auRouge Posted April 28, 2015 Report Share Posted April 28, 2015 Apologies if this has already been posted but OMG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM DaveC72 Posted April 29, 2015 Gold FFM Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Mixed emotions on this one. Part of me is horrified at the concept/ brand dilution/ potential for an almighty balls up. The more rational part of me is thinking that it's necessary to generate the cash and profits to keep the marque alive. Compete or complain. If Lotus don't do this and "stay pure", then they might not exist in the fullness of time. Clinging to ideals in the harsh light of financial reality is noble (sic) but a sure fire route to extinction... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 WWCD*? *What Would Colin Do? 1 Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arregueti Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 "If you are not winning you are not trying..." The reverse is also true. If you are not trying you are not winning. They need to be in the ballroom, IMHO. Fingers crossed for a nice outcome and result. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pits Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 The thought of it makes me feel physically ill but the target is the Chinese market - well on its way to becoming the world's largest SUV market. Should be an easy win for Lotus to meet their relatively modest targets. Building it in China makes sense which should also mean that Hethel can focus on proper Lotus cars. The other thing is the name Lotus should really connect with the Chinese, for whom the Lotus flower has great cultural significance. A successful SUV in China could potentially open the floodgates for the brand in Asia. The means can only be justified by the end (Lotus's survival) in this instance. However there is a very real danger that Lotus will only prosper by making cars that will not appeal to current owners. Survival at all costs might be a poisoned chalice for the hardcore faithful. It could also eventually provide the resources to fund a new range of ground-breaking and world-beating sportscars. Only time will tell. Bentley appear to have succeeded in finding a wider market for their current generation of cars. No doubt the traditional Bentley Turbo owner is appalled and grimaces every time he sees a premiership footballer getting into his 'VW'. The air-cooled Porsche brigade won't look at anything made in Stuttgart this century! Perhaps we are destined for a similar fate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Who cares about current customers? They hardly set the bank manager aglow with excitement - never have done. Their tastes are already catered for, so it's time to find customers willing to spend money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pits Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Well I do because I am one, along with most of the members here! I also happen to think the current cars are exceptionally good and deserve to sell in far greater numbers. When Lotus stop making cars like their current range then I'm done with buying new cars altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 But they aren't stopping making the current line up. They are simply in partnership with another company in another country to make a small handful of vehicles which should sell to the local population. In doing so it may enable the current line up of cars to continue be manufactured at Hethel, despite historic profits being non-existent. The type of cars Lotus have made for the past 60+ years haven't ever made significant profits and as such efforts should be made to seek out a different demographic of buyer. Surely it's time to try something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diego Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 can someone enlighten me as to why JMG is talking about a controversial partnership with a bus manufacturer to build an SUV due 2019 when no one has actually seen/heard anything since geneva about the evora400, a spots car due to market imminently ? what are they smoking over at hethel ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Cannon Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Not sure how Lotus ideals fit in with an SUV concept, I always thought their design philosophy sat better with a city/commuter car type, but is there any money to be made with them? Time will tell, more cash can only be good as long as the sportscars benefit. Quote In the garage no-one can hear you scream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbers Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Dad was told he was a nutter to do a Lotus Sunbeam.....I mean, a Talbot with a Lotus badge? He was also told that a Carlton was too big a car for Lotus, that it was too heavy, that a twin turbo was crazy and that the whole concept wouldn't work. Strange that they are 2 of the most sought after classic Lotus's! If it adds £'s to the kitty then it can be worth it. 2 Quote Possibly save your life. Check out this website.http://everyman-campaign.org/ Distributor for 'Every Male' grooming products. (Discounts for any TLF members hairier than I am!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
domguy Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 When Porsche introduced the Cayenne and Macan did their traditional 911, Cayman and Boxster customers run a mile? By introducing the SUV did the 911 all of a sudden loose it's appeal? I think not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisJ Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I would be be most interested in one when it comes here as none of the current range suits me and my family - hence why I now have an Excel. Funny how most of the posters moaning about this on PH do not have a Lotus in their list of current or previous cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM Barrykearley Posted April 29, 2015 Gold FFM Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Now if they were moving to just suv then would understand the moaning....... Didn't they do something on the old Isuzu trooper.......... They need some fancier tractors in Chelsea anyhow....... Quote Only here once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM DaveC72 Posted April 29, 2015 Gold FFM Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 I gave up on PH about 8 years ago, as I got sick of all the goose-stepping... just saying... Yes, they