free hit
counters
Lotus Evora 400 - Page 21 - Evora Chat - The Lotus Forums Jump to content


Lotus Evora 400


Recommended Posts

  • Gold FFM

$112K USA is pretty darn steep competition territory.

 

100k      GT-R  545HP with AWD      7:19  ringtime

100k      Vette Z06 /Zr1   650HP  with Magnetic adj. suspension   7:19 ringtime

90-120  Porsche (as mentioned)    7:19 ringtime

90-120  Maserati

95k       Viper  645 HP   RWD V10   7:12 ringtime

 

...  and let's not forget the $70k , top end American muscle cars like Ford GT500 Mustang,  Chevy Z-28 Camaro, and 707HP Dodge Hellcat.  They are laying down some pretty great ring times too... like 7:37.47  for the Z-28.

 

I ask you, is the Lotus 400 ready to hang with these cars?  I am very curious to find out how well it does.

 

I'm not saying the 400 won't be a blast to drive, it will!    and I still want one! 

But does that justify the price 'if' it can't run with these big dogs?

 

The "Ring" is not the be all and end all, after all how many cars with great "Ring" times are actually bitches to live with as the ride is too darnn hard and unforgiving (Most German cars?)

 

All the cars you list are huge multi-national corporates that sell hundreds of thousands if not millions of cars a year and you are comparing, on price, a Lotus that barely sells 3,000 cars worldwide with them. Not a fair comparison in my mind. And also, If I'm spending £70k or more on a car, I like the fact that people will be intridued as to what my car is and I won;t see many on the road. You can;t say that about Vette's (in the US), Mustangs, GTR's, Porkpies, etc....

 

Look, at the end of the day sometimes you buy the Lotus BECAUSE you don't want any of the above.  We can all justify the purchase of a 400 to ourselves, and at the end of the day who cares what others think?

 

Would I have a Mustang, even a Shelby one - hell no. A GTR - no thanks, just think it looks ugly and heavy (which it is). The Porsche - no, I don't want my kids to think I'm either a dentist or a winker!.  The Maser, hmmm, now maybe and as for the Vette, yes, if it was in RHD I'd consider it, but probably go for the Evora 400 'cause at the end of the day it will drive and handle better.

 

But then I'm biased. And I know it. And damn it, I just dont care... :)

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.
  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I've not driven an Evora until last week. I drove over to Hofmann's in my 991 deliberately to make the back to back comparison. To echo Dave's points I was not disappointed with the cabin feel and qua

Good news!! I just got a call from the dealer.  Lotus sends apologies all around for the confusion and will be building the vehicle exactly as my order specified.   The color is officially no longer

Middle of next week

Posted Images

Lotus stated that the USA market is 'critical' to their future plans.  I'm only trying to point out what they are up against here.

Small company - big company...  no one cares if its a fair comparison.

If a consumer is willing to drop X amount of dollars on a performance car, they are expecting X amount of performance for that dollar.   Ferrari, Audi, subaru..  whatever..  You just want to feel like you get what you pay for when you cross-shop the price range.

 

pretty simple.   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget that the £72k price includes taxes.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the $ price is roughly $72k. (That is generally how UK/US prices work when things from here are sold over there).

 

 

This.  

 

 

$112K USA is pretty darn steep competition territory.

 

100k      GT-R  545HP with AWD      7:19  ringtime

100k      Vette Z06 /Zr1   650HP  with Magnetic adj. suspension   7:19 ringtime

90-120  Porsche (as mentioned)    7:19 ringtime

90-120  Maserati

95k       Viper  645 HP   RWD V10   7:12 ringtime

 

 

 

Here's what we would pay in the UK for these cars (and I've put the equivalent in US$ using todays rate of 1.57):

 

Admittedly the Viper is not sold in the UK officially so a little hard to do the comparisons, but you should get the idea...

NissanGTR £78,000 ($122,460) no options

Porker 911 Carrera £73,500 ($115,395) no options

Maser Gran Turismo £82,890 ($130,137)no options

 

This isn't me disagreeing with you Brian, but we kind of get a slightly differing pricing model over here, so the list price doesn't really seem that high when you consider you'll be getting a ton of kit included in the Lotus that will be options for the three above..

 

The US is such a critical market - you won't be paying anything like the currently exchange rate of $113K, in fact I'm guessing that it will be below $100K - and possibly by a decent whack

Link to post
Share on other sites

USA price is $89,900 (excluding local sales taxes) according to the press release.

 

Note to self.  Re-read the press release... :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM

Admittedly the Viper is not sold in the UK officially so a little hard to do the comparisons, but you should get the idea...

NissanGTR £78,000 ($122,460) no options - ACTUAL US PRICE TODAY NEW - $102k base (in GBP at today's rate £65k)

Porker 911 Carrera £73,500 ($115,395) no options - AUS PRICE TODAY NEW - $88k base (in GBP  - £56k)

Maser Gran Turismo £82,890 ($130,137)no options - ACTUAL US PRICE TODAY NEW - $133k (in GBP - £85k)

 

Lotus EVora 400 - US Price $90k which equals a UK price, at today's rate of £57k!!!!!  A £15k difference.

