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What I think I may have seen on the outside resembles the Link & Co 01/02 phev that is due for release in Europe soon. Would Lotus get involved in fine tuning this? Chassis, drivetrain maybe for a later variation even with a modified shell.

 

Chipp

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That thing has been testing in Europe quite extensively already but maybe some chassis tune for the UK market. however the Lynks are supposed to get PHEV and MHEV, the package is protected for full EV but I don't know if these cars have been tipped for this.  Besides Link & Co will soon activate their Cyan Racing connection to market the brand in Europe Cyan has the capability to tune the car, and lynk would be able to brand them so...

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Coincidentally when I was up at Hethel last year deciding on colour and spec for my new GT410, an SUV, that I didn't recognise at the time, drove past us into the building behind the main reception. I said to the Lotus guy I was with (I won't say his name), should I be seeing that? He just smiled and said, no you shouldn't! 

I obviously looked at images of all Geely group SUVs later and the car I saw looked identical to a Lynk & Co SUV on sale at that time, albeit not in the UK. I can only imagine it was a test mule for drivetrain etc and although the forthcoming Lotus version will hopefully have unique body panels, I wouldn't be surprised if it's based on a Lynk & Co floor pan.

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On 3 June 2019 at 19:35, Advantage said:

Daughter had a Nissan Juke as a courtesy car while her Audi A1 was being fiddled with a month or two back. She absolutely loved it and said of the experience: "Really enjoyed driving that, I felt like a queen!".  This was all down to the elevated driving position, good visibility and ease of use. Not once did she comment on the driving dynamics or the vehicle's prowess save to say that she felt it had a "bit of grunt".

Really? Bell & Colvill have a couple of Jokes as courtesy cars and, honestly, they are absolutely awful and bland cars. Apart from them being so downright ugly, I thoroughly hated them on the 2 occasions I've used them when my car has been in for work. They make a Trabant look exciting!

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I wish I had an idea of when the Lotus SUV will finally be on sale. 

Need one now and it looks like the Porker is the best of the bunch.

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Unless Lotus have an enormous surprise ready to spring upon us all, I'd imagine that you'll be waiting for a very long time for the Lotus SUV. They've been pretty clear in saying sports cars first and then other segments. Furthermore, they've said that they would need to be involved, right from the offset, in any design for the underpinnings of a new SUV, were they to use another from the group, in order to ensure it met Lotus's criteria. I think it was Popham who recently said they, ' won't take an  existing platform and just try to make a Lotus out of it'. 

 

What we 'might' see is SUVs within the group sprinkled with a little Lotus magic, allowing Geely, Volvo etc. to compete in segments where they have not been able to, before now. They could, for example, be developing/co-developing  electric drivetrains that might see use throughout the group. Given what's been said, I'd be surprised to see a genuine Lotus SUV before 2023-4. Porsche have already garnered a great deal of expertise in this particular arena so Lotus will need to have 'everything' right when they do launch. There's no doubt, however, that it/they will probably sell in numbers that Lotus have scarcely even imagined in the past.

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The current Volvo XC60, which probalby fits the Lotus SUV mould best was introduced in 2017. Considering a typical 6-year life cycle this means the next generation will be voming around 2023. 

Asuming Geely builds a platform strategy (as all makers have) then the Lotus SUV, which will most likely be based on this platform) won't be around much earlier. 


If you have the choice between a Stairway to Heaven and a Highway to Hell don't forget the Nomex®!

Captain,  Lotus Airways. We fly lower! 

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Why is an SUV now considered the only way to make money in the sports car business? Surely there are other possibilities? Lotus are known for being pioneers, for leading not following. What makes SUVs so irresistible to buyers and why would they want a Lotus one? Traditional notions of driving pleasure aren’t a consideration among SUV’s whereas the status of the badge and image is everything. Doesn’t exactly play to Lotus’s strengths or core competencies.

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It is the Porsche lesson in ‘How to save a sports car company’.

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We’ve been around this block before (several times). Look at the worldwide market/sales for 2 seater sports cars. Now look at the worldwide market/sales for SUVs. Then look at how a re-badged diesel VW SUV saved Porsche and allowed them to continue to produce cars like the GT3 & GT4. 

Draw your own conclusion. 

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My only problem with this Lotus SUV s the fact it will be made in China. I can see how Lotus-fans (who usually can afford it) will continue supporting the brand and start buying SUVs from Lotus. Not an Evora or Elise, but still Lotus and wife doesn't compain (too much) anymore ;) As much as I'm not the biggest fan of 'Tuned Beetles', I highly doubt the quality of this car will be anywhere near of Macan ( @Bazza 907 go for it, good choice :) ).

At the end, as long as they continue making amazing cars like Elise... I don't care about the SUV :D

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3 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

It is the Porsche lesson in ‘How to save a sports car company’.

You mean the lessons about lying and cheating on emissions tests and the like and how not to cry after being slapped with huge fines?  Or the one about making suspension turrets like fireworks so they pop through the bodywork?  :)


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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No, that’s the VW lesson. Porsche weren’t part of VW at the time that the Cayenne/Toerag saved them. 