did a fettle of the Isuzu Trooper. Oppo of mine had one for his OH to tow her horse trailer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Quote They need some fancier tractors in Chelsea anyhow. Oooo - A lotus Tractor - now that's a thought. Lamborghini did it so why not Lotus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auRouge Posted April 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 It's controversial, let's hope it works. If it does great but where's all the investment coming from? If this is done on a silly budget and the quality isn't there (this sector will be VERY intolerant of niggles) then JL could find himself taking Lotus from bad to worse... Cross your fingers everyone, Lotus is starting a new chapter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramjet Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 Lotus need to do something different to attract a different market. If it's an SUV, as long as they get all the i's dotted and the t's crossed, so be it. I won't be buying it, but I'm not in the market for a new Lotus either. Quote All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit. Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others. For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted April 29, 2015 Report Share Posted April 29, 2015 On 30 April 2015 7:54:49 am, auRouge said: It's controversial, let's hope it works. If it does great but where's all the investment coming from? $1.6bn from DRB and Goldstar (50/50 over the next 15 years) so assume a lot of that will be from sales. http://www.just-auto.com/news/lotus-group-enters-into-new-joint-venture_id158049.aspx 1 Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedaSay Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 When they say $1.6B!!! As in "billion", i.e a thousand and six hundred million dollars US!!! Is it me or is this the first time Lotus will get that much cash to develop a car? The Evora was developed on a lot less than if I recall. Of course the amount will be spread over 15 years between now and 2030 but it's the first time Lotus has enjoyed that much financial visibility. That is if Goldstar Heavy industrial honour on their commitment of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pits Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Now imagine $1.6bn spent on a new front-mid engined Elan? MX5 sales could be seriously dented by that and Lotus could achieve volumes far greater than 5000 units surely? They could and probably should build it in Malaysia or China too. If the only way to secure Lotus's future is an SUV then so be it. But I'd much rather see them try and do it with a sports car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 When you're spending someone else's money you have to spend it how they wish it to be spent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramjet Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 And to be honest, the sports car arm only caters to a small amount of car buyers. SUV's are everywhere. And if they get it right, and they should............. Quote All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit. Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others. For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hosscartwri Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Initial reaction was "oh no - not a variation on the Danny Bahar theme of thinking too big and dipping a minnow's toe (!!??) into unfamiliar markets with all the dealer training etc. that ought to be conducted but probably wouldn't be etc. etc." BUT then common sense rather than emotion kicked in! Porsche's best selling vehicle is the Cayenne and it's principal market is Asia - I believe the USA is also quite an important market for this model. My recollection is that the Porsche purists were apoplectic when the Cayenne was announced and the end of the world was predicted. Porsche is still spending considerable sums refining and developing their sports car range which remain successful. I don't know this as a fact but I suspect that their profit margin is highest on the higher price SUV vehicles Presumably the Macan was developed at least in part, because the Cayenne had become so expensive that there were many potential customers who were being left behind as the Cayenne's pricing increased - I doubt Porsche would admit this and would argue that there was a market segment which they were not covering! I had a recent extended solo drive in a diesel Macan S and I have to say that I was surprised at how like a Porsche it felt despite the diesel engine and the weight - clearly it is a Porsche but you know what I mean! For its bulk it handles very impressively disguising its weight very well with remarkable cornering ability. Its capability over poor road surfaces was also a considerable improvement on a Land Rover Freelander which is what I am contemplating replacing. (Evo reckoned the Audi Q 4 is better on/over the limit - I have yet to drive one). So - provided the market is large enough (with the proposed vehicle being built in China, you would think it should be), if Lotus can work its magic on the physics of SUVs it could be very interesting. In terms of sports cars, I think that Lotus would be considerably more successful it it could maintain the chassis rigidity and handling feel of their cars whilst making it far easier to get in and out. As some of you will be aware, I recently switched from a latest model Cayman S to an Elise S on the basis of the purity of feel and superb roadholding of the Elise and can not see why anyone in the market for a proper sports car would not buy a Lotus except for the barrier (literally!) to getting in and out easily. Sort this hurdle out and produce an SUV deserving of the Lotus badge and success should be theirs for the taking. Quote Elise S sold February 2018. GT410 Sport on order Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comem47 Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 SUVs tend to be daily driver vehicles and not an occasional sports car toy one can do without for a while. Maybe the dealer network in the UK is sufficient, but in the US the Lotus dealers are few and far between . I know I have enough trouble with my daily driver Mitsubishi Outlander now and could only imagine how much worse it could be getting a Lotus SUV serviced. Customer expectations are higher. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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