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JNW3

S1 value

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Afternoon folks - I know there's another thread about prices soaring already, but I have a question that hopefully you knowledgeable lot will be able to help with. I need to give my classic car insurers a valuation for my S1 and to be honest, I'm a little stuck. The car was fully restored to it's original factory spec last year, including a full interior retrim with original tartan, full respray and everything bar the chassis is new underneath - I'd argue that it's pretty much concurs except the engine, which was re-commissioned rather than fully rebuilt. I know Scott Walker was selling them in this condition at c£40K a couple of years ago and that a recent S1 James Bond press car was advertised for £55K and was snapped up straight away, but I'm not sure what figure I should quote. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated - cheers

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My insurance company agreed a value on mine which needs the interior doing and is on the road and used regularly at but not concours standard, but nice condition, at £28,000, without any real pushing and I suspect would have gone higher if I'd had the inclination, especially bearing in mind Paul's comments. Not too bad for something bought 8 years ago for £7000. Decent Esprits very rarely come up for sale so it's difficult to value. the Bond one, funnily enough, aren't usually concours and their values are swayed greatly by the Bond factor, so probably are representative. 

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Thanks for your replies guys. I've since been in touch with Scott Walker, who is now working for Lotus and he's advised me that the car would retail for £60K and should be insured for no less than £45K minimum - a pleasant surprise!

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Hi all,

That's really interesting.  Mine is roadworthy, MOT and taxed and I would say in average to good condition.  Body is OK but could do with a little work on the interior like the seats re-doing.  My agreed value with the insurance is £10k it sounds to me as if you are all saying this is a bit low?  Pictures attached.

Alec

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Hi Alec - I'm no expert but having investigated a bit, I'd say that's well short of it's market value now - apparently there are only about 40 UK S1s still accountable for and values have clearly risen in the last few years - I'd suggest asking an expert for a valuation and forward it onto your insurers

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Im in the same position... I have mine valued at £25k with the insurers. Maybe I should reconsider the value too.

Phil

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Im not sure if this is correct but what's the point of an agreed insurance valuation? I used to do this but the according to a discussion on here an insurance company will only ever pay the market value regardless of agreed valuation. If you have a decent S1 and it gets written off how much would it cost to get a like for like? If there are only 40 on the road you would have to be able to prise one off of another owner and what will that cost? Could be 30 could be 40? Who knows but Im sure you would be in a strong positions.Could be more than your agreed valuation?

Buddsy

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Hi Buddsy - I can't speak for anyone else's insurers but I use Footman James and if you have an agreed valuation with them then that's the figure they would pay out if something happened to your car (God forbid) - or so they say!

Edited by JNW3

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Club Lotus used to offer a valuation service for a small fee but I dont know how insurance companies view these. First one to offer me £50k for mine can have it. Please form an orderly queue :lol:

Phil

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First one to offer me £50k for mine can have it. Please form an orderly queue :lol:

Yeah I'm with you on that one.

Paul.

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Im not sure if this is correct but what's the point of an agreed insurance valuation? I used to do this but the according to a discussion on here an insurance company will only ever pay the market value regardless of agreed valuation.

Buddsy

That's simply wrong mate. Last time we had this discussion I posted a direct quote from an insurance company explaining that agreed value was what you'd get paid if the car was stolen or written off (less your excess, usually c£100 or so). Yes they won't pay out if it's not MOT'd or is being driven by somebody not authorised to or if its meant to be garaged overnight and it isn't but you wouldn't expect them to cough up in those circumstances would you..? 

If anybody has an agreed value and doesn't get paid the agreed value I'd be happy to look into it as I have some experience with insurance companies in my day job - last week I was judging the 'insurer of the year' awards. :)

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Wouldn't that make GAP insurance moot, certainly in the first year of car ownership?

You buy a car for £50k brand new, insurers have to insure it for £50k as that's clearly what's its worth on an agreed value policy and insurance is agreed for 12 months based on decisions made on the day the policy is taken out. 11.99 months later the car is written off, they'll surely pay the agreed value and not what the car is then worth? Wouldn't that also be illegal under 'betterment'?

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ah yes - but that's on a depreciating asset. An appreciating asset, or collectors item, is surely different

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Wouldn't that make GAP insurance moot, certainly in the first year of car ownership?

You buy a car for £50k brand new, insurers have to insure it for £50k as that's clearly what's its worth on an agreed value policy and insurance is agreed for 12 months based on decisions made on the day the policy is taken out. 11.99 months later the car is written off, they'll surely pay the agreed value and not what the car is then worth? Wouldn't that also be illegal under 'betterment'?

What we are talking about is agreed value on a classic car policy not GAP insurance.

Betterment is not illegal. Almost all household insurance policies are written on a 'new for old' basis so if you're TV is stolen you get paid enough to replace it as new not the peanuts that most second hand TV's are worth   

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In which case agreed value would be a waste of time, if the car is worth more the day after you take out of the policy, and every other day for the rest of the term. 

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Wouldn't go along with it being a waste of time but I can see your point if the value of a classic car was 'rocketing up' within the 12 months renewal period and you don't reflect that increase in value by getting a higher agreed value during the year.  

You usually have a no cost choice with classic car policies. Either you get your car's value agreed for the 12 months (but the value can be increased during the year) OR you go with "market value". The problem with the market value approach is that you will end up in a debate/negotiation over what is the market value at the time of loss which most people (quite rightly) don't want to do.

Whilst personally I think you'd be nuts not to have an agreed value on a classic car policy you invariably do have a choice. The point Buddsy was making was that they don't do what they say on the tin - they do. 

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The reason I'm so negative towards the policies is that a couple of directors of insurance companies have told me that they wouldn't just immediately write a cheque for the agreed value if it became clear this was quite departed from the market value. I assume there's a clause in the policy to reflect this, or they're covered under 'betterment' to be able to make this call. 

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I've honestly never heard of that before, ever. I've looked at a number of classic car policy wordings (and used to draft them) and none of them have such 'get out' clauses. If an Agreed Value is accepted by both parties at the start of the contract then it's a legally binding contract that isn't at the discretion of a couple of directors whatever company they work for.

I'd be really happy to follow this up off line as this sort of thing does nothing for either policyholders who start to fear agreed value policies won't do what they say on the tin and the insurance industry who's name gets tarnished by comments from a couple of insurance company muppets.

You sure you were talking to directors of the insurance company (the risk carrier) rather than the broker (middleman) like Classic Line, Haggerty or someone else?     

Edited by Bazza 907

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Ive spoken to Performance Direct today who insure my Esprit and they want to double my policy if I up the value to £40k but  they also said they would only pay out the market value for a total loss claim. Has anyone actually sold an S1 in the UK for £40k or is this merely speculation. I am going to ask Club lotus for a valuation and see what they come back with.....

Phil

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Has anyone actually sold an S1 in the UK for £40k

Yes, a few have sold for that money I believe.

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Just as a postscript, I forwarded my correspondence with Scott Walker to Footman James and they have now re-valued my S1 to an agreed value of £60K for its insurance, no questions asked.

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If these cars were valued based on their rarity then they would be £100k+ but as we all know rarity is not the be all and end all. I think in my lifetime they will be in the 6 figure league and my e-type will be £250k+ and at that point I'll sell them like a shot hahaha

If we all refuse to sell them it will drive the price up (supply and demand and all that) but whilst that's good for the owner it's not good for the wanna-be-owner and the only people who will then buy them will be wealthy collectors who won't drive them but lock them away in a private garage.

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