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LotuStuart

Drive Shaft oil seal

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I was alluding to the generally rusty undersides of UK Esprits. Few other owners drive them in the wet, not to mention salted roads!

My link pins are frozen solid, they wont even turn :)! But glad to hear yours are still removable! 

 

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Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '91 Elan SE | '97 XK8

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@Vanya - you need fire, heat and tons of really bad swearing to shift them link pins

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Only here once

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57 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

@Vanya - you need fire, heat and tons of really bad swearing to shift them link pins

Ive got a whole lexicon of offensive language ready to unleash on them. It will be like therapy.

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Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '91 Elan SE | '97 XK8

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Good job!  Dropping the lower link is my preferred method for removing the driveshafts.  As you say, it is really simple and even re-alignment is pretty straight-forward with the help of a trolley jack. 

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1996 Esprit V8, 1998 Esprit V8 GT, 1999 Esprit S350 #002 (Esprit GT1 replica project), 1996 Esprit V8 GT1 (chassis 114-001), 1992 Lotus Omega (927E), 1999 Esprit V8SE, 1999 Esprit S350 #032, 1995 Esprit S4s, 1999 Esprit V8 GT (ex-5th Gear project), 1999 Esprit V8SE ('02 rear)

1999 S350 #002 Esprit GT1 replica

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Has anyone considered using a single coiled pin instead of the dual split pin approach?

https://www.spirol.com/library/sub_catalogs/cldp-What_Differentiates_Coiled_Pins_us.pdf

Any thoughts either way? I am tempted to give the coiled pin a try along with the dual seal approach.

cheers

-Chris

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Here's a pretty picture to help prompt some opinions. 🙂

Although it might be a moot point as I haven't found any the right size that are not sold in bags of 1000 so far.

403625679_SpiralRollPinHSPRP-A2_lg.jpg.b849f4dd81e25b1c23e0fa3feb722d24.jpg

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Pah - bastard things will leak no matter what. Either pin, driveshaft seals or box seam.

its a pointless and unwinnable battle

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14 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Pah - bastard things will leak no matter what. Either pin, driveshaft seals or box seam.

its a pointless and unwinnable battle

Yeah seriously. If Murphy's law dictates that SOMETHING on the Esprit is always gonna need doing, better it's the driveshaft seals than something else. Better the devil you know....


Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '91 Elan SE | '97 XK8

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I did mine with the double seal method. They were OK for a few months but they seem to be weeping again now...


Not worth starting anything now...🍺

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Ah nuts, that's the first report of the double seal method failing. However that is probably to be expected and when compared with the number of standard fitments I suspect the ratio of failures will be about the same.

But I live in hope so I have a pair of the below items coming, these are double lipped, I will compare them with the standard items and see which one takes my fancy.

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/Seals-Viton-Rubber/c19_4462/index.html

I have a second pair of single lipped items coming too which I had planned on using as the dust seal if necessary but I am not sure there is going to be enough depth for the pair of them. 10mm for the above and 7mm for the secondary items.

cheers

-Chris

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Just drain the oil out the box - reckon that’s the only way of stopping it weeping

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On 08/10/2015 at 12:48, LotuStuart said:

I just want to recommend Auto Revive of Harefield, West London.

They have an impressive history with cars (workshop full of Maserati, Ferrari, Mustang....) and have done a few jobs on my Esprit. They've replaced the oil seal, and I'll let you know if it leaks/doesn't leak....

Well worth a visit, telephone 01895 255229

 

Coming up to three leak free years.

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10 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Just drain the oil out the box - reckon that’s the only way of stopping it weeping

My gearbox did that by itself and it sure did work!


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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When I had my gearbox rebuilt, the bloke put an O-ring over the output shafts. Made the driveshafts difficult to get on, but no leaks so far.


Margate Exotics.

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Evening Chaps

Gearbox off side drive shaft seal leaking again....hardly use the car and it appears for whatever reason to just piddle spots of oil on the driveway. Sometimes its okay and at other times not ...Not coming from the roll pins as they are siliconed so I thought I would cure the Bastard thing as weather is fairly okay for working outside.

