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Bibs

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Damn, I wish Lotus would stop bringing out cars I want, I may have to remortgage!

 

Michael, while I understand your comment about the Evora400 sales figures being the important one, I think you underestimate cars like the 2-11, 3-11. The old man says their margins on the 2-11 outstripped selling multiple models of any other car at the time, so the 3-11 should be a money maker, making it equally important as the Evora 400 IMHO (at least till they are all sold). The money made on them (which should be substantial having smaller development costs and a high price) will really help development of other models. 

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Kimbers, my question about Evora 400 sales wasn't connected to the 3-11. The 3-11 looks like it's going to be a real hit and will add 150 - 160 or so cars to the sales figures for each of the next two years, but JMG wants to get to 3000 units p.a. pretty sharpish, so the Evora 400 needs to hit the ground running too.

 

I've absolutely no idea if Evora 400 orders to date are showing it to be an instant sales hit or not, hence the question to "insider" Bibs (or anyone else for that matter).

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The more I look at...the less I like it's sides and rear design.

I understand it wants to be innovative and aerodynamic, but it ends to be simply "strange" to my eyes (that didn't happen with 340 and 211)

At that price (> 120000 euro expected for a road version in my country) I need to fall in love with the car's design as well as with the astonishing performances it is capable of...and a windscreen and a little soft top for the road blasts without the use of an helmet which takes away half of the fun.

Hope they will transfer the engine upgrade, the LSD, the shorter gears to the next Exige Cup...keeping the look of the second as similar to the present as it is possible!

PS. I'm beginning to look at Caterham CSR260 market: very rare birds especially LHD but less than half the price of a 311, certainly not much slower up to 120 mph and paradoxically more practical for fast road use (send a PM if you sell one!)

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Sorry Giorgiozetta but I disagree. I think your comparing a McDonalds Cheeseburger (Caterham) with a prime Aberdeen Angus rib eye steak in a brioche bun with freshly fried onions.

Both are basically burgers......

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Damn, I wish Lotus would stop bringing out cars I want, I may have to remortgage!

 

Michael, while I understand your comment about the Evora400 sales figures being the important one, I think you underestimate cars like the 2-11, 3-11. The old man says their margins on the 2-11 outstripped selling multiple models of any other car at the time, so the 3-11 should be a money maker, making it equally important as the Evora 400 IMHO (at least till they are all sold). The money made on them (which should be substantial having smaller development costs and a high price) will really help development of other models. 

 

 

wasn't the 2-11 far closer to its originating derivative than the 3-11 which is basically a completely new car? ie its going to be expensive unless they carry over everything to say the new exige and it therefore basically becomes a development platform for it?

 

 

 

agree that if you want 3k plus volume a year it the evora and elige that will get you to those numbers (eventually).....

 

Can anyone confirm the wheelbase of the 3-11? is it actually the same as the current v6 exige or longer? 

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The Exige hasn't the room up front for the chargecooler rads etc, the 3-Eleven is significantly re-engineered for this. 

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Overall length maybe differnent with the body hang but wheel base will be the same as the V6 exige is.

The mechanicals will be the same as the V6 cupR Diego, so same as 2-11 in the sense its wearing its party frock or should that be bikini?

 

thanks

The Exige hasn't the room up front for the chargecooler rads etc, the 3-Eleven is significantly re-engineered for this. 

 

 

would it not be fair to assume the changes will just be carried over to the exige? 

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Not right now, it involves a whole redesign of the front end.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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All of which suggests that the new front end on the Evora 400 is form following function.

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If it's a completely new chassis it is still based on the small platform underpinings the Elise and Exige by the look of the tub. 

 

Sticking a roof to it would mean adding doors, a windshield, a rear window... which would mean extra weight and fitting the car with A/C, windscreen wipers, some form of interior however spartan... the car would then be much heavier...

 

Doors? Why?

 

I see a carbon hardtop with a light-weight race glass similar to the optional tonneau panel, connected somehow towards the front, possible to open right up from the back with a handle where the roll bar cover is. All you would have to do, is lift the roof up, jump in the car and pull the roof down with you when you sit down. Not rocket science exactly, and hardly more than 20-30 kg extra. Think this could even improve the aero of the car actually as well as give it an even cooler look + an additional audience for that kind of car immediately... 

 

Windscreen wipers is the only area I see they would have to be "conventional" to make it work out and include that in the design of this somehow, but apart from that, who says you would need A/C which is even optional today in e.g. the Exige??

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good news. but interesting priority's here. have they already written off the evora400 before its press actual launch ? 

 

a dirty evora mule at GFoS (which i believe is now 'the' place to convert into sales as opposed to traditional car shows) and all eyes on a newer ultra low volume product all press reports on a SUV due 2019 and JMG doing a DB and promising more and more new products very soon.

 

they are either total geniuses or completely stupid. only time will tell.....

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good news. but interesting priority's here. have they already written off the evora400 before its press actual launch ? 

 

 

I believe they are limiting production of 311's to 150 in year. So 3 months production is "only" around 45 cars. This leaves plenty of capacity for Evora400's which will no doubt outsell 311's, especially if they can sell them into the US.

 

Of course the Exige/Elise was much more loved in the US, and if a potential Exige 400 can meet the legislative requirements by taking lessons learnt in the Evora400 platform state side, I'm sure Lotus would be pretty busy fulfilling pent up US demand for a year or two.

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I hope it's not true but it's quite a persuasive conspiracy theory Diego.

 

You'd have thought Lotus would have learned by now that it's going to be a real struggle to offer an alternative to the 911 with loose change for a development budget. The Evora is a thing of wonder from the available resources, it really is, but it's a brilliant answer to a problem that doesn't exist. And you just don't get any points in the real world for doing an amazing job with a small budget. I suspect the 400 is the last roll of the dice for the Evora, I really hope it finds some buyers, it deserves to sell in far greater numbers but I suspect the obstacles that have inhibited Evora sales to date will not be overcome by a power increase and a few styling tweaks.

