Know what you are buying, Same cars different Badge & Price

[Kimbers]

Thought it interesting that even some of my family did not know the connections between car Manufacturers, their products and Models, this has been shown by my Mrs not knowing that VW uses the same designs across 4 brands after reading about the VW emissions scandal. I think this is a fundamental thing that you should know when buying a car! WHY? I hear you cry.....well, for a start, you could be buying the same car with just a different bodyshell for much more money! Or even the same vehicle with the same bodyshell for much more money!

Manufacturers are actually quite sneaky on rebadging as much of the time they will change spec slightly so you can't quite get a like for like comparison other times they will work co-operatively to design much of the vehicle, ensuring it can take various different engines and then make it their own by putting their own engine in the vehicle (such as Crafter and Sprinter commercials). I don't know them all so I thought it would be interesting to start a topic where everyone can pipe up and tell everyone else the connections/direct comparisons.

Here's a couple of Examples:

Peugeot 108 - Citroen C1 - Toyota Aygo. All the same, all 1.0 engines (Though Peugeot who actually designed the base and drive train actually get 2 options including a 1.2 Vti which really shifts). The prices range from £11495 for the Toyota Mid range to £9995 for the Peugeot mid range.

One I'm sure you are all familiar with VW, Audi, Skoda, SEAT. on their Golf sized product you will pay much more for the A3 than you would the Golf, followed by the Leon and lastly the Skoda Octavia. Yes, believe it or not the Octavia is based on the Golf not the Passat like you would think!!! (The Superb is based on the Passat)

Lastly I'm sure we all know that the Mercedes Sprinter and VW Crafter are the same base unit but in terms of Commercials did you know that the Vauxhall Vivaro (Badged Opel in Europe), Renault Traffic and Nissan Primastar are all the same?

I could reel off a load more but am happy to open up the floor for you!

 

 

Edited September 30, 2015 by Kimbers

[Snoopy1969]

sure, but you have to keep in mind that not only the buying Price is relevant esp the resale value is also important, so to achieve a "comparable" Price of cars with the same "underwear" imho you should compare teh difference between buying Price and resale value

[C8RKH]

sure, but you have to keep in mind that not only the buying Price is relevant esp the resale value is also important, so to achieve a "comparable" Price of cars with the same "underwear" imho you should compare teh difference between buying Price and resale value

yup. put it all in the mix and do the maths. don't forget to check spec for spec in the price too and add in discounts on new price.

look at the new skoda superb, compare specs and prices, discounts and residuals against a similar spec high end VW Passat and an Audi A6 - you'll be shocked I think by the cost of badge snobbery

I heard that Mercedes where taking the new Nissan x-trail and badging it as one of their own. Just to keep on topic

[steve930]

Even spares prices can differ ! Amongst other vans i have a Renault traffic, pretty much every spare part for it can be sourced cheaper through  Vauxhall than either Renault or Nissan !! 

 

I remember several years ago a magazine printed a schematic diagram of all car manufacturers and who had interests/connections with each other 

It was eye opening to say the least!  

Edited September 30, 2015 by steve930

[mdw]

I had an old shape superb for 4 years. Fantastic car fully loaded and ran it from 100k  to  250k.   The passat I replaced it with had half the toys cost more,was less reliable and the only reason to buy it was Skoda didn't do a superb estate.

[Barrykearley]

Audi a2 designs and tooling are now held by SEAT.

now that was indeed a futuristic car

[auRouge]

What will the Lotus SUV actually be!!???

[Barrykearley]

What will the Lotus SUV actually be!!???

a slightly smoothed off ssangyong musso ?

[Andy Esprit SE]

On the Sprinter vs Crafter, same body, same running gear, different engine, gearbox and standard kit level.

Sprinter is to be redesigned in 2016 vw are going to build there crafter in poland when the new speinter goes into production.

The current thoughts are some of the factory tooling will go to poland as the new sprinter will be brand new.

New vito now has a 1.6 front wheel drive option, started life as a renault engine and gearbox but alk engine management is merc in the mer chassis, working good so far and avoids add blue in the vito market for now

[steve930]

I've got a feeling the Mercedes citan is shared with someone else, possibly fiat ? can't remember

[Escape]

I've got a feeling the Mercedes citan is shared with someone else, possibly fiat ? can't remember

That would be the Renault Kangoo...

Some other examples from the past that come to mind: Ford Galaxy - VW Sharan, Ford Maverick - Nissan Terrano 2, Ford Fiesta/Mondeo - Mazda 121/626

On the other hand, I also remember reading that the Rover V8 was (somewhat) tested after casting and based on this the blocks would be used in different vehicles. So there could very well be differences in quality.

 

[C8RKH]

That would be the Renault Kangoo...

Some other examples from the past that come to mind: Ford Galaxy - VW Sharan, Ford Maverick - Nissan Terrano 2, Ford Fiesta/Mondeo - Mazda 121/626

On the other hand, I also remember reading that the Rover V8 was (somewhat) tested after casting and based on this the blocks would be used in different vehicles. So there could very well be differences in quality.