Just replaced seal with a Corteco Brown seal, topped up with oil and may have over filled and its now dripping oil more than before but not pissing out .  Filler/level plug is difficult to remove and I dont currently have a 10mm square female socket so to refill, removed the reverse light switch and filled with the same volume as that which drained when driveshaft removed. I also guest-imated plus another 200 - 250mls  or so to account for the amount of oil lost when driving etc etc  since I last did the seals. 

Anyone know .......when oil level is at correct level if the seal lower portion is level with above or below oil level ?

Just been reading with interest about the double seal method and if there are any recommendations as to whether this is a fix or to go with another Lotus/Renault seal. Either way it would be good to know.

Could save me wedging my ageing carcass under the car once, and not more.......

Thanks

  

 

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12 hours ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Evening Chaps

Gearbox off side drive shaft seal leaking again....hardly use the car and it appears for whatever reason to just piddle spots of oil on the driveway. Sometimes its okay and at other times not ...Not coming from the roll pins as they are siliconed so I thought I would cure the Bastard thing as weather is fairly okay for working outside.

Just replaced seal with a Corteco Brown seal, topped up with oil and may have over filled and its now dripping oil more than before but not pissing out .  Filler/level plug is difficult to remove and I dont currently have a 10mm square female socket so to refill, removed the reverse light switch and filled with the same volume as that which drained when driveshaft removed. I also guest-imated plus another 200 - 250mls  or so to account for the amount of oil lost when driving etc etc  since I last did the seals. 

Anyone know .......when oil level is at correct level if the seal lower portion is level with above or below oil level ?

Just been reading with interest about the double seal method and if there are any recommendations as to whether this is a fix or to go with another Lotus/Renault seal. Either way it would be good to know.

Could save me wedging my ageing carcass under the car once, and not more.......

Thanks

  

 

You could try the suggestion I made earlier. O-ring over the output shafts before you slide the CV inner on. It prevents oil leaking through in the first place, and worked for me. It was difficult to get the yoke lined up for the roll pins, used a ratchet strap in the end, but since then I've had no leaks.


Margate Exotics.

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Thanks Ian

I already had the "O" ring on the output shaft and also installed a second smaller OD  "O" ring to increase the seal width on the recommendation of the guy ( name escapes me) who used to carry out the Quaife one piece main shaft conversions/rebuilds.

Lining up the slightly offset roll pins drilling is something that can go wrong and I did that some time ago ( a guy in the USA has a youtube vid of how not to do that job ... poor sod) and to remove mine it was a die grinder and a small carbide burr and about 2-3 hours of careful grinding.....to remove a bent roll pin !

Not understanding tbh why the ratchet strap was required unless you had already assembled the upper rear link onto the upright. 

I found that sliding the drive shaft into position and then using a parallel pin punch to locate/line up the two components worked very well for re-assembly. Cant be 100% sure but I seem to recall using some sealant on the splines last time to help prevent oil seepage along that path and through to the roll pins.

Got me worried now though as if there should be some tension or pressure applied when lining up the roll pins this would suggest the "O" rings are not being compressed and therefore not doing what they are supposed to do. i.e., prevent the oil leaking ......

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Thanks Ian

I already had the "O" ring on the output shaft and also installed a second smaller OD  "O" ring to increase the seal width on the recommendation of the guy ( name escapes me) who used to carry out the Quaife one piece main shaft conversions/rebuilds.

Lining up the slightly offset roll pins drilling is something that can go wrong and I did that some time ago ( a guy in the USA has a youtube vid of how not to do that job ... poor sod) and to remove mine it was a die grinder and a small carbide burr and about 2-3 hours of careful grinding.....to remove a bent roll pin !

Not understanding tbh why the ratchet strap was required unless you had already assembled the upper rear link onto the upright. 

I found that sliding the drive shaft into position and then using a parallel pin punch to locate/line up the two components worked very well for re-assembly. Cant be 100% sure but I seem to recall using some sealant on the splines last time to help prevent oil seepage along that path and through to the roll pins.

Got me worried now though as if there should be some tension or pressure applied when lining up the roll pins this would suggest the "O" rings are not being compressed and therefore not doing what they are supposed to do. i.e., prevent the oil leaking ......

