Lotus SUV...

[Spinney 709]

Can I just ask something please? You present this as a fact that any upcoming Lotus SUV will be based upon this platform. Do you have insider info or is it simply speculation based on what Lotus management may have said in the past?

I’m not criticising you in any way, but just curious as you often seem to present your views about forthcoming Lotus products as factual, so I assume you must have some inside info. Or is it mostly an educated guess?

As I said, please don’t take this as criticism in any way, but I’m just curious to know.

[NedaSay 835]

Recouping information is what I do for a living .

By the way I did not say the SUV would be based on this platform I did say that the SUV will be using this powertrain. The vehicle platform or chassis will be "bespoke" to Lotus.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by NedaSay

[Spinney 709]

Ah ok, thanks for your explanation. I took these few words.............." this is in essence the base of the upcoming Lotus SUV " as you meaning the entire Volvo platform would be the basis of a Lotus SUV, especially when you started off by saying ......."looks like the SUV skate is ready."  I understand you also said.........."who should borrow exactly the same powertrain architecture" but it wasn't clear to me this was the only part you meant would be carried over.

By the way, I travelled through/near your city only a few weeks ago whilst passing through from Banff to Kamloops. A beautiful area! 

[theelanman 511]

alfa seem to have something on the way.....

have lotus???

 

[Bee 85]

Is it pronounced 'toe nail-ey' or 'toe gnarly'? 

[paul lodey 13]

A bit unfortunate that it reads toe nail in English..

[The Pits 4,408]

https://youtu.be/DqakvnXRbSo

[DaveyT 244]

18 hours ago, paul lodey said:

A bit unfortunate that it reads toe nail in English..

Maybe just a theme following on from the VW Toerag?

[webfoot 25]

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/10/01/lotus-suv-volvo-platform-report/

erm..... It's alive.... maybe

[NedaSay 835]

It is alive they are just running it in the background, and a lot of work is being undertaken away from Hethel... Lotus has a full contingent of engineers working from the new Greater Shanghai R&D and engineering centers and the new Geely-Lotus in Wuhan must not be too far from completion...

Still I do think it is due for a 2022 release not a 2020. Also the specs in the article are vastly different from the ones initial hinted at by the previous management, then again the current leadership has played it pretty coy   ever since

Lotus will realistically share the platform with a number of Geely product on this one including this :

 

the Lynk & Co Zero is the group latest market ready concept and it share more than a little resemblance with the Lotus SUV patent drawings.

Edited October 1, 2020 by NedaSay

[Frickin_idiot 136]

9 hours ago, NedaSay said:

It is alive they are just running it in the background, and a lot of work is being undertaken away from Hethel... Lotus has a full contingent of engineers working from the new Greater Shanghai R&D and engineering centers and the new Geely-Lotus in Wuhan must not be too far from completion...

Still I do think it is due for a 2022 release not a 2020. Also the specs in the article are vastly different from the ones initial hinted at by the previous management, then again the current leadership has played it pretty coy   ever since

Lotus will realistically share the platform with a number of Geely product on this one including this :

 

the Lynk & Co Zero is the group latest market ready concept and it share more than a little resemblance with the Lotus SUV patent drawings.

Want!

[jep 853]

Not sure I will ever own a SUV but delighted if Lotus can find a product that the wider public want.

I rather like the lack of news from Lotus Cars Ltd. It certainly beats the bells, whistles and trumpets of Mr DB.

Justin

[21gg 401]

I personally think its a good thing and there is definitely a mrket for them. The L&Co Zero looks well and suspiciously like the Lotus offering as mentioned above.

I was just checking Porsches 2019 production figures the other day. I knew they made more 4x4 than sports cars but didnt realise just what proportion it was. 274k vehicles produced in 2019, 54k were sports cars (911, caymen, boxter), a few panamera (cant remember the numbers) but the rest were the cayenne and macan! So only a 5th of their production is sports cars that mental. No wounder theyve all jumped on the band wagon.

[NedaSay 835]

The Cayenne and Maccan have been carrying Porsche for years. And if the Cayenne was funded partially by VW at the beginning it now shares an undisclosed number of parts with hum :  the Maccan of course but also Touareg, Q7, Bentayga and Urus... The Cayenne is a cash cow, the entire VW group has been enjoying it for years.

