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The Greeks have defaulted


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first step on the way back to the drachma

Not long now and Greece will be the tourist destination of choice.

It's gonna be much cheaper and a superb destination. I applaud them - get out and get on with it.

The folks on the street are like the employees of a failed company. It's the management that have largely let them down....but yes they've had it too good also. Now however it's correction time. They need to get back onto their feet and allow the country to get back to work.

It's the start of the end for the euro. You can't have equal prices, living standards, the same currency etc across a huge swathe of countries with huge differences. The experiment needs to end!!! We all know when the euro came everything got more expensive in all the euro countries. In Greece though the average vw car was suddenly hugely more affordable - that's indicative of the exact problem with the concept of currency union.

Onwards and upwards to the Greeks

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Bet they wished they'd taken out PPI after all!

first step on the way back to the drachma Not long now and Greece will be the tourist destination of choice. It's gonna be much cheaper and a superb destination. I applaud them - get out and get on

If the population had paid their taxes and not borrowed loads of money and not paid it back again, things might be different. All this talk about overlooking their debt......nobody ever overlooked min

If the population had paid their taxes and not borrowed loads of money and not paid it back again, things might be different. All this talk about overlooking their debt......nobody ever overlooked mine; I have paid off every penny I ever borrowed...and so should they. I'd be prepared to allow a much extended time scale for repayment...many decades, if necessary....like the funds that the UK government borrowed to finance the First World War. This has only just been finally repaid. If we can do it; so should they.

 

The very idea of a "one size fits all" currency and fiscal planning was always going to fail...the needs of the Greek economy are so totally different from those of the Germans.

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first step on the way back to the drachma

Not long now and Greece will be the tourist destination of choice.

It's gonna be much cheaper and a superb destination. I applaud them - get out and get on with it.

The folks on the street are like the employees of a failed company. It's the management that have largely let them down....but yes they've had it too good also. Now however it's correction time. They need to get back onto their feet and allow the country to get back to work.

It's the start of the end for the euro. You can't have equal prices, living standards, the same currency etc across a huge swathe of countries with huge differences. The experiment needs to end!!! We all know when the euro came everything got more expensive in all the euro countries. In Greece though the average vw car was suddenly hugely more affordable - that's indicative of the exact problem with the concept of currency union.

Onwards and upwards to the Greeks

 

 

agree ... and a pox in merkel and that wimp hollands houses too. 

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I think they are currently just in arrears, not yet a default but I'm not sure of how or why it is different.

 

A friend of ours has just had their Tunisia holiday cancelled by Thompson. Guess where they have been recommended to go?

Yup -book now folks!

 

We are off the Crete in a few weeks. Euro will still be main currency no matter what but I am concerned about the prospect of carrying thousands of Euros about. Particularly since everyone will know it!

 

Tourism is what they need though - penalising the tourists by raising VAT on restaurants and hotels may be a retrograde move.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33345219

 

I hope the above link works. Anyway copy and paste if not. Halfway down it has a graph showing the amount owed by Greece to each individual country or organisation. Interestingly it will only be the UK and US banks that could potentially get hit in those countries.

 

It couldn't happen to a more deserving bunch of crooks...

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The overwhelming "No " vote was the right result and a great encouragement to others in Europe.

 

- I can well understand the Greeks fed up with being told to suffer by others (with no tangible beneficial result) and they are mature enough to realise that if they do have to suffer it`s at least going to be through their own choice . Principle  counted for more than a full wallet, a rare occurrence these days.

 

As Prime Minister Tsipras said,  "they have failed to blackmail Democracy".

 

Not only that but the Greeks are now shown to be acting reasonably in the teeth of bullying- they held this "do or die" vote on this vital  issue when none of their predecessors  would have dared. And Mr. Varoufakis (who seems to have caused hostility by not wearing a tie and turning up on a motorbike instead of the usual limo-and daring to contradict the Eurobankers ) has resigned  to aid negotiations.

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About time someone stood up to the EU (aka German and French eurocrats). Hopefully now others will follow and make them realise they can't just push countries around who don't do "what they are told".

 

David Cameron could learn a lesson! "I will renegotiate our terms", EU "Nope, we can't discuss it for at least 2 years" Cameron "Oh, ok then!". Pffft!

Possibly save your life. Check out this website.
http://everyman-campaign.org/

 

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The revolution is on its way.

The stitches are starting to come apart at the seams

Not going to be long before its back to the good old common market!!!

I'm feeling so sorry for all the guys on the euro gravy train - next stop outsville

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in layman's terms: Greece has borrowed a load of money that they've decided not to pay back under the terms of the loan.