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Nope, it was Porsche who recently got fined for its actions, not for the VW stuff...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/porsche-fined-diesel-emissions-cheating-scandal-stuttgart-a8902921.html


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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Yes. That’s because Porsche were part of VW when they committed the offence. 🤦‍♂️

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1 hour ago, Bravo73 said:

We’ve been around this block before (several times). Look at the worldwide market/sales for 2 seater sports cars. Now look at the worldwide market/sales for SUVs. Then look at how a re-badged diesel VW SUV saved Porsche and allowed them to continue to produce cars like the GT3 & GT4. 

Draw your own conclusion. 

As much as Scotty seems to like your posts you still haven’t answered the question as to why you think it would work for Lotus and why you don’t think there’s any other way. Maybe Scotty knows?

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While it’s somewhat reassuring that no one on this forum can explain the popularity of SUVs it does beg the question why some of the same Lotus stalwarts welcome the arrival of a Lotus SUV?

Best reason given so far appears to be ‘just cos’.

But I welcome some debate at least. The day the idea of a Lotus SUV isn’t stirring up some strong views on here is a very sad day indeed.

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May I try to answer.The question is why wouldn't it work for Lotus? Not why it would?

If you manage to sell 15k to 25k cars per annum just on sports car all the while preserving exclusivity you let me know how you do it.

Last I checked all the higher echelon of the sports car world have decided to cap in one way or over the production of their sport cars except for Porsche. Porsche can churn out Cayman Boxster and 911 thanks to the buttloads of mommy and daddy carriers that takes the brunt of the development cost for electrical, powertrain, parts bin development. 

There is a need for commonalities and economies of scale everywhere in the automotive world.... That's why everybody buying all Mclarens get pretty much the same interior, the same engine, the same fittings and the same carbon chassis tub, there maybe differences in the pretty dress and some suspension settings and one may have an hybrid element to the powertrain, but if you want your 540c to embarrass a 720s at a redlight you know it is possible with just a single ECU tweak, that is the way McLaren, which is bank rolled by a sovereign fund can do it. Ferrari gets a huge amount of money developing powertrains for Alfa Romeo and Maserati that pays for the development of their engines and parts bin. Aston needed the influx of Mercedes-Benz  to save on parts bin cost and powertrain if only temporarily for the powertrain it seems. Lamborghini's are ... very "Italian" Audis. I could keep going the list goes on... Except for McLaren, all other brand mentioned above are going the SUV route to generate volumes without taking away the exclusivity from the sports cars, which Porsche sort of failed to do, not that it is a bad thing I think to have mass appeal. And I think that Lotus is going to try the same recipy somewhere between exclusivity and mass appeal. 

The SUV can take comfortably 4/5 occupants which means mum or dad can lug the kids and do it in a style that suits them. Also they are easier to get in and out than a sport cars and as one gets older it may be slightly nicer for old bones. And when one as to store its pretty coupé away for winter the SUV is the perfect status runabout.

I mean numbers do not lie SUV sales are trampling sport car sales and are now higher than luxury car sales, that's why even Rolls Royce decided to produce the Cullinan, Which sells like hot cakes. the F, E and I pace are outselling everything else at Jaguar, the trend is also affecting the "Germans". the buyers today have been convinced by marketing people that an SUV was the vehicle to get.

Sometimes it is not about to find another way, sometime you just follow until you find a new road. That's what Lotus and others are doing. Can we please stop dissing them for doing that. And it is not about destroying the heritage of CABC he always did what could keep his company in business, if an SUV or 2 can keep Lotus going, just take it, if it keeps sports cars around that is reason enough to be ok with it.

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20 minutes ago, Brian Braddock said:

While it’s somewhat reassuring that no one on this forum can explain the popularity of SUVs it does beg the question why some of the same Lotus stalwarts welcome the arrival of a Lotus SUV?

Best reason given so far appears to be ‘just cos’.

But I welcome some debate at least. The day the idea of a Lotus SUV isn’t stirring up some strong views on here is a very sad day indeed.

I'll have a go as a long time lotus owner (32 years next week).

Not one of the current crop of cars from Lotus interests me. I already have a two seater with my Esprit and do not want another one - and I certainly don't want a track oriented car.

What about the Evora, I hear you ask, that's a four seater. Well when I wanted to buy another Lotus (2014/15) so that the family travel and go to events together, I tried an one, but my kids, then aged 9 and 6, couldn't fit in it at all.

What did I do?

I went out and bought a Lotus Excel - the last car that Lotus built that allowed a family to travel inside. Now that my kids are starting to outgrow (height wise) the Excel - we can still travel four up, but I'd guess that this will only be for another few months - I'd like to continue with a family lotus.

The SUV cannot arrive soon enough for me - and I've been saying this since it was first mentioned as a possibility.

