learned ;)

 

Question: Are this Company member of some sort of branch organisation, that you could take matters up with, to try and find a satisfactory soloution for all parties? We have such a thing here in Denmark, and most people use that as a security, when they chose a company to entrust their car to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a thought, but are there any car clubs accessible to you that cherish European ( ideally Lotus, obviously) Marques?

Given your experiences with the" professionals" , it seems you couldn't do any worse with help from enthusiastic amateurs...at least they would have the patience and drive to help see another classic back on the road.

As commented by others, take what financial reductions you can from TMS and move on, one way or the other.

Best of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

 

Thanks for you all of your comments. I bought car with assurances from Yesteryear Motors (Jaime Goffaux) that I would be taken care. 15 months later, engine still in boxes it gets moved to TMS which resulted in these beautiful results. No where else to go. I was busy all day refuting TMS's rebuttal and now have to run off to a club meeting but will give better replies to all tomorrow. Nice to hear what others think. They even charged me $139 for A/C fill up in an earlier bill I noticed last night when I ad already brought them my own 30 lb jug! It is all driving me so crazy. No other shop around that I know of so guess selling the car after $35K into her leaves not much other choices now that I have burned a bridge that fell out from underneath me with their lying bills and shoddy work. I am lucky to be able to change oil myself. Even thought of buying a lift for the new house's 3 car garage but two replaced hips and being 69 is not probably all that smart a move. More later tomorrow. Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am with the crowd that believes if you can't work on these cars yourself, and you can't stomach these types of charges, you shouldn't own the car.

 

A hard lesson to learn so late in life, but it's still a learning experience.

 

I had a similar experience as you when I bought my V8, and it was expensive, but I'm not living paycheck to paycheck.  Now I do everything on my car myself, and when I can't do it anymore, I am selling it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say the question being posed here is not whether someone can afford to pay a third party to work on their car or that they should only work on it themselves but it is about being unfairly charged for the work undertaken. Lets not have the thread wandering off track please :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks fellas. I appreciate all your comments. I did research the Esprit here and other forums to have some idea of what I could expect from it and what it would be expecting from me so several conversations were had with Jaime at his Yesteryear Motors months before even looking for an Esprit. There is very little negative commentary about him or his shop to be found so no warnings were found to avoid him. He worked for and supported the McGovern race team here in Maryland, running I believe an X180 sporting a number 12 or a 14 and raced it on various courses here and even took it to an event in England during 2012 for everyone to see. He truly did seem to know what he was doing and could do and seemed very positive about agreeing with my limited proposals and the budget.

 

I simply did not expect him to never do the work in a year and half. I did not expect him to steal the aluminum gas tanks that he told me I had in the car. I did not expect him to steal my transmission internals nor lie about getting it cryo-treated and billing me for said service. I did not expect nor ever discuss completely tearing the block which he did. i did expect him to sell me a WC Engineering Turbo, Injectors and ECU (it is on one of his billings to me) as he told me he had talked to John and told me he had started building these things again and billed me for the complete kit and shipping at around $3100. However according to Mr. Welch, none of these parts most definitely were not from him. So much for strike one.

 

Looking around left me apparently no choice but Treasured Motorcar Services to begin again however with the engine in boxes this time and 20 months later. No aluminum tanks now, a completely unknown Turbo Charger, injectors that probably are no match for the unknown Turbo Charger and a dead ECU from WC Engineering. John Welch has been the ONLY ray of sunshine throughout this entire period a (other than the help received here on TLF) of ownership and a mechanic named Jim at TMS now no longer with Treasured Motorcar. Everyone else has turned into one steaming pile of shite.

 

Lies, fraudulent billing for work not done but billed, double billing for work done wrongly and billed again to redo it, misdiagnosed and billed "fixes" that did not correct or solve the issues at hand. It is not the car, nor its design nor its age nor the owner. i was prepared financially to do C services every three years without any qualms, change the oil every 3K miles, put real TAFX in her transmission (I have some that I may be selling now), keeping good tires on her new Saturns that according to Alan at TMS will not fit on the car and never power shift the car as Alan (TMS Service Manager) always did (with me in the car!). Phucking prick.

