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VW faking emissions tests in USA?


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i for one will never ever buy a VW again.... End of.... Nor any of their stable mates. Nor anything remotely connected to German cars. They can stuff the lot.

Come on Barry, get a Corrado VR6 as a spare toy. It will make Jacques delirious...

:zorro:

I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Ha ha! good one.

Now, it seems likely that the German government knew in advance of the cheats and lies by vw...

Rotten as hell.

Just wait and see about BMW and...?

German precision and quality is legendary. Yes, a legend. Seems not be applicable of todays germany.

I want the european countries out of the german controlled ec.

Now.

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Come on Barry, get a Corrado VR6 as a spare toy. It will make Jacques delirious...

:zorro:

nope Alan - not happening - they can shove their cars straight up their ...:popo:

ive had several VW, an Audi, and bmw - always liked them - never again - I feel like I've been morally raped by these con artists :angry: 

I'm watching with interest what will be the outcome.

Only here once

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Hmmm... I think the more one looks into how business is done, the more corpses appears. All over the World.

Think of the enron scandal in the usa.

What happens? Danish government decides to sell 20 % of the Danish DONG (big heat supplier) to goldman Sachs, one of the biggest speculators and contributors to the Financial crisis in recent years.

There is maybe no end to the stupidity of mankind, as in business ceo's, politicians, bankers and so on.

Yes, I too await the extent and outcome of this vw scandal. Therefore I have chosen to hold back a bit my personal letter to vw in Volfsburg and the Danish vw importer, untill more is made clear.

Barry et al, we can vote with our Money.

edit: Alan, I actually like the G60 better, as the v6 is too nose-heavy ;)

Cheers,

Jacques.

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Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Something has to be done to penalize the BAD CEOs of the world for bad performance. I see it over and over again . They do good they get a HUGE bonus, they do bad, even bankrupt the company, and they still get a huge golden parachute before investors get any money on what's left. What's wrong with this picture???  The company always talked to us "Indians" that we get"paid for performance" (in reality there was little bonus on the up side and sometimes the company wasn't doing good when you really performed well so there wasn't much money at all in the employee bonus pool...(funny how that happens) and you get sacked on the down side. Seems the "Chiefs" always win. They also should get dinged for bad performance and even jail time.

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This really is outrageous and Governments, regulators and shareholders need to speak up. Something like this is akin to gross misconduct and so the average manager sacked for this would be let go with no "golden" handshake.

This is hardly re-enforcing the right behaviours to drive corporate change - "go on lads, do what you can to manipulate the market and customers, destroy competitors etc as we pay you millions a year to do it. Don't worry about getting caught though as we'll see you OK and you'll never have to work again anyway".

It really is quite sickening to see how the Execs get off freely with this sort of behaviour - think Fred Goodwin et al in Banking.  I only hope that the EPA / US Federal Government go for the jugular and the guy ends up in an orange jump suit in a prison in Louisiana where his millions can only buy him some fags and a TV in his cell. The actions of people in VW have cost people their jobs. They have lost people huge chunks of their pensions, etc. Where is the real justice in all of this and why do we let CEO's take all the glory and perks and cash but non of the accountability and responsibility. Our modern society really does stink.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I will be interested to see what happens next. If they do not meet mandatory standards then I would assume a remap would be forced upon anyone using the franchised dealers resulting in worse performance. But as this has been going on for so long a lot of these vehicles will not go anywhere near a vw garage. Will taxation classes change too? 

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Note to self.................remember to buy vw shares just before this becomes next weeks chips wrapping paper. 

I would also more than  happily buy vw and skoda again.  Far better than the POS ford mondeos and escorts and misc vauxhalls I drove in the past.   Yes that may make me morally bankrupt but  the everyday cars I have are to get me A to B at least cost in the most reliable way I can manage, nothing more.  I don't buy them to make a statement about myself ( ones a skoda FFS) just to do a job.  They are white goods nothing else.   This is big business, like banking and government and  I expect to be screwed by them, Its the nature of the beast!!!!!   The only thing that would give me the hump is if the government changes the £30 a year road  tax I pay on the fabia.

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Here in Denmark, the average roadtax is around 600 gbp. for a passat diesel. Depends on engine, weight, emmissions etc.

A Fabia may be around 400 gbp. A vw Up may be around 50 gbp as it's in a special Group.

Well, I guess that the reality of it is, that executives and bosses almost always get free. And why is that? Because legislation goes hand in hand with big Money, aka big Companies.