 

 

 

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Also the lack of an instant reply to Brian’s question may have something to do with this thread being over 4 years and 17 pages old. Most people who were going to post up their opinion on here probably already have.

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4 hours ago, Brian Braddock said:

While it’s somewhat reassuring that no one on this forum can explain the popularity of SUVs...

Nope, we’ve already been there:

Higher driving position, feeling of safety for the occupants (due to being surrounded by lots of metal), practicality, status, ‘outdoorsy/rugged’ image (even though most will never leave tarmac).

Do you need any more?

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On 05/06/2019 at 23:01, scotty435 said:

Probably get criticised for saying this from the same old crew, but me for one I feel excited that a camo SUV as been spotted near the factory, still a firm believer that the company needs one to survive and its sad to say but the figures tells the truth, sports cars are a dying breed and if it’s as good as the I think it could be, I shouldn’t mind one parked on my drive.

For the benefit of Brian my last post, posted just over a week ago and one of many posted on the subject of SUVs and if I like someone’s post it means that I agree with what they have to say, sure there is no crime in that?

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No crime in liking SUVs either but think you might have been a bit trigger happy liking a post that ducked the question.

Most here seem to think a Lotus SUV is a necessary evil at best so not really cause for celebration. As for why copying Porsche might not work, let’s start with how Porsche and Lotus are very different companies in very different circumstances. Car mags like to create this idea of a rivalry but really there isn’t one. Porsche need to find homes for over 200k high end cars every year. They will stick a Porsche badge on anything in order to hit those numbers and have done. Lotus’s wildest dreams would be to hit 10k cars a year. You can do that profitably with sports cars alone as Ferrari and McLaren have shown. Mazda have sold huge numbers of light, two seater sports cars that could and should be wearing a Lotus badge on the nose.

The Porsche badge remains aspirational for most in a way the Lotus badge simply isn’t and a Lotus SUV will do nothing to change that. A successful hypercar and succession of brilliant desirable supercars just might. The badge is primarily what sells Cayennes and Macans. Porsche never stood for anything like ‘simplify and add lightness’ so an SUV is a strange change of direction not a contradiction of the principles that built the company and the brand. SUVs should have done irreparable harm to the Porsche brand and image but they got lucky and caught a wave no-one saw coming. They also worked out how to make wealthy people even richer with the GT cars which maintains a media buzz around their sportscars a feeding frenzy of demand by bringing in customers who only have a passing interest in cars. It’s a great distraction away from the fact that a once great dedicated sports car maker is now primarily an SUV re-badger with a sideline in sports cars.

In my direct experience with the motor industry, behind the scenes no-one has much of a clue about what’s going to work or not. Lots of experts with hindsight but Porsche had no idea the SUV gamble was going to work. Honda we’re convinced they had to drop performance cars and go full eco. Lotus had no clue the Elise would be such a hit or that the 7 would still be in production today. Nissan’s Qashqai was a complete roll of the dice. JLR thought the Range Rover coupe was going to be a sure fire hit. Same for Hondas new NSX. Porsche thought it was a good idea to ditch the flat 6 from Boxster and Cayman and manual box from the GT3, something they’ve since reversed. 

Its very hard to see how a Lotus SUV could be a huge hit, Porsche have a massive head start, vast economies of scale and a much more aspirational badge. Will anyone care if a Lotus SUV weighs 1600kg (light for an SUV)? What if it’s 2 tons? As always the Lotus will have to be much better and cheaper just to make any kind of dent. Seems like a very tall order to me. 

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It's considerably less of a tall order with the resources of the Geely group behind them. Popham's already stated any Lotus SUV will not just be a relabelled affair, saying that Lotus would need to be involved right from the first designs of the underlying platform, to ensure that Lotus objectives could be met. This would suggest that we are looking at something in 2023-2025, based on a platform being co-developed developed now, most likely Volvo. Volvo, of course, would also benefit from a platform better equipped for ride and handling.

 

Lotus now have access to a huge parts bin/shared R&D in order to ensure great design, ergonomics, ICE, luxury etc. are all at class standard. I think that they've already more than proved that the can do the engineering side of things so ride and handling dynamics will no doubt be damned good; I'd imagine that Lotus will already have certain Porsche models in mind as a benchmark. A modern design, but instantly recognisable as a Lotus, will undoubtedly appeal to the vast SUV market, given that Lotus should already be riding on the wave of some serious marketing hype by that stage, hopefully with a great deal of positive press concerning the Type 130, interim model and the all-new models, which will be coming out around the same time.

 

Let's not forget, also, that heading into the mid 2020's, the steamroller of electrification will be ever more relevant; the number of registrations of electric vehicles in the UK was 3,500 in 2013 and more than 224,000 as of May 2019. What will that figure be in 2025? Lotus appear to be heavily investing in this area, and a cracking electric drivetrain could well be its most essential selling point. Consequently, too,  I think that many people will care whether it weighs 1,600kg: that and its sporty aerodynamics (perhaps active, swapping between dynamic downforce and slippery air-streamed)  will make a huge difference to the range!

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