 

It is the incompetence, the greed, the lies, the foul customer treatment, the obvious lack of quality control, the lack of taking responsibility for any of these things, the mistreatment of the car by TMS - fresh engine rebuild completed and with something like 20 miles on it, and then driving it as if it were on a drag strip. Tell me, how does one do a Diagnostic Scan on a 1992 build without Freescan or Espritmon. TMS says they did and have neither. It has broken my heart and thereby broken my wife's to watch this debacle over the past three years. There are apparently no other sources of expertise that I can seem to locate anywhere in my area. I am a member of a tiny Lotus Club branch here in the Washington, D.C. area but no one seems to be wrench worthy and are apparently wealthy enough to not concern themselves with TMS bills and screwups so the search continues. I suppose it will appear on eBay as one of you suggested.

 

Funny, the car had simple problems before delivering it to Jaime, like the hand brake not releasing fully all the time, the A/C not lasting the complete summer season and one of three fans needing replacement and then I sought out the creeps and liars and thieves to fix these issues.

 

Anyone reading this want to make me an offer? PM me. Again, I appreciate your candor and help here more than I can express at this time. Keep these things running, guys. They are a most beautiful car.

 

MikieP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Philip,

 

In a nutshell, I am certainly not living paycheck to paycheck. i have a couple mil to put my hands on. I have a small 6000' house near the beach. I am concerned about the breach of faith, the lies, the incompetence, the theft, the utter failures in diagnosis, the inability to repair, the double billings, the fraudulent billings, the theft of 13 pounds of my own freon (R-12) provided to TMS to fill my A/C system and then even being billed $139 for freon. These kinds of things are what concern me where my Esprit is concerned. I do not mind, nor did I EVER mind paying a fair bill for competent workmanship and being taken proper care of when servicing agents screwed things up. It does not appear this car has a chance in the area I live in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

 

You do have a good point and there are probably lots of them. I have not looked further afield than the tiny club I now belong to here but not much proffered from them, though I have not asked anything of them as yet. I put all my trust in the professionals doing their jobs. That day is over now and I do have a club meeting this Thursday so questions will be asked of them and I will see what replies are. Thank you for the suggestion. i really do not like imposing my problems on others, other than here anyway so this will be a new line to follow up on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jacques!

 

I have the only Shop manual I have ever found and it is for cars one build later than mine, mine was built in Nov 92 per the door jamb plate. It is a 93MY and newer. I do have the Parts Lists and the part substitution lists. JAE knows what will fit most things as well. I have worked on cars in my early years though mostly electric issues. I am too many joint problems to even get into the boot. Adjusting the alternator belt would actually bust me up pretty well. Many on here do their own work and I feel so happy for them and know they both save money and get a world of satisfaction doing so and believe me, that would certainly be the best avenue of course, but it simply is not going to happen. I can deal with tiring, wheels, some electric issues, i.e. I repaired the horns myself, set up the radio, TPS, ground plane for the antenna, install new lifts in the boot, adjusted door hinges, replaced bulbs, but laying down under the dash, getting over the engine, nope.

 

$120/hr labor here is relatively high as the average shop rate in this region currently is around $90 or so. Parts pricing is not an issue other than the transmission. JAE has been really helpful and reasonable as far as costs go. $600 for my LSD. TMS is an independent shop. Here in the US, there are very few consumer protections other than courts. Flip a coin there.

 

They picked the car because their work broke. Yes, glad they did, but their nuts fell off, they over tightened the belts. Well, you get the picture. Yes, I know the wheels fit the car, an S4 living about 20 miles away has the Saturns (17x8.5 fronts and 18x10 rears) on his without issues, I have seen many cars with them on with only a possible touching on full lock. The shop manager simply told me they will not fit the car and he is the king at TMS.

 

Believe me, if I could do it all, I would. Thank you for your comments as they are very positive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Malcolm,

 

You are right of course. Doing it all yourself is best in many ways. The satisfaction of getting it done right is better than winning a lottery. I have a friend that is a SAAB Master mechanic and and has serviced my era 1980 900T's for 20 years. He had a stroke and can no longer do this sort of work. He was the best. Absolutely the most knowledgeable, cautious, careful, indignantly correct in what and how he did the work. He helped write some of their shop manuals if that gives an idea.

