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swindon_alan

Air con condenser radiators

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Ok, more on the front ended V8 parts saga, this time on the air con side :P

 

My condenser rads were badly bent in the accident, which was a shame as they were only a couple of years old, replaced by the previous owner:

 

post-18669-0-52774000-1430953552.jpg

 

I was fortunate in getting a whole replacement rad assembly off of a Lotus development car (thanks FirstEdition!):

 

post-18669-0-21252000-1430953641.jpg

 

However, on examination the condensers had started to delaminate so I decided to go for new ones what with the pain of having to change them again after it had been rebuilt.

 

So what are they, where do they come from and what else are they used on?

 

As is my wont I decided to have a check back on all of the Esprit models to see what was common and whether it would help me in my search.

 

'76 to '80, very different as you would expect:

 

post-18669-0-37185700-1430953832.jpg

 

'80 to '87, different again:

 

post-18669-0-81164800-1430953888.jpg

 

'88 to '92, same rad as the earlier model for non-chargecoolers, presumably the different part number for the chargecooled version is an assembly (anybody know?):

 

post-18669-0-65222500-1430953978.jpg

 

'93 on, here we go, two rads, same as the V8, Lotus part number A082P6066F:

 

post-18669-0-82915500-1430954025.jpg

 

V8 is the same:

 

post-18669-0-31900000-1430954083.jpg

 

Start searching then, for '93 or later! The first port of call is a well respected Lotus spares dealer, who list the rads as suitable for "1995 onwards, two per car" at £115 each. Well with the VAT and delivery that works out at around £288 which seemed an awful lot to me?

 

Hmmm. Do any general air con suppliers list anything? I found a company in Gloucester called Auto Air http://www.autoairglos.net  who do list them, as you would also expect, for the 2.2 Turbo from 1995 on:

 

post-18669-0-62056000-1430954438.jpg

 

Not cheap either at £150 each all in, so that's around £300 still. There's a bit of a clue though on the detailed listing, a manufacturer's name and part number:

 

post-18669-0-63092100-1430954529.jpg

 

Diavia Systems 52465361. This might help... The nearly new rad from my broken car had a label and a part number, "Frigair 848.0001". As usual Google is your friend and I found them, an Italian manufacturer at http://www.frigair.com/en/catalog-online/product-detail?q=848.0001:

 

post-18669-0-24886100-1430954661.jpg

 

So now I know the spec:

 

Core size: 414mm x 248mm x 18mm
Inlet size: 3/4" UNF
Outlet size: 5/8" UNF

 

I can only seem to find distributors of the Frigair product in Italy, Germany and Spain and it looks nearly as expensive as the UK prices. Forward and on.

 

Trawling around I find a parts cross reference site that gives me all I need, it correctly includes the DIAVIA part number found earlier for confirmation:

 

Cross Interchange Part No. for: FRIGAIR 8480001

Factory     Number     
KüHLER SCHNEIDER    5561901    
AURADIA            KDUV005
KüHLER SCHNEIDER    52465361
AKS DASIS        546190N
AKS DASIS         UV5005
AVA COOLING SYSTEMS    UV5005
VAN WEZEL        UV005005
DELPHI             52465361
DIAVIA SYSTEMS         52465361

 

Googling UV5005 hits the jackpot, I find a site in Germany that has an online shop for the German made AVA product http://www.autoteiledirekt.de/ava-cooling-systems-2519400.html:

 

post-18669-0-39897000-1430955043.jpg

 

€60.95 each inc VAT plus €12 shipping, total was just over £100! Woo! Then I hit a stumbling block with this site. Trying to buy the damn things, it insists that I pick a car model to confirm suitability. Unfortunately there isn't a car to pick in the listing, it's a blank. Now that figures as on earlier searches this type of rad comes up as a "Harrison Universal" which I can't pin down against any particular make or model of vehicle, apart from Esprits using them. They seem to be a ubiquitous general type.

 

Look again and it gets even better, another German online shop with a sale on http://autoersatzteile-onlineshop.com/product_info.php/uv5005-p-5256:

 

post-18669-0-14454400-1430955321.jpg

 

Check before buying and the dimensions are correct:

 

post-18669-0-22703200-1430955411.jpg

 

Order placed. €42.80 each, total was £88 the pair including VAT and shipping! That's saved me around two hundred quid.

 

COOL!

 

*** '93 on condensers - look in Germany ***

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Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Although it's probably too late now, you would have been better off to replace the two smaller condensers with one larger one. Two units hooked together in parallel is not the most efficient way to go. A single multi-pass parallel flow condenser even if slightly smaller than the two combined would provide much better cooling.