That in turn, creates endless armies of laywers in huge lawfirms, WHO get enormous bonuses for preventing executives to get punished, go free of any jail or pay back huge sums of Money involved.

I just ask: if legislation and Courts are made to protect the really criminal people of whom we speak in this thread, how can they ever be nailed?

They cannot.

They are above the law.

That's a bit funny, as in old times, Laws punished stealing and greed more hard, than murder and wrape etc. Because Money were worth more, than a life of some low life, aka an ordinary working man or woman. An example of this is the fact, than in some countries, untill recently (relatively), a lord had first right to wraping Young women. Even just before their wedding night with an ordinary man. Later on, lords were not punished, when having wraped a woung woman, but she was cast out in shame by society and the lordship himself. But if someone stole a few coins, one could be in prison for ages, or even be hanged, shot, decapitated etc.

Now, Laws are created so, that if someone kills a mother and her two children by running them Down by car, driving on despite a full stop, there's hardly any punishment. If a politician is exposed in being involved in highly criminal acts, like bribing for millions of (whatever currency), they may, just may receive a warning or step Down from their office. But as I demonstrated with the case of vw Group in lower saxony, some of their politicians had highly personal economical interests and were exposed in playing double roles. They stepped Down, not from their political office, but from vw Group, only to be exposed yet another time only a few years later.

So, Laws are created by those in power, and WHO have lot's of Money to avoid any punishment.

Not all men are created equal.

Money talks, and if you have enough Money, you can but an army of smart laywers, WHO have absolutely no remorse in fighting in a Court, to get the criminal freed.

Executives, politicians, multinational companies, are above the law, because they wrote the law in the way that they paid for it.

One only have to look at the Financial crisis of recent years to realise that this is exactly what have happened. Both regarding legislation with respect to for example sub prime loans, thereby involving politicians and their hordes of officials, or the international banks and their boards of ececutives and ceo's WHO at large got free of any punishment, despite them being clearly exposed in speculating illegally and against their customers, being that ordinary single investors, governments or pension funds.

Finally, this can be seen Again and times Again, as ceo's are drowned in gold, even they have cheated their own Company, the states or customers in general.

Since politicians are very often tied Down by Companies in Financial interests, it's hard or they are unwilling to pursuit these cases.

They are above the law. Something similar will probably also happen in this case regarding vw and the now resigned Martin Winterkorn.

Cheers,

Jacques.

Edited by Jacques

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Note to self.................remember to buy vw shares just before this becomes next weeks chips wrapping paper. 

I would also more than  happily buy vw and skoda again.  Far better than the POS ford mondeos and escorts and misc vauxhalls I drove in the past.   Yes that may make me morally bankrupt but  the everyday cars I have are to get me A to B at least cost in the most reliable way I can manage, nothing more.  I don't buy them to make a statement about myself ( ones a skoda FFS) just to do a job.  They are white goods nothing else.   This is big business, like banking and government and  I expect to be screwed by them, Its the nature of the beast!!!!!   The only thing that would give me the hump is if the government changes the £30 a year road  tax I pay on the fabia.

Funny thing is Malcolm that when you look at things like Which? and JDpower the reliability of the VAG stuff is not that great to be honest. They are trading off historical build quality not current. In fact, Audi's, as the "premium" band are quite shocking when you look at A4, A6 and A3 with correspondingly high cost of repairs / warranty fix costs too.

If it's just a runabout, to be honest, Kia with it's 7 year warranty, Hyundai with it's 5 I think etc are better bets these days and even the Dacia too.

As has been mentioned before, in the past, say in the 70's, 80's and very early 90's the German cars were streets ahead, but not for the past 15 years and you pay a big premium too. I'd buy a Seat or a Skoda, but never a VW or an Audi as essentially mechanically the same car but the latter are 20 - 40% more expensive to buy and service.

Edited by C8RKH

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Early VW's up to mid 2000's were built in Germany. You can now buy a VW that has been built in Poland, a Mercedes that is built in South Africa or Portugal and now a Honda built in China or Mexico. This is why many of the cars that were seen as reliable are now, in reality not so much. Sadly, the build quality, pride in the Marque and tight QC checks aren't as stringent despite the companys attempts.

When I worked for Mercedes I had a C220 that was built in SA and I had 2 engines and a gearbox in it in 3 years. The new Honda HRV is built in Mexico, when I drove it earlier this year I thought it was rattily and felt more like a Vauxhall than a Honda. Likewise new JAZZ which is built in China.