 

Ford Galaxy ==> VW Sharan AND SEAT Alhambra - all built in Spain together if I recall correctly

Old Mazda 2 (I think, maybe the 1) was a Ford Fiesta

And wasn't that awful big Ssangypong think, the Rexton was it when it came out, based on the old Merc SUV?

[theelanman]

surely the moral of this story is that if you dont want a generic car clad in a couple of different styles of bodywork.....then buy a Lotus.......

ah!!!.......just thought about that.......wouldnt want everyone in one....otherwise we'd all be the same again.....argh.......

buy Japanese..........

Edited October 1, 2015 by theelanman

[Bibs]

S1 & S2 Exiges are just Elises with a few extra bits of bodywork. Who knew?!

[auRouge]

a slightly smoothed off ssangyong musso ?

Keeping the boys at HQ challenged at least.

 

 

[steve930]

That would be the Renault Kangoo...

Some other examples from the past that come to mind: Ford Galaxy - VW Sharan, Ford Maverick - Nissan Terrano 2, Ford Fiesta/Mondeo - Mazda 121/626

On the other hand, I also remember reading that the Rover V8 was (somewhat) tested after casting and based on this the blocks would be used in different vehicles. So there could very well be differences in quality.

 

ah knew it was one of them

, just like cars, van snobbery islive and well    with vw & merc being the elite.  I feel sorry for all the citan owners who think they've boughtan actual Mercedes  

[Dave Eds]

 

I sort of lost the thread of this when Kimbers mentioned superb and Skoda together.

Nothing else new really. My Mum's Wolseley 16/60 was the same as Dad's Morris Oxford and his later Riley 4/72, and also the Austin Cambridge. Not to mention all the minis and 1100s.

And then there was the Fiat 124/Lada Riva, the Jaguar Mondeo X type.......

[C8RKH]

I sort of lost the thread of this when Kimbers mentioned superb and Skoda together.

Nothing else new really. My Mum's Wolseley 16/60 was the same as Dad's Morris Oxford and his later Riley 4/72, and also the Austin Cambridge. Not to mention all the minis and 1100s.

And then there was the Fiat 124/Lada Riva, the Jaguar Mondeo X type.......

go and test drive yhe new Skoa Superb. You will be impressed, more so when you see the space inside and sticker price.

I really cannot fathom why anyone who at least partly loved their cash woukd ever buy an Audi A6 - RS6 excepted for obvious reasons.

[Kimbers]

I've got a feeling the Mercedes citan is shared with someone else, possibly fiat ? can't remember

As mentioned above, Renault Kangoo, but the FIAT Doblo is also a Vauxhall Combo!

Trouble with Citan is that they cost Mercedes money new and sell for Renault Money used!

[theelanman]

I sort of lost the thread of this when Kimbers mentioned superb and Skoda together.

Nothing else new really. My Mum's Wolseley 16/60 was the same as Dad's Morris Oxford and his later Riley 4/72, and also the Austin Cambridge. Not to mention all the minis and 1100s.

And then there was the Fiat 124/Lada Riva, the Jaguar Mondeo X type.......

so true..........but then it became british leyland.........

[Escape]

Ford Galaxy ==> VW Sharan AND SEAT Alhambra - all built in Spain together if I recall correctly

Old Mazda 2 (I think, maybe the 1) was a Ford Fiesta

And wasn't that awful big Ssangypong think, the Rexton was it when it came out, based on the old Merc SUV?

Indeed, I should have added the Alhambra. But I don't really differentiate between all the VAG blandness. The Maverick/Terrano2 were also built in Spain I think.

As for Ssangyong, they did use engines and platforms from Mercedes, but I heard they only got the designs and were responsible for the manufacturing themselves. Resulting in quite a big difference when you compared the engines!

Some more for the list, from when Daimler was in charge of Chrysler: Merc SLK - Chrysler Crossfire, Merc W211 E-class - Chrysler 300

Not to mention most of the line-up from GM. Or Rolls and Bentley in the 70s, 80s&90s.

[Barrykearley]

Has no one mentioned the most overlooked of all!! 

Mini, elf, hornet - all absolutely brilliant examples of English heritage

until red Robbo screwed it all up?

[steve930]

There was also Honda's involvement with triumph & rover producing several generic cars 

[MPx]

There's the full fat Range Rover that used to be unique in the "range" but now the Sport is the same platform...whereas the old RR Sport was a Discovery with a haircut and leather jump suit...much in the same way that the Evoke is a posh Freelander.  However this is getting a bit circular with the new Discovery Sport...which is based on ... an Evoke!!??

[Andy Esprit SE]

As mentioned above, Renault Kangoo, but the FIAT Doblo is also a Vauxhall Combo!

Trouble with Citan is that they cost Mercedes money new and sell for Renault Money used!

the Citans big money for a small van, there learning a lesson with it, only went into it to reduce average emmissions across the range with out full design of a new small van, the old A Class wheel chair carrier was the result of a small van design that cost more than a vito by the time it was done, thus was canned but clawed some money back on the car market.

It is different to the renault in alot of ways, standard kit, drive and engine management, most importantly 3 year unlimited mileage warranty (worth alot to medical couriers for one example) and up to 30 years breakdown cover as long as its maintained in the dealer network (re activates after a service).