 

Good to hear the 311 is going well already. Having driven the V6 Cup today the mind boggles as to what that's going to be like to drive. With 105 more bhp and somewhere around 250kg less it'll be barking mad on the road for sure. It looks quite smart and refined for a track day car in the pictures but it's going to an absolute rabid animal to drive. A proper wonky-eyed, foaming at the mouth nut job!

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its not a conspiracy JP.... just an observation.... 

 

i would have had 3 different color (sedate to wild custom)  Evora400s on the stand and used the 311 to get attention to those not had the 311 center piece. the 'uninitiated' will not give a crap about an evora mule. and its the uninitiated you need to sell it to. I would have had a mule evora400 'cup' cammoed up (just a stripped out 400- ceramics and lowered with carbon tat) sitting out there called concept (get out clause). 

 

onto the exige. that was a new signature orange but tucked away inside.... a lovely color you couldn't see because the silly crate inside the small stand blocked out all natural light. 

 

very frustrating as we all want them to do well but ......

 

the ultra low volume 311 (a track car) stole everything else s thunder (and its PR was specifically designed to do so) .... v odd behavior! 

 

i think the 311 is fantastic but its the elige and evora sales volume that will make the real p&l.

 

so whats the game plan? 

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Isn't there some weird Goodwood tradition involving pre-prod prototypes? Regardless, it was a bit half-arsed for the Evora 400, I agree entirely, they should have and could have done so much more for an important new car in front of a very key audience. No doubt budgetary constraints were a factor and maybe the 'lunch launch specialists' advised that they should focus on the 311 for maximum impact and there is an argument in favour of that. So many new cars fighting for attention at Goodwood these days. Better to get one car noticed than a whole range ignored as is the case with many well funded exhibitors.

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good news. but interesting priority's here. have they already written off the evora400 before its press actual launch ? 

 

a dirty evora mule at GFoS (which i believe is now 'the' place to convert into sales as opposed to traditional car shows) and all eyes on a newer ultra low volume product all press reports on a SUV due 2019 and JMG doing a DB and promising more and more new products very soon.

 

they are either total geniuses or completely stupid. only time will tell..... 

First of, Evora has its own production line now while Elise Exige and 3 Eleven will share the same production line and I believe that allows the 45 cars are going to be easy to slotted on that production line. Evora production has already started... which leads to my

second point, production of the 3-Eleven will not start until February 2016. Finally, part of the 3-Eleven manufacturing will surely be made by the motorsport division so each car will have its own little bay in the motorsport building.

 

So lets not try to see a problem where there is none. JMG is promising products that are in development and which are only variants of existing models. DB did not do that.  Other than the SUV which is not entirely in JMG's hands he has total control over his plan. He also knows that if there's a lot of life left in Elise and Exige, they need to be refreshed in order to stay appealing when compared to Alfa 4C, Cayman and Boxster. therefore the 2017 Exige will have a dash layout with plenty of Evora DNA and a body using the same material used on the 3-Eleven. Elise will get a new body using that same material and a dash that will be pretty similar if not identical to Exige. 

 

Yes, 3-Eleven has a lot of new material but if you look at it for a second, you'll realize that the chassis is shared with the upcoming Exige and Elise, the rear substructure is shared with Evora 400 and upcoming Exige 400. The suspension layout is from the Evora 400. the body design and material is new and that material will be used on most new models.

 

JMG is using one page of DB's plan higher level of commonalities in the underpinnings. So expect all future products to share a lot more components from dashboard to looms and all the way to wishbones... So far he has delivered according to plan.

 

And if he presents a 4-Eleven in 2 years just expect a powerhike and an even more aggressive design based on the same chassis.

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...Elise and Exige, they need to be refreshed in order to stay appealing when compared to Alfa 4C, Cayman and Boxster. therefore the 2017 Exige will have a dash layout with plenty of Evora DNA and a body using the same material used on the 3-Eleven. Elise will get a new body using that same material and a dash that will be pretty similar if not identical to Exige. 

 

 

Is it something you've been informed to or read somewhere? Sounds great as a plan!

Edited by FredP

(ex) Elise S1 (VIN 357) LHD

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Is it something you've been informed to or read somewhere? Sounds great as a plan!

 

 

From autocar

 

 

New versions of the Elise and Exige are also in the works, said Gales. “The next Exige and Elise will be faster and lighter,” he said, a formula that will be true of all future Lotuses under Gales’s reign. Cars will also be more practical for everyday use.

 

It is not something I can back up with insider knowledge. However it is something JMG has very strongly hinted at from the things he has done and said so far. The cars will be more practical to use for customers... And they will also be more practical to manufacture... The easiest way to achieve that is greater commonality in parts and better/more rational assembly processes. JMG already said the cars will have better ergonomics, so it's pretty safe to say that the some levers and switches from the current Elige are going to make way for Evora components.  

 

He also said the car will be lighters, which if we exclude process means you go into material... The material used on the 3Eleven is 40% lighter than GRP and allows intricate and sophisticated design while being at least as strong as GRP. I do think that Lotus is going to progressively ditch GRP and adopt that new composite.  

 

Still Elise and Exige will still share a common chassis , the small platform and it is safe to say that there's only so much they can personalize therefore just as Cayman and Boxter share the same interior Elise and Exige will probably share theirs.

 

Please note that better processes should profit all cars... And the first proof is we've seen a prototype parts of an Evora "Sports 400" seat  essentially an Elige Probax seat on Evora rollers.   

Edited by NedaSay
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