 

The car had 28,000 miles on it when the suspension (springs, shocks and bushings) was completely replaced and reset simply due to its age. I do not have a problem doing what should be done. The cyl psi was a 145, 145, 144 and 146. And then Jaime tore it down to the bare block. Why? Never ever discussed anything below the Intake manifold be done to the car. Just WC Kit, an LSD and suspension replacement. Never would tell me why he did that. Hell, he may have taken my engine and given me back boxes of parts laying around his shop. Basically, that, began the end of this car. Bad luck for a beautiful coach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark,

 

We agree, they do not know what they are doing. Even I can read the bills' obvious errors and obfuscations. Obvious, but getting them to admit it is quite another thing it seems. Getting the Credit Card company to believe it is yet another as well. They need someone not so interested in stealing money, rather in turning out quality work and actual quality control. I see Rolls, gullwings, et al in their bays, and somehow I have to wonder what happened to me, or are the others not noticing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Derek,

 

Button pressed and it sounded as though it is indeed in the dash or right close to it in the boot. I found the horns, gave them a good blow from a shop's air compressor loosely coupled to the tee and the diaphragms freed themselves and now work fine. So much for TMS skills. I did not look further for the compressor and its location as it was no longer a need to know. Even I knew air horn diaphragms can stick without occasional use. The professionals charged me for basically a complete lack of skill sets. Or perhaps they just billed me for the heck of it hoping to further bill me for a "bad compressor" later on that could be currently and readily heard running when the horn button was pressed anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Geert and John,

 

OF course you are both correct. If I do decide to try and keep this yellow jacket, that course of action will be the only solution I feel certain. But my AVN will have to stop destroying my joints pretty damned quickly. lol. Lifting a 20lb box of cat food makes my hips feel like there is 450 pounds of pressure on the joints instead of my current 150 There lies the rub, to quote someone, I forget whom. No, not really. Greasy fingernails are not a concern. lol. You are lucky you are able to do such and have developed the skill set. I do envy you both. Cheers.


Off to bed for me now. If I missed any one, I apologize. Not intentional. Just running out of eyesight. Tip one for me.

 

MikieP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Michael, I feel for you.....I'm waiting for my left shoulder to recover from the dislocation I inflicted on it three weeks ago. That wouldn't be too bad, but I had done the same thing to the right shoulder back in 2000, and that left me with half a rotator cuff and a bust axillary nerve...fortunately the nerve regrew, but the arm has never got back to normal. In compensation, I was originally left handed (until I fell down the stairs aged 4 and broke the left arm!) so I have reverted to type. Now the left arm is dangly, it's all a bit tedious. Happily for me, the previous experience stands me in good stead and I can look forward to the thing getting better over the next year or so....six months should make it properly usable, if not "right"....probably never be "right" again, but I'll manage!

I hope your problems resolve themselves, too!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John,

 

OMG. Both! WTF did you do??? Holy cow. The pints over there are that heavy now? I have been told that if, not when as it is almost a certainty, when either of my hips dislocate, giving birth is less painful. I carry Dilaudid on my person just in case. During both of my hip surgeries, they severed the outside quad nerve and neither has regrown in the ten years post surg so I have 3/4 of my legs now and have to sit down to put on socks as I can not lift either leg high enough put on pants as well. I was also told my right arm needs surgery from AVN but my primary care doc told me that no one over 50 should have it done as a full year of PT and misery is to be expected and being almost 70 is not conducive to a good recovery. Just love it! Perhaps I should have given that some more thought before getting my dream car and what happens if what has happened, happens. lol. AVN does not resolve into anything but replacement, pain or voluntary loss of use to avoid the pain at some point. So far ankles and wrists are OK. i can still push the S4s clutch in! but steering the non-PS at low speed has become a bit of a bother.