 

Even with the two units, if you could plumb them together in a series instead of parallel, it would be an improvement.

 

Good luck with your project! 

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You're not really Sherlock Holmes are you, Alan?

 

Bugger, that's my cover blown :detective:

 

Although it's probably too late now, you would have been better off to replace the two smaller condensers with one larger one. Two units hooked together in parallel is not the most efficient way to go. A single multi-pass parallel flow condenser even if slightly smaller than the two combined would provide much better cooling.

 

Even with the two units, if you could plumb them together in a series instead of parallel, it would be an improvement.

 

Good luck with your project! 

 

Hello Jim. I take your point about increasing the efficiency by doing better things...

 

However, air con is not really a crucial requirement in rainy, wet, usually chilly southern England - compared to Florida that is :wallbash:

 

Apart from that, I want to try and keep it reasonably standard. Thanks for the advice though, I am sure that it will be useful for our fellow Esprit owners in the South of France or Spain!

 

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Great work again Alan. :)

I think TLF need to designate/employ you as the official parts reference type archivist chap and work your way through the whole model range :) :)

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Great work again Alan. :)

I think TLF need to designate/employ you as the official parts reference type archivist chap and work your way through the whole model range :) :)

 

Thanks Steve! I actually enjoy doing this kind of stuff, it is interesting and oddly satisfying...

 

I would be happy to investigate parts and sourcing in my spare twilight hours, for whichever Lotus if it helps the community and keeps the cars on the road. I only really need photos and hopefully some sort of manufacturer's reference from the items to kick things off.

 

The only point I would make is that there are "Misc and cross reference" sections that are split across the major components for each Esprit model, for example. It would help to have a top level section at the "Esprit Chat" level that provides an index and links to the respective subsections as I try to make it cover the whole model range. Bibs - is this worth looking at? I can spend the time trawling the forums for the relevant threads and put it together. Assistance would be welcome of course as there are years worth of posts!

 

Ok, off to put another thread together for Esprit heater blower motors... :smoke:

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Here's hoping bibs homes in on this thread :)

The abs sensors have now become obsolete, I've had 2 fail on my car so I'm guessing the others won't be far behind! When I get 5 mins I'll get the manufacturers name & part no of them

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Well done Alan - your hard work is going to save folks on here big bucks.....

Keep up the detective work and pass on my get well message to that car of yours

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I'm a bit busy with this weekends event but will sort out what you need next week. Great work btw :)

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The abs sensors have now become obsolete, I've had 2 fail on my car so I'm guessing the others won't be far behind! When I get 5 mins I'll get the manufacturers name & part no of them

 

It's ok Steve, I have found them, they are Delco items:

 

Sensor, wheel speed, front RH Delco 10456052, 1 off

Sensor, wheel speed, front LH Delco 10456053, 1 off

Sensor, wheel speed, rear Delco 10456051 or 10456099 or 10456151, 2 off

 

I will start another thread on it and start digging for you...

 

:w00t:

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It's ok Steve, I have found them, they are Delco items:

 

Sensor, wheel speed, front RH Delco 10456052, 1 off

Sensor, wheel speed, front LH Delco 10456053, 1 off

Sensor, wheel speed, rear Delco 10456051 or 10456099 or 10456151, 2 off

 

I will start another thread on it and start digging for you...

 

:w00t:

 

Started digging. A lot!

 

Definitely obsolete and not used on any other vehicles as far as I can tell.

 

I have a cunning plan though...

 

More to follow

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It's ok Steve, I have found them, they are Delco items:

 

Sensor, wheel speed, front RH Delco 10456052, 1 off

Sensor, wheel speed, front LH Delco 10456053, 1 off

Sensor, wheel speed, rear Delco 10456051 or 10456099 or 10456151, 2 off

 

I will start another thread on it and start digging for you...

 

:w00t:

Thanks Alan.

I've not had time to check yet but I didn't think they were made by delco.

I guess it's a case of finding a sensor with the correct dimensions & correct resistance.. simples !! :)

Best of luck, Steve

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Thanks Alan.

I've not had time to check yet but I didn't think they were made by delco.

I guess it's a case of finding a sensor with the correct dimensions & correct resistance.. simples !! :)

Best of luck, Steve

 

Ah, that's interesting Steve.

 

If you have a minute could you have a look and see if they have any identifying marks at all? If they were alternatively sourced that will give me another lead.

 

Did you keep your duff ones? If so, would it be possible to measure them up for me or lend them? The cunning plan...

 

I don't really want to disturb the (working) ones in my car as these sort of things tend to break when you mess around with them.