 

The IMF/ECB/EU have tried to send round a Transit full of Heavies (Finance Ministers) to grab a few billion flat screen TVs in lieu of payment, but the Greeks have kept their front door firmly on the chain are just goading them from behind the lace curtains.

 

If the Troika are hoping to get anything like their money back, surely the Greeks hold all the cards? Otherwise, they can just declare themselves bankrupt on Friday and start up a whole new country on Monday, called "Grease" or something?

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Ummmm yep........

A wise man once told me - if you owes the bank a few thousand - you've got a problem. If you owes the bank millions - the banks got the problem.......

In real terms they can't keep crippling Greece. But on the other hand Greece shouldn't have borrowed the money. However the IMF and ECB and Germans were stuffing money into the pockets of the Greeks. In all fairness - they are all as bad as each other.

Now the most interesting issue is how they control the whole thing breaking at the seams. At some point Greece will start printing their own money and be out of the euro - but they won't want to be out of Europe........

It really is history in the making......

Ps - go on Dave Cameron - now sock it to em.......

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So we are all applauding the Greek's for behaving dishonestly and with no honour or grace and just sticking up two fingers to whomever has bankrolled them, at THEIR request, over the past 20 years or so. Did they really  need those new airports, that infrastructure and the other subsidies AND the huge loans? 

 

Wow - it's not a way to run a household yet alone a country. I know, let's look inside the UK and use the same logic:

 

1. You want to work in the public sector and retire early at 50 - 55 on a bumped up and rocking pension - well go ahead (hmmm, after all, we've sanctioned this ourselves since the 70's for our own PS workers often enough). Don't worry, the people who continue to pay taxes will happily fund it and laugh of the fall-off in council services due to austerity funding as we need to switch from front line spending to pension spending.

 

2. You don't want to pay tax as you run a small business, a restaurant, and the service bills on your 2 Porsche Cayenne's and other Range Rover's are killing you - yeah go ahead, no issue, we'll just tax the people who work and ACTUALLY PAY their taxes more to cover it

 

3. You wanna have a great lifestyle and have all the good things in life, that's why you've run up so much debt. Well, no worry, we'll just write it off and get everyone else to pay for it or to take a shave on what they borrowed you. Oh, it's a new Monday morning and you want those same people to now give you a new loan to start the process all over again?  Hell yeah, no problem, here you go and don't even bother with a contract as we know you'll just disregard it anyway - think of it as a gift.... Take what you want....

 

4. Oh you live on an island and you don't want to pay VAT because for some reason it is not fair - of course, no problem. The people on the mainland who actually pay taxes will cover it for you.

 

We should let their banks fail and they should exit from the Eurozone as a consequence of poor financial management. If we don't, do we go back to Ireland, Italy and Spain and renegotiate their bailout terms and hand them back billions of Euro's that they were made to pay back?

 

No this is not about a victory for democracy. This is about the Greek's not wanting to be held accountable for their actions and the actions of the politicians that THEY voted in place.

 

But then, what the hell do I know.  A real lesson needs to be made here and if it is, that'll also possibly kill off any thoughts of Scottish Independence in the next generation as the SNP will realise quite clearly that you cannae just walk away from your debts...

 

Off for a drive to lower the blood pressure.......  

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-to-call-time-on-cushy-pension-deals-for-unhealthy-jobs-1978789.html

 

Greek hairdressers, trombonists and bakers can retire on a decent state pension at 50 since they work in 'demanding' jobs. They probably live to 120 too! 

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Does anyone remember "Swissair"? They were massively in debt and went into liquidation on 31 March 2002. The very next day they renamed their short-haul subsidiary Crossair as "Swiss" and carried on pretty much as if nothing had happened!

 

It's not just dodgy second-hand car dealers who get away with it!

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Andy - you might be misunderstanding me - I'm applauding the start of the end of the huge mistake called the euro and the great German project of the United States of Europe.

Of course they should not be able to just walk away from their debts - but I expect they will. Any big companies in the same position sure do. The Germans have been bank rolling Greece for far longer that they should have been - the plug should have been pulled about 4 years ago and they exit to the drachma. But oh no - they sure didn't want it then - so sticky plasters - and the real people of Greece suffer. It's not the pensions that bug me - they are wrong yes - but the young folks over there whom are looking into the abyss with no future prospects......

Let's hope it all unravels quickly and cleanly. Greece print some of their own money and someone with a real business brain runs the country. And they will have to have a positive balance sheet - end of.

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first step on the way back to the drachma

Not long now and Greece will be the tourist destination of choice.