In my mind if the SUV shares anything in the upcoming Volvo XC, Polestar 3 or 4, Lynk & Co Zero or Geely's own brand while still retaining visual Cues and the dynamic prowess. It is a win.As said, the factory should be nearing completion these days but despite China declaring itself in recovery mode from Covid 19, the work must have been halted for a little while as Wuhan was the first known hot spot of the pandemic. Still Geely group is one bullish group at the time being, they want to be seen as the driving force of China auto market  and compete with  the like of VW which strategy they are emulating quite closely but at a much faster pace. Since Geely purchased Volvo, their development has been unbelievably fast... They took their time in the first 6 years letting Volvo do its thing while they were learning their way but since then they have been on an almost constant blitzkrieg with new models being released at ridiculous pace. Look at their PR staff giving us a look at the Geely hub of the recently held Beijing Autoshow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Oxn6TZtDIE

Still I think the Autovisie piece is a bit off as I don't think Lotus really wants to take the spotlight away from Evija this year. But as soon as Evija is out the door being delivered to the lucky very few, I think they will start leaking stuff on the SUV. I still think it is going to be a 2022 product release, and will be the first of 3 Chinese manufactured and partially engineered for Lotus. The plan set forward by JMG evolved from one (Maccan class) to two SUVs ( Maccan and Cayenne classes) with a third model set to be a sporty luxury sedan (Panamera) that should now be also an EV so a Taycan competitor. With the announcement of Lotus LEVA upcoming platform Lotus has covered their basis for the sportcars and is recovering its status as an innovation leader but lets be honest, it is first and foremost a nice accolade and also nice of them to go after this funding as it proves the Geely group that they can go and get funding elsewhere even-though compared to the funding provided by the group it is almost symbolic. Still whould we have an upturn in the outlook Lotus will be set.

 

 

[NedaSay 835]

Ok I found the source article for the dutch piece: https://www.pcauto.com.cn/nation/2174/21749372.html And i used google translate (this thing has progressed by leaps and bounds when it comes to chinese to english translation this past few years, it's impressive) so the articles says that:
 

Quote

 

Recently, Lotus's first domestically-produced model information was exposed online. The new car will be named Lambda, and will be put into production at Geely's Wuhan plant in 2022

As Lotus's first SUV model and the first domestically produced model in China, Lotus Lambda has a body size of 4900/2017/1625mm, a wheelbase of 2999mm, and a curb weight of 2200kg. It provides 4-seater and 5-seater models with fuel and hybrid vehicles. There are three powertrains: dynamic and pure electric. The pure electric model has a comprehensive cruising range of 579km (which operating conditions are not disclosed), equipped with a front and rear dual-motor drive system, with a maximum power of 100kW for the front motor and 450kW for the rear motor. The maximum torque of the system reaches 710N·m. The new car will be equipped with a rear-wheel active steering system.

 

The piece displays what looks like a leaked spec sheet with the numbers above. They are very lardy to me a 2.2 tons Lotus... hybrid or not is excessively heavy for a Lotus, it's a 100kg less than the benchmark Cayenne but still.

I cross checked with Gasgoo China Automotive News which is the most reputable source of automotive info and they actually published a piece on that topic back in August.  http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china_news/70017456.html. They quote the same local government document as the other piece. So from that article, I get that the factory is up and running and they are indeed looking at a 150,000 cars per year output.The Lotus SUV would go into production in 2022 with a target output on 20,000 units per year. it would come both as a full EV and a MHEV OR PHEV using Geely Volvo tech the T8 spec seen on XC90 on steroids if we consider the specs:

Quote

The fuel-burning version is likely to carry Volvo's 2.0-liter engine. As for the BEV version, two electric motors can continuously drive both axles with a system output of 550kW and 710/1140 N·m and the NEDC-rated range reach up to 579km, according to the governmental file.

 

[Likuid 119]

IMO it sounds like they are just using the Lotus name for their performance SUV. Not saying Lotus isn't helping engineer it, but since its a shared platform their hands are kind of tied. You can't really use exotic materials and manufacturing techniques because those would be too expensive for the mass produced Geely and Volvo SUVs. It would have been interesting to see what Lotus could have done with a performance SUV if it didn't need to be shared. Would be interesting to see a different take on an SUV (as much as you can anyways).

[NedaSay 835]

In my opinion, i do think that the Chinese article contains some misinformation regarding the architecture of the future vehicles to be manufactured at the new Wuhan factory. This misinformation is pretty classic when one has to inform a government body of things to be done in one future factory or place of business. It is not a straight out lie but you tend to inform them based on available information at the time, that in turns needs to be updated 3/6/9 months later.

I do think that the architecture for the future EV of Geely group premium/luxury brands (Lynk & Co, Volvo, Polestar, Geometry) is not going to be SPA which is by Geely's own standard going on a bit but the newly unveiled SEA (Sustainable Experience Architecture), on which the new Lynk & Co Zero intent prototype is based.