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Hi Alan, I'll try and look over the weekend.

I had to drill out the old sensors on both occasions. The last one I replaced was around last September, so I should be able to remove it without issue

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Hi Alan. i managed to remove both front & rear sensors  :turned:

 

The last sensor i purchased from deroure direct through lotus factory. I needed an n/s/f sensor which they didn't have so they sent the o/s/f which will work using different mounting hole#

post-11335-0-95652400-1431811285.jpg

the blue circle was the original mounting hole

 

pics of front sensor

 

post-11335-0-89570300-1431811418.jpg

post-11335-0-39105500-1431811480.jpg

post-11335-0-15437100-1431811516.jpg

post-11335-0-32804000-1431811554.jpg

post-11335-0-23605000-1431811592.jpg

post-11335-0-91084100-1431811626.jpg

post-11335-0-19168800-1431811679.jpg

 

REAR SENSOR

post-11335-0-84048100-1431811760.jpg

post-11335-0-01049100-1431811837.jpg

post-11335-0-63996900-1431811878.jpg

post-11335-0-14926100-1431811912.jpg

post-11335-0-75331300-1431811949.jpg

post-11335-0-05370400-1431811982.jpg

 

So unless i'm mistaken, we only need two sensors one type for front & the other for rear.  Hope all this is of help

 

regards steve

 

 

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Brilliant stuff Steve! Thanks very much, that's great work.

 

I will have a further dig in the next few days and invoke my cunning plan...

 

:thumbsup:


I'm a bit busy with this weekends event but will sort out what you need next week. Great work btw :)

 

Hello Bibs

 

If you see this could we sort out the top level cross reference thing? Hopefully it has quietened down a bit for you now after Brooklands

 

:smoke:

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Hi Alan. i managed to remove both front & rear sensors  :turned:

 

The last sensor i purchased from deroure direct through lotus factory. I needed an n/s/f sensor which they didn't have so they sent the o/s/f which will work using different mounting hole

 

PS I've had a quick look. Your sensors are marked INTELLEK, this is actually a Delphi (formerly Delco) trademark, range name:

 

http://www.efunda.com/eds/company_details.cfm/id2/2143/pv/NO/cp/Delphi%20Automotive%20Systems%20INTELLEK%26%23174%3B/

 

This figures as the part number on your rear sensors, 10456151, is listed in the Lotus parts manual as an alternative.

 

I'm guessing that these are the last run of them before Delphi discontinued them completely.

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I should be thanking you Alan ! Great work so far, you're like a bloodhound :)

 

P.s. how is your car progressing?

 

Thanks Steve

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Ooh I can nearly hear a v8!!!!!

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Can I just say that the air con condenser in your first photo looks like something produced by Salvador Dali?

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Can I just say that the air con condenser in your first photo looks like something produced by Salvador Dali?

 

Ha ha, that's ace!

 

Perhaps I should mount them on something and sell them to the Museum of Modern Art in New York?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Persistence_of_Memory

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Although it's probably too late now, you would have been better off to replace the two smaller condensers with one larger one. Two units hooked together in parallel is not the most efficient way to go. A single multi-pass parallel flow condenser even if slightly smaller than the two combined would provide much better cooling.

 

Even with the two units, if you could plumb them together in a series instead of parallel, it would be an improvement.

 

Good luck with your project!

I'm in the market for Aircon radiator/s for my v8, as one has a hole in it.

Couple of questions to those who know:

Should I buy a pair even if only one is holed?

If I should buy one bigger one, what one should I buy?

I know *nothing* about Aircon rads/unions etc, so while I want the coolest car I can get-which seems to mean I need to buy one big condenser, I have no idea which one I should get!

Third question-if one big one would have been better, why did Lotus choose to fit 2? Will one larger one

Physically fit? Is there a reason for two, like a barrier in the fitting, or is it because the Esprit uses two fans, and one would work for each condenser.

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I have fitted one new parallel-flow condenser to mine. 

 

It was from http://www.coolaircon.co.uk/and was a 575 x 247mm unit.

 

My theory was that one smaller parallel-flow would work as well as the large serpentine unit. But this could be totally wrong because looking at the earlier picture, these are also parallel-flow units and they look identical to the one I have fitted. So Lotus used two of these on later cars! 

 

Which is strange. I am not sure if two are needed. "Normal" cars dont use two this size. I will find out when I fill up the system but this wont be yet because the car is going for respray.

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Interesting!

The cabin is pretty small, but maybe the airflow isn't as good.

How much did you pay? The prices have gone up since Alan bought his from Germany.

S

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