 

 

 

 

No, the gearbox was on the bench when I did the job, Paul.

The O-ring fitment is not standard, it’s a mod, and the reason the holes don’t quite line up and have to have a bit of help when fitting the roll pins is because the end of the CV joint butts up against the O-ring: which then has to be compressed further in order for it to make the seal.

So yes, if you can push the CV joint inwards past the point where the holes line up, I would say your O-ring is not being compressed.

Of course it’s impossible to know whether my lack of driveshaft oil seepage is down to the O-ring, or the lipseals, but given so many of us have problems with the damn things, it’s ‘belt, braces, and a bit of string’ when it comes to it.


Margate Exotics.

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Having read your message through again Ian, I think I get what you mean. 

About to order yet another seal which appears to be Corteco 12018948B (42 x 58 x 9/16) and a few of the r-21 ID26.5 section  - 3.5mm "O" rings ......to try this mod out. It makes sense what you said and the fact that the splined shaft lines up easily and allows easy alignment of the roll pins holes means the "O" ring might as well be sitting in the oil drain bowl than in the gearbox. 

Need to work out however how to pull the shaft into place so maybe  a ratchet strap, some cramps may just do the job. Belt and Braces its looking like.

Cheers for that

 

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14 hours ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Having read your message through again Ian, I think I get what you mean. 

About to order yet another seal which appears to be Corteco 12018948B (42 x 58 x 9/16) and a few of the r-21 ID26.5 section  - 3.5mm "O" rings ......to try this mod out. It makes sense what you said and the fact that the splined shaft lines up easily and allows easy alignment of the roll pins holes means the "O" ring might as well be sitting in the oil drain bowl than in the gearbox. 

Need to work out however how to pull the shaft into place so maybe  a ratchet strap, some cramps may just do the job. Belt and Braces its looking like.

Cheers for that

 

 

In my case a 50mm ratchet strap was required, wrapped around the box and tightened to compress the O-rings. Then the roll pins were knocked in after filling the holes completely with sealant, with more sealant forced in after they went in.

A cramp may do the job, but of course it depends on the O-ring size which, incidentally, I neglected to measure when I did the job Sorry, I can’t help with that!


Margate Exotics.

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Thanks for your help Ian.

I spoke to Chris Cole who explained the procedure using the factory O ring + a smaller sized O ring to act as a double seal. He mentioned that although this works on some gearboxes it wont on others .......( like mine !) 

Apparently there were service notes about the use of sealant on the splines as this also apparently helps. I will dig around and see if I can find out the size of the O ring you installed or if you can remember the guy who supplied yours I could contact them.

Paul

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22 minutes ago, modifiedv8engines said:

Thanks for your help Ian.

I spoke to Chris Cole who explained the procedure using the factory O ring + a smaller sized O ring to act as a double seal. He mentioned that although this works on some gearboxes it wont on others .......( like mine !) 

Apparently there were service notes about the use of sealant on the splines as this also apparently helps. I will dig around and see if I can find out the size of the O ring you installed or if you can remember the guy who supplied yours I could contact them.

Paul

 

It was Chris Cole who supplied them. That said, I have an issue with his rebuild due to the gearbox leaking elsewhere, but it certainly doesn't leak from the driveshafts. I haven't needed to use any sealant on the splines, though. Just a thought - is the breather clear?


Margate Exotics.

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From what you said Ian, I suspect your car has a Quaife diff as the V8s have a recess machined in the stub axle to accept the "O" ring whereas Quaife apparently did away with that problem area

Just ordered 4 of the Viton Renault seals from Germany + a couple of the black nitril rubber seals ( 7 & 8mm) locally to see if either solves the issue. If nothing else it will mean the seal lip is not locating directly on the light detent groove which has appear on the shaft over the years

For future reference, the Corteco Brown Viton (similar to the Renault item) seals have a greater heat range whereas the Nitrile rubber seal sandwich ( not available from Birdseye or McDonalds ho ho ho ) which appear to be used with some success have a lower heat range so this may explain why that configuration works only for a while and for some cars only.

Doesnt take much to "burn" the lip of an oil seal .......and the reason for application of clean oil to the seal lip when assembling. 

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