 

I know, the Government probably gets most of the difference in the Uk in Taxes.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's hard to convey to potential customers what driving a Lotus feels like until you get them behind the wheel for a real drive.  This is a critical step Lotus needs to focus on.  How do you get new customers behind the wheel?

 

Performance data is great, but if the consumer does not get the Lotus experience, read stats don't convey the experience. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM

£79k list for my perfect next new car. It's a bargain but too rich for me, so can someone please order one as follows:

 

Evora 400 base in White (pearl)

Red Leather

Cruise

Forged Wheels

 

When it's five years old with around 20k miles I should be able to afford to buy it from you.....     :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Press release said $89k ?   OK. that is better than $112k.    (yay for me!)

 

So let's take the hard look at the 400.

 

Moses, The Lotus experience TOTALLY IS hard to convey.  I agree it needs a better marketing campaign behind it specifically.

 

Andy, I feel the Lotus is actually a bit light on options.  Corvettes have heated/air conditioned seats now... Heads up display... driver selectable ride-control dampers, active-bypass exhaust , just to name a few.  and they do it all with the same weight as the Evora with a heavy v8 ( NA and even supercharged v8). 

 

On a personal note, I will also add that an LSD should have been standard on Espirts and every Lotus ever since.  A car company that survives on its reputation for suspension and handling should have accepted that the benefits of an LSD far exceed the little bit of extra weight it adds, back in the 1990's like so many other manufactures did.

 

As for suspension,now with dampers being controlled from the drivers seat, either via mag-ride or 32-position servos like the TEIN system, Lotus may find even the most 'perfect' static factory tuned setup is tough to market against dynamic setups where the driver gets to do what they want.

 

So what is my point?  I don't know... I guess I just want to see Lotus reflect its heritiage.  The 400 won't be the lightest, it won't be the fastest in a straight line, it won't be the stickiest  (base model corvettes now pull over 1g lateral).  It won't be the most technologically advanced...  so what is Lotus's 'differentiator'?    Driver experience I guess..  The one thing that doesn't present well on paper, and is sort of already claimed in marketing by BMW  (the ultimate driving experience). 

 

( btw, this soapbox is me trying to HELP.  haha.  Lotus..  You have got to stand for something, and demonstrate it flawlessly, or you won't survive and I will cry. )

 

I will do my part and get a 400 and drive it for everyone to see.  But Lotus doesn't make it easy to explain to friends that for the same money I could have gone 0-60 faster, or turned harder, or had more this or that.  No sir, the only answer to that question is to hand them the keys and let them understand for themselves. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

£79k list for my perfect next new car. It's a bargain but too rich for me, so can someone please order one as follows:

 

Evora 400 base in White (pearl)

Red Leather

Cruise

Forged Wheels

 

When it's five years old with around 20k miles I should be able to afford to buy it from you.....     :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:  :harhar:

 

White, yes. I would also have (if I had any money), the black pack and the full alcantara interior as well. Cruise and forged wheels go without saying.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Weh hay!  Not as bad as I'd feared.   :thumbsup:

 

Still can't afford it anyway as a house to start and finish building first but by then the Targa will be out and any teething issues sorted out.  Yup Brandon, :secret: now can you just order your Targa demo in Ardent Red with black pack and cruise control.  Sorted.

A LEGS man and proud to declare it! Lotus Enthusiasts Group Scotland

Autocar's Best UK Drivers Car 2009. Car's Performance Car of the Year 2009; Evo's Car of the Year 2009. Top Gear Sports Car of the Year 2009

Link to post
Share on other sites

Lotus have traditionally avoided LSD's as they felt they compromised turn in too much.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 400 won't be the lightest, it won't be the fastest in a straight line, it won't be the stickiest  (base model corvettes now pull over 1g lateral).  It won't be the most technologically advanced...  so what is Lotus's 'differentiator'?    Driver experience I guess..  The one thing that doesn't present well on paper, and is sort of already claimed in marketing by BMW  (the ultimate driving experience).

 

In a nutshell, this is the main challenge that Lotus faces. Obviously, most of us have seen past the paper stats and been sold on the Lotus driving experience, but the average Joe will simply not get that far.

2016 Evora 400 | Signature Silver on Red Alcantara

Link to post
Share on other sites

Aurouge:

Is Lotus is planning on using a V8 570/650ps, 7 Speed Twin Clutch, Carbon Fibre tub, adaptable electronic/magnetic suspension, hard folding electric roof with Carbon Ceramic disks...?

No I don't suppose it is. But then, who needs all that when the Evora 400 Spider / Targa whatever will be 98% as good, 99% as fast on real roads, 97% or better on track and 50% of the price. I know where my smart money would go, but accept that some people just want to pose... :2guns:

I also buy an Exige as a toy with the £15k - £20k I won't need to spend on new Carbon Ceramic brakes after 3 years.

