Lotus Evora 400 - Chris Harris

[brightoncorgi]

When do you think Chris Harris will do a review on the 400?

[NedaSay]

When a dealer or an owner accepts to lend him a car and he can source a set of tires. I don't think he's in the good graces of the marketing people in Hethel who yet could use a lot more exposure for the car, which did not receive the online (youtube vids) coverage it should have had. Lotus will need to do much better with the roadster.

[gengar]

When do you think Chris Harris will do a review on the 400?

He was not invited to the press days for the 400. Speculation is this is due to the (harsh) article he wrote on jalopnik about nationalism bias among UK auto journalists (I think from February of this year). I'll actually hold this over Lotus, as I'd like to think that if a company believes they've made a quality product, they'll want their biggest critics and their biggest disbelievers to experience it above all others. Isn't that the point of Lotus dealers offering test drives?

I am on the record stating I will not deposit for a 400 if Chris Harris doesn't review one first. I'm not even a fan of his style, but I trust him to call it as it is. And as good as the 400 seems especially with all the reviews and the commentary on here, I'll still be hard-pressed to go back on my word.

 

 

PS: has anybody else spotted that gengar has "2012 Lexus LFA" in his profile? That's the V10 hypercar isn't it? Wow!

Definitely just a supercar, even if a supercar highly regarded by its drivers.

While we're on the topic, if any of you want to talk about a car brand that is unappealing (and doesn't sell well at all) to people in the country that most of you appear to be from, I'm a moderator over at Club Lexus and we'd be happy to have you visit. (I don't think this violates the forum guidelines as it is a non-Lotus car site, but admins/mods please let me know if it does.)

Edited October 23, 2015 by gengar

[The Pits]

"I will not deposit for a 400 if Chris Harris doesn't review one first. I'm not even a fan of his style, but I trust him to call it as it is." 

I think this is the worst reason I've ever read for not ordering a car! 

You may trust him to 'call it as it is' but you really shouldn't. He's a very talented driver and appears to be more willing recently to offer tiny crumbs of criticism about Porsche products but that is a very new thing (which I applaud) but that is probably in response to widespread criticism of his openly pro-Porsche bias. His reviews of every new Porsche GT car for the past ten years have not mentioned any negatives at all, including the 991 GT3. Only now the GT3RS has come out do we hear about the understeer issue that the RS 'completely cures'. Funny, the GT3 revealed that the 997 had understeer issues too that were completely glossed over at the time. And so on and so forth. Why didn't Chris Harris mention the fundamental handling flaws at the time? I mention just one example. The stuff he wrote about the Evora 400 before he even drove one was incendiary, intended to shock, callous and unprofessional in my opinion. If you're basing all your trust and admiration on his exposure of Ferrari's road test tactics in Jalopnik then I would suggest that all of it was engineered too as part of his alignment with Porsche. Just look who gets to drive the latest Porsche first? Everyone has been cheating road tests for years. Why pick on Ferrari? Nissan's cheating is the stuff of legend. Anything with a turbo is the easiest thing in the world to crank up. I have even been asked by a manufacturer if I could use my car for a track test as they knew it had an uprated engine! And have you seen the laptimes Evo Magazine set in the 991 Turbo S? Much quicker than a 458 Speciale (that we know was cheating!) around a technical welsh track and only a second slower than a McLaren P1!

Seriously, forget what you read in the press right away. Just go and drive the Evora 400 and make up your own mind. Chris Harris is just one opinion and no opinion should count more than yours. Otherwise go and buy a crappy old 2CV and save a fortune. According to Chris Harris they are amazing!

[C8RKH]

Well said that man. If I was spending £80k or $120k on a car the only persons view worth a penny, a dime or a peso would be my own!

Would you choose your future wife on the basis of a you tube review? I'd  suggest you'd  want to experience it and maybe even test drive yourself first. I suppose you could always ask a mate or a random bloke to do it for you and give you their opinion?

 

 

[Bibs]

Chris Harris is a shock jock. While he can drive fast and wow, drift even, I care little for his opinion since that article. He entitled his Exige video 'Chassis from the Gods' then derided the 400 and the UK over the all-conquering Cayman GT4, neither of which he had driven at that time. Knob.

[gengar]

"I will not deposit for a 400 if Chris Harris doesn't review one first. I'm not even a fan of his style, but I trust him to call it as it is." 