It's gonna be much cheaper and a superb destination. I applaud them - get out and get on with it.

The folks on the street are like the employees of a failed company. It's the management that have largely let them down....but yes they've had it too good also. Now however it's correction time. They need to get back onto their feet and allow the country to get back to work.

It's the start of the end for the euro. You can't have equal prices, living standards, the same currency etc across a huge swathe of countries with huge differences. The experiment needs to end!!! We all know when the euro came everything got more expensive in all the euro countries. In Greece though the average vw car was suddenly hugely more affordable - that's indicative of the exact problem with the concept of currency union.

Onwards and upwards to the Greeks

 

Completely agree Barry. Greece should have bitten the bullet 5 years ago, got out of the Euro and refused the bailouts, they would have saved an enormous amount of pain. 25% unemployment now and a lot of hardship.

 

By returning to the Drachma it will be at around 33% of the value of the Euro which as you say will make holidays peanuts. Along with large inward property investment (I would buy a house there if they were a third of the price they are now!) that's a lot of foreign currency earnings potential. Add on the fact that Greece doesn't actually have much to export apart from olives and yogurt, their main problem would be the cost of imported goods but hey ho. It would also help their big earner, shipping if it was cheaper.

 

Yes, Greece has a lot of problems with their silly retirement ages, pensions, corruption and so on, but then that is prevalent among most of the European Mediterranean countries.

 

I'm off to Crete in October for a week, can't wait :smoke:

 

Oh an I have said since day one exactly what you did, how can you have a currency union that works for an industrial powerhouse like Germany and a banana republic like Greece? The Euro was always a crappy unrealistic, unworkable idea, but then the Soviet EU always has been too...

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I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Does anyone remember "Swissair"? They were massively in debt and went into liquidation on 31 March 2002. The very next day they renamed their short-haul subsidiary Crossair as "Swiss" and carried on pretty much as if nothing had happened!

 

It's not just dodgy second-hand car dealers who get away with it!

 

Yes, Donald Trump is the master at this. A number of business bankruptcies and the common man US taxpayer picks up the tab so he can continue to live in his elite lifestyle. BTW: In all his talk about "buy American/US Jobs" do you know where his "Trumpwear is made? MEXICO !!!! (I kid you not).

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Hi Barry - my comments were more general in terms of general responses from people in general around the press and TV today.

 

Looks like the Spanish have seen what Greece has done and are thinking along the same lines.

 

Yes, the Euro was a great and expensive experiment that went horribly wrong and I'm glad that  Mr. Cameron has decided to let us all have a say in whether we want to remain a part of the Federal state experiment that will never be happy till everyone is in the Eurozone.

 

You better to get in quick to buy your house over there Alan as I reckon by Friday Putin will have done a deal to buy the whole country and annexe it from Europe. They could be out of the Euro by Sunday....    :vava:

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Oh where's Gordon Brown and Tony Blair when you need some full on economic stability.............

And I'm still in pain from laughing about the Putin comment.......

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Since when has asking a debt to be paid back blackmail

All those people thinking they are going to get a cheap holiday would do well to remember the early days of holidays in Bulgaria,very little to buy,petrol rationing,electric cuts,poor food in hotels,poor infrastructure etc.

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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No Pete, Greece will be different cos as well as lending them shit loads of money the EU also paid for new roads, airports, power stations and stuff. It's like heaven man.

 

Think of that top gear episode where they found a whole town in Spain, with an airport all decked out with swivelly chairs and computers and the like. They didn't even bother locking the doors cos it was deserted....  Bit like Labour over here when they went all they left was a note saying sorry, no cash left....  :harhar:

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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So they have the infrastructure but will still need something to power it all up and who will want their commodity paid for with drachmas.Perhaps we could send them MrBrown to be their new chancellor

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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We could send them a few of the lib dem lads as well..........

It's going to be a turbulent time - but it's better they do it and get on with it. They will bounce back - but the trombonists and hairdressers will need to go back to work!!!

I'm sure if they are struggling - Putin will be watching - and would not be surprised if he diverts some gas from Ukraine to Greece !!! That'd wind up old merkel

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No Pete, Greece will be different cos as well as lending them shit loads of money the EU also paid for new roads, airports, power stations and stuff. It's like heaven man.

 

That was also a by product of hosting the Olympics.

 

Not that any Olympics EVER have recouped the infrastructure expenditure. It's another one of those massive lies that it's good for the economy, will attract further investment blah blah wank wank...

Perhaps we could send them MrBrown to be their new chancellor

 

That will guarantee to **** their pensions up then :stuart:

I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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