 

I am so sorry to hear, BUT the good news is that your nerve regrew and I understand that is like 70% of the full recovery? Assume you can still shift gearing? Managing is all that is available for me at this point - like my SAAB fella - taste works on only half of his tongue and the entire left side of his body has no feeling, sense of touch, etc. at all. I simply can not even imagine dealing with that situation, Even his peenie has split sensation. How weird things get when age says it is time. Wishing you a fast, complete recovery of course. Do you have power steering i hope?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say the question being posed here is not whether someone can afford to pay a third party to work on their car or that they should only work on it themselves but it is about being unfairly charged for the work undertaken. Lets not have the thread wandering off track please :)

 

I would say it's not worth talking about being unfairly charged for work on this forum.  That's just a broken record in the automotive industry.  

 

If you are happy or unhappy with the service you received, just post up a review on the section in this forum for reviews on shops, and call it done.

http://www.thelotusforums.com/reviews/

 

If you think you have a good chance of having good work done by some local shop that you don't have any previous experience, on a car that is old, and known for many issues, and extremely rare so mechanics won't invest the time to learn about, and a car that is owned by people that when compared to other exotics don't want to spend any money on it, then you have something to learn from this thread.  Because you're living in a dream world.

 

The only good options for this OP is to either sell the car at a big loss, which he can use some of his millions to buy a beer to drown his sorrows, or crack open his wallet with a crowbar and pay the bucks to ship the car to a shop that can truly be trusted to fix it.  And when it needs major work, budget again and again to have the car shipped to a trusted shop.  

 

One thing that will help the OP to feel better about paying the extra money to keep the Esprit running is to buy a Ferrari.  After he gets the first bills just for the replacement parts on a Ferrari, never mind the labor, he'll feel like it's a bargain to pay a couple grand for round trip shipping to a shop to have his Esprit fixed.

 

He's not that far away from RS in New Jersey (around 200 miles) that is known for doing great work at a premium on these cars.  He could even trailer the car himself.

Edited by lotusespritse
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Philip,

 

Not being a mechanic, nor wanting to become one at my age should not preclude ownership of an Esprit. Whether I have sufficient funds or not to put into any car should not mean that I should simply overlook and accept what I consider to be malfeasance, fraud, incompetence, double billings, failure to correctly diagnose, lack of quality control and allow someone to refuse their responsibility for their failures to perform their tasks in accordance with acceptable standards and just eat it, does it?

 

This is the first vehicle I have ever owned that seems to have problems getting satisfactory basic maintenance from sources that have represented themselves as specialists on this model that I have tried so far. Let's be real, this car is not all that complicated compared to current production BMW, etc. The only true difficulty is the access which is impossible due to my own shortcomings in physical prowess. How much skill does it take to look under the car once back on the ground to see if the newly installed hand brake cables are clear of interferences? Or that lock nuts are used rather than lock washers on heat cycling materials? Or that battery terminals are secured? Not much. I trade money for relatively basic skill sets only to find a tremendous amount of B/S. Yes, the engine seems to run barring the smelly crap coming out on start up and that does scare me a bit that something internally is off, but it does run. Never mind the blow off valve blew off its mount during an early morning run the other day. That I could and did repair it although it did scare the crap out of me when it occurred and getting home to diagnose and repair the car without having any boost was a bit disconcerting until I saw what had happened. Failures to secure things properly. The battery terminal I was able to install and secure but why should I have to look at these things? Would you not be upset to find these sorts of overlooked, rather simplistic yet critical oversights on your car after getting it back from a professional shop after getting an oil change? Finding out that two nuts had left their bolts on the turbo is not part of a daily inspection. Noting that several screws have been lost from the under tray is not something anyone would consider normal or routine to inspect every time the car is driven.

 

The reason for this post was to acquire others' opinions from a place I feel is full of knowledgeable people where many seem to be far more intimately familiar with an Esprit than I ever will.be and allow me to understand what happened at this shop and to my car. I have no desire to rate this shop, as I am not competent to do that but I can read. I continue to look for other opinions. Whether I may have OR may not have money to spend maintaining this car is completely immaterial to this discussion. Finding a shop that actually gives a damn is. For goodness sakes, my local Toyota dealer does better work on my Venza  far more complicated than my Esprit. And when they scratch a wheel during a rotation, they fix it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×