But as much as Chris Harris would enjoy such devotion I think this is the worst reason I've ever read for not ordering a car.

You may trust him to 'call it as it is' but you really shouldn't. He appears to be more willing recently to offer tiny crumbs of criticism about Porsche products but that is a very new thing (which I applaud) but that is probably in response to widespread criticism of his openly pro-Porsche bias. His reviews of every new Porsche GT car for the past ten years have not mentioned any negatives at all, including the 991 GT3. Only now the GT3RS has come out do we hear about the understeer issue that the RS 'completely cures'.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and your criticism of my choices as a consumer. You are not, however, entitled to misrepresent facts. Chris Harris has definitely criticized cars in Porsche's GT range in his reviews - just off the top of my head, he hated the GT4's gear ratios and he did in fact mention the understeer in the base GT3 in one of his videos (I think it was the 458 Speciale comparo). And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure you will find many more negatives in his reviews if you choose to look for them and be honest about it.

In the event that you choose to continue on about my supposed "admiration" or "devotion" for Chris Harris, keep in mind I already stated I wasn't a fan of his style. In fact, I find most of his videos flowery and frou-frou and with so much unnecessary sideways action to the point that they feel ill-bred. It just so happens that, IME, having driven many of the cars he's reviewed either before or after he has, his commentary better matches my experience - especially in terms of the negatives - than other reviewers.

Additionally, In your rush to attack said supposed "admiration" and "devotion", you seem to have glossed over the point I was making. The nice part about having a lot of choice about what car I can buy next is that I don't have to be particularly rational or reasonable about it. And that means it's possible that a big factor in whether I will buy something is because I support a company or its ideology - or the opposite, too. That's one of the reasons I considered a 400 in the first place, because I like Lotus' ideology (and perhaps equally as important, I began to hate Porsche's current ideology and direction). And that was my point. It wasn't at all that I want Chris Harris to tell me if the 400 is any good; it's that if Lotus believes the 400 is that good, they should be more than happy to give Chris Harris the chance to tell me that - no matter what he's said about the company in the past.

[Stubox]

One person to listen to on the dynamics of the product would be Matt Prior. Interesting to see how when he was talking about this area the other scribbers stopped talking and listened. Sutcliffe in his pomp was very good too. Not saying the other chaps n ladies ( Meaden, Bovingdon, Vicky P etc ) are bad, just Matt seems to have a finer way of understanding and putting across whats occuring. Oh and Greg Kable if you're interested in euro industry info, far too well informed.

As for Chris Harris driving a 400. Sure he will one way or another , but probably when he's got through a long list of other product and when he needs more content for video. I certainly wouldn't be waiting for his blessing before I bought a car though.

[gengar]

Would you choose your future wife on the basis of a you tube review? I'd  suggest you'd  want to experience it and maybe even test drive yourself first. I suppose you could always ask a mate or a random bloke to do it for you and give you their opinion?

 

 

Given I have an open relationship with my primary girlfriend, it's funny you put it this way. Do I know you IRL?

In all seriousness, you also missed my point. Perhaps it's a good time to go back and examine what I actually said, instead of what you and others jumped to infer:

"I will not deposit for a 400 if Chris Harris doesn't review one first."

What I absolutely did not say:

"I will not deposit for a 400 if Chris Harris doesn't review one first and say that he likes it."

So, to use your humor (or is that humour?), the appropriately analogous comment would be:

What if a potential wife told you that she did not want one of your long-time mates giving you his opinion on whether she would make a good wife?

My answer is that if that happened to me, it would raise questions.

 

[C8RKH]

Gengar, haha, yeah, I was trying to be funny and lighten things up. To answer your question:

"What if a potential wife told you that she did not want one of your long-time mates giving you his opinion on whether she would make a good wife?"

I would actually think that was perfectly reasonable as I was not looking to make my mate my wife and certainly would not want him to test drive my future wife first so I could get his opinion!

Also, just because we are mates does not mean that we share the exact same tastes, needs wants etc - either from a car or a wife! 

Personally, I'd take my wife for a test drive myself. I'd make my own mind up based on the experience, and then either pop the question and do the deal or walk away. To be frank, I could not give a damn on what my mates thought, if they were real mates they'd stand by my decision.

Thankfully this approach seems to have worked as me and my wife have been together for 21 years so far.