Hahahaha - each to his or her own, you earned it, you have the right to spend it how you want. :) :) :)

98% as good as a Ferrari 458 Italia... Hmmm okay

post-15194-0-49098900-1431992845.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends what you consider the 458 to be good at. The Evora has nicer steering, better ride, more accommodation, is more discreet, more economical and it's also rarer!

For impressing others and making a wealth statement the Ferrari wins hands down. It's also much quicker on the autobahn but is it really any faster A to B on the road? I think we all know it isn't for the same reason that nothing will get you to B meaningfully quicker than a Golf R on the road. And don't forget that Ferrari used the Evora as a benchmark during the 458's development.

I'd much rather have a manual Evora than a shouty auto Ferrari. That might seem like rose tinted specs to some but I just know I'd enjoy driving the Evora more, more of the time. the Speciale however, that's a different matter...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

If Ferrari used the Evora for a benchmark, what levels (handling I presume) and did they beat it?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO the challenge for Lotus is to appeal to a far wider audience. There aren't enough rich faithful Lotus fans to make a profit and ultimately that's what business is all about.

Some of the adverse comments about the 400 remind me of Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares - when the restaurant is failing because the manager won't change the menu for fear of losing the 5 regulars that turn up every other Thursday despite the restaurant being 95% empty.

JMG seems to get it - as pretty as the bespoke buttons are in the current car, it is IMHO a design FAIL that I can't bloody see them from the driver's seat! There is IMHO a big difference between special and quirky! Would an Audi interior in a car that was actually fun to drive really upset people?

Link to post
Share on other sites

If Ferrari used the Evora for a benchmark, what levels (handling I presume) and did they beat it?

 

It was the steering and no Ferrari didn't beat it!

 

The Evora's power steering remains peerless.

 

The thing is, numb steering will still get you round a corner therefore it fulfils it's primary function. The secondary function is to communicate with the driver about the road surface and levels of front end grip. Most modern cars fail spectacularly at the latter despite it being the single biggest contribution to driving pleasure (an entirely sensory and emotive concept after all). Power steering typically sacrifices function 2 in exchange for easier parking and low speed manoeuvres. Such a compromise is out of place with a sports car, which is why the Exige V6 is such a tonic. The car's priorities are spot on.

 

The Evora remains one of the very few power steering systems left that delivers on both aspects. Porsche's 997 steering would be another example. That the move to EPAS hasn't hindered their success just shows you how little most punters care about steering. Maybe Lotus could make some savings by not bothering to dedicate countless man hours to perfecting a steering system. They could spend the time instead on 'what the market wants'. The result would be an immeasurably poorer car and ultimately you'd end up with a Porsche or Audi with worse build quality. There might only be a few punters left in the restaurant but I don't think anyone at all would want to buy that.

 

They need to forget about Porsche and focus instead on doing what they do and do it well. The numbers are already picking up, amazing really considering the recent turmoil. If they get the next few cars right and really improve quality, they can only grow from here. Porsche went very quickly out of fashion in the late 80's, it can happen again. Ubiquity can cost you when you're promising something exclusive. Last time TVR benefitted hugely in the UK. TVR built a whole new range of cars and engines off the back of it. It could well be Lotus's turn next time round.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM

Gravel, re "Would an Audi interior in a car that was actually fun to drive really upset people? " The answer to this is YES!

 

A very good friend of mine with a long history of nice cars (F40, F50, 512, 360 Spider, F430, 911's, many classic Merc SL's, Bentley Arnages and GT's and Azures, etc etc) looked at an R8 and turned it down because (1) it was an Audi and (2) it had an Audi interior.  A current work colleague who has a highly modified 500+bhp R8 V8 hates the interior - it's just like a TT he says.

I wouldn't buy an Audi even if it was fun to drive, just hate the image and the fact they are two a penny. That's why I'm arguing for Lotus to do what it does, but better, get profitable but be content with it's niche.

 

There's a difference between being a profitable business and chasing bigger and bigger revenues and profits. And as for quirkiness / build quality the R6 cabin isn't pretty and the R6 is one of the least reliable cars according to JD Power / Which surveys. SO even the "big" profitable guys don't always get it right.

 

I know, I'll take the rose tinted spectacles off.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough C8RHK - the danger is that you'll end up getting asked for Pagani money if you want the same degree of bespokeness.

I just don't want to lose a hand trying to operate the drivers window switch! I could handle less bespoke switches as long as they were properly placed!

Link to post
Share on other sites

They're much more accessible in the 400 as the grab handle is deleted.

R8 run out the LMX is £160k and people are buying them. Imagine if they spent just 10 mins in an Evora...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Gold FFM

I get your point Gravel, I guess we both want the same thing - a strong healthy Lotus company with a strong and healthy product line up of cars we want to, and indeed do, enjoy driving. 

 

Have to admit, although the switches are awkward on the dash / centre console for the current Evora, people I've had in my car genuinely feel the love for the fact it is real metal and not plastic. They seem to love the fact that they believe it means the car was "engineered".  But then same people have not tried to use the mirror switch on the door from Ford, too much for my short fat hands.   hahahaha!

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...