All that being said, some manufacturers have increased build quality despite their history. Amongst those are the French marques (excluding Renault which are still terrible), Kia is like a whole new brand, Hyundai (which is a kia with a different bodyshell)

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And all that does Kimbers is to re-affirm my point of view that people who buy a VW, Audi et al are doijg so for the brand snobbery. The new Kia's / Hyundia's, Suzuki's etc represent excellent value for money in comparison and just like people are now turning to Aldi and Lidl for their shopping, I think we will see VAG and others struggle as people see through the "branding" and realise they are being ripped off, front, right, left and centre by marketing bullshit.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Yup - they thought about making it 220 but heck, they got under the limit so why spend more for that 1% plus they have more car engineers than software engineers too.

Lotus don't need dodgy software in their cars 'cos they've got lightness built in and a history of quality, top class engineering, in their HANDMADE BRITISH sports cars. That's why a Lotus will always beat a Porsche, 'cos it has soul and heart and you can hear the soul and hearts of the people who built them when the car is running round the track. Who said us Brit's are boring, stiff, rigid and passionless....  "hold me back, let me at em....."  :2guns::2guns::scared::scared:

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Anyone surprised by this?  DUH !!!  (first thing I thought when both the emissions scandal  and F1 possible deal were circulating on the same first day)

http://motorsports.nbcsports.com/2015/09/25/horner-red-bull-volkswagen-deal-up-in-smoke/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

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I just love the pics of Whiny Horner's face,  I used to respect the Red Bull team, but their behaviour in throwing their toys out of the pram and Renault under a bus (deserved or not) just shows a lack of sportsmanship and respect in my opinion. No team can dominate forever and these things go in cycles. Constantly threatening to walk when you are not winning is just plain cheap.

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I would think that every diesel car manufacturer subject to these rules would have to realise the auditors are coming.

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Switzerland have banned sales of VW diesels...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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I find all the outrage rather amusing :)  It's been known for a long time that diesel cars do not meet the emission requirements in real world driving conditions. The average diesel emits 7 times the Euro 6 limits for NOx which means they aren't even meeting the old 2000 Euro 3 limits.

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Sounds like a good time to pick up a bargain.  However my 54 plate passat shows no sign of dying at 160k miles so it will have to plod on.. The previous skoda superb 1.9tdi did 250k so still got a few years to go.

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I find all the outrage rather amusing :)  It's been known for a long time that diesel cars do not meet the emission requirements in real world driving conditions. The average diesel emits 7 times the Euro 6 limits for NOx which means they aren't even meeting the old 2000 Euro 3 limits.

I don't SailorBob. I'm not outraged that the figures are not want they should be, we all should be used to that with quoted mpg versus real mworld mpg. What I am outraged at is that a global company like VW had the audacity, arrogance or sheer bloody mindedness to put itself in a position where it has been found to knowingly defraud both Governments and Customers in such a blatant way. I am just so sick of hearing about stuff like this and think it is about time that those concerned actually paid for the crime!  Giving the CEO a £44m payoff is NOT the sort of penalty I think anyone, other than the warped minds of these people who are just looking after each other, thinks is just.  This must amount to Gross Misconduct so they should be sacked, end of, and no Golden Payout, as that is what would happen to anyone else.

It really is about time that people where hauled in front of the courts and then sent down for this stuff. That is the only way to halt this decline.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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I don't SailorBob. I'm not outraged that the figures are not want they should be, we all should be used to that with quoted mpg versus real mworld mpg. What I am outraged at is that a global company like VW had the audacity, arrogance or sheer bloody mindedness to put itself in a position where it has been found to knowingly defraud both Governments and Customers in such a blatant way. I am just so sick of hearing about stuff like this and think it is about time that those concerned actually paid for the crime!  Giving the CEO a £44m payoff is NOT the sort of penalty I think anyone, other than the warped minds of these people who are just looking after each other, thinks is just.  This must amount to Gross Misconduct so they should be sacked, end of, and no Golden Payout, as that is what would happen to anyone else.

It really is about time that people where hauled in front of the courts and then sent down for this stuff. That is the only way to halt this decline.

The truth is that in any given company you will find some senior manager who is willing to break laws and regulations for his own career, but its very unlikely that the CEO would be involved. Challenge is finding the culprits and the establishing a culture that uncovers such crimes before they hit the market. 

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