 

SEA is EV baked as standard, but is direct evolution of SPA which would allow it to fit range extender (ICE) if needed. Essentially SEA is a skate that only has one hard point, the same hard point Volvo as used on SPA and CMA for the past 10 years, which is the front axle to firewall distance. That excluded anything can be fitted to the vehicles, double wishbones suspension front and rear, or multilink, or McPherson struts or  air suspension... It is all possible. SEA was designed as a skate that manufacturer could buy and put whatever they wish on top. As long as the ICE is able to fit in the compartment devoted to it, anything goes within reason. Reason pushes to believe that a 4 cyl inline is the most logical fit but a V6 at an angle would fit too if devoid of running anciliary belts... And since the SUV is to be hybrid that should be the case. 

Here's a rendering of Lynk & Co Zero

Zero is now in testing phase and should go into production next year according to Geely higher ups. The spec sheet for the thing are no less than slightly mind boggling  for a run of the mill passenger car, not quite so for an EV but who the heck needs 544ps and a battery that could reach 700km on one charge (in the most perfect condition in a lab) even if a straight lie if it was able to do 400km on a quick charger you are suddenly able to go from Paris to Marseille with one single regular lunch stop, provided the line at  the charging station is not 4/5 cars.

The thing is Zero (render above) and project Lambda(patent sketch shown below) do share quite a lot visually and Zero and Lambda may actually also share a factory as supposedly Zero would be made in Wuhan alongside Geely's other premium EV products.

So maybe just maybe project Lambda will be a proper Lotus and not just a badging exercise, maybe just maybe the suspension wizzards at Hethel have had the full reins to define what the car should feel like when driven. visually the renders of the Lotus SUV were very good, for some reasons i do think that Zero is pretty interestingly similar not only in design but mostly proportion. But maybe Lambda is going to be something vastly different.

 

[gregs24 148]

On 14/10/2020 at 19:56, Likuid said:

IMO it sounds like they are just using the Lotus name for their performance SUV. Not saying Lotus isn't helping engineer it, but since its a shared platform their hands are kind of tied. You can't really use exotic materials and manufacturing techniques because those would be too expensive for the mass produced Geely and Volvo SUVs. It would have been interesting to see what Lotus could have done with a performance SUV if it didn't need to be shared. Would be interesting to see a different take on an SUV (as much as you can anyways).

I suspect many said the same about Porsche with the Cayenne when it piggy backed on the Touareg  / Q7 platform - it didn't do them any harm.

As regards what Lotus could do on their own - absolutely nothing. They don't have a suitable platform of their own and couldn't afford to design one never mind make it.

 

[Barrykearley 6,861]

Just re-engineer some old 4x4 bighorn thing and whack an engineered by lotus badge on it..... oh

[Likuid 119]

11 hours ago, gregs24 said:

As regards what Lotus could do on their own - absolutely nothing. They don't have a suitable platform of their own and couldn't afford to design one never mind make it.

I merely meant that if Geely said "here's a blank check, make your own SUV." I know that is never going to happen, it was just more of a thought exercise. I mean not even Lamborghini was allowed to do that and they have much more cache than Lotus.

[Bazza 907 1,063]

Lamborghini did do one on their own. It was probably ahead of its time and not exactly a looker.

 

[jep 853]

Was the LM002 not a derivative of a military vehicle, originally with an American engine, that flopped? 

Paid for I think by Italian and US governments - then given to Lamborghini as a road vehicle as no-one wanted the military version. 

Has got the Countach engine though.

Justin 

 

[C8RKH 6,256]

9 minutes ago, jep said:

Paid for I think by Italian and US governments - then given to Lamborghini as a road vehicle as no-one wanted the military version

Was that because it only had 1 forward and 6 reverse gears and spent most it's time wondering what side of the road to be on?

[LotusLeftLotusRight 1,250]

That would have been the Lamborghini Cheetah with a rear mounted Chrysler V8. A bit like an overgrown beach buggy and equally useless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Cheetah

[NedaSay 835]

the electric part of the Lotus SUV underpinnings is official entering  public testing phase:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/new-lynkco-zero-electric-coupe-suv-beging-testing

That SUV, cause it is deemed to be an SUV looks very low to the ground to me... Zero is a skate that Geely Engineering teams to serve as a one stop shop for all brands of Geely group to use as they see fit, the Lynk & Co Zero seen above is therefore a demonstrator of this new "open source" architecture.