As for Chris Harris, yeah, I'd listen to what he had to say, but even if he said it was shit, I'd still want to drive it myself to find out for myself but no reviewer is going to convince to buy, or not buy, a car. Only my experience behind the wheel will do that. I guess I just value my own opinion and experience over others. Others opinions are just that, and are for info only.

[The Pits]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and your criticism of my choices as a consumer. You are not, however, entitled to misrepresent facts. Chris Harris has definitely criticized cars in Porsche's GT range in his reviews - just off the top of my head, he hated the GT4's gear ratios and he did in fact mention the understeer in the base GT3 in one of his videos (I think it was the 458 Speciale comparo). And that's just off the top of my head. I'm sure you will find many more negatives in his reviews if you choose to look for them and be honest about it.

In the event that you choose to continue on about my supposed "admiration" or "devotion" for Chris Harris, keep in mind I already stated I wasn't a fan of his style. In fact, I find most of his videos flowery and frou-frou and with so much unnecessary sideways action to the point that they feel ill-bred. It just so happens that, IME, having driven many of the cars he's reviewed either before or after he has, his commentary better matches my experience - especially in terms of the negatives - than other reviewers.

Additionally, In your rush to attack said supposed "admiration" and "devotion", you seem to have glossed over the point I was making. The nice part about having a lot of choice about what car I can buy next is that I don't have to be particularly rational or reasonable about it. And that means it's possible that a big factor in whether I will buy something is because I support a company or its ideology - or the opposite, too. That's one of the reasons I considered a 400 in the first place, because I like Lotus' ideology (and perhaps equally as important, I began to hate Porsche's current ideology and direction). And that was my point. It wasn't at all that I want Chris Harris to tell me if the 400 is any good; it's that if Lotus believes the 400 is that good, they should be more than happy to give Chris Harris the chance to tell me that - no matter what he's said about the company in the past.

OK I get that you're not devoted to Chris Harris's style and you have every right to be irrational and unreasonable if you choose. I'd say refusing to order a car until Chris Harris has driven it is right up there. His surprising criticisms of the GT4 are included in this bit: "more willing recently to offer tiny crumbs of criticism about Porsche products but that is a very new thing (which I applaud)". If you look deeper into his GT4 views they are really towing the Porsche party line, reasserting the superiority of the 991 GT3, putting the GT4 in its place. Porsche are ever protective, bordering on the paranoid about the 911. There was not one single word against the 991 GT3 - at the time - which is when people like you are depending on his reliable opinion. You only get the stuff that's less than perfect about it when the next new Porsche comes out. This is not unique to Chris Harris, this is a very common journalistic nonsense. Fuelling the hype to ingratiate themselves with a popular manufacturer is a good career move, something Chris Harris has taken to new levels by being openly pro-Porsche. Journos used to at least pretend to be impartial. He's also very strategic about the cars he does criticise. I think the Evora is a soft target, low risk way of him playing the 'I call it like it is card' on Jalopnik. The whole Drive thing (which he dropped like a hot spud) was only to build an audience in the US another smart career move. I have had personal dealings with Chris Harris and even  questioned him about the lack of criticism of the 991 GT3 and the nice guy persona got dropped pretty quick! If he really called it like it is he'd offer both praise and criticism where it's due. As we know, no car is perfect, so a review without criticism is not 'calling it like it is.'

Lotus does believe the Evora 400 is good. Harris burnt his bridges with Lotus (for the time being) with his Twitter and Jalopnik comments about the 400. He knew perfectly well what he was doing and what the consequences would be. He must have decided his 'calling it like it is' reputation was worth more to him than an Evora 400 review. He's probably right on that. For what it's worth Harris was really reacting to the press reaction to the original Evora's launch where it was declared the new Messiah in the british press. What he wrote about the 400 (before he even drove it!) is really all about that.

[gengar]

OK I get that you're not devoted to Chris Harris's style and you have every right to be irrational and unreasonable if you choose. I'd say refusing to order a car until Chris Harris has driven it is right up there.

What would you say about claiming someone has "not mentioned any negatives at all" about something when that is absolutely, utterly, and verifiably false?

As I've stated, I don't think putting Lotus in higher regard for a (IMO) laudable vision in how cars should drive and be made is in any way different than asking questions when Lotus isn't willing to give its critics access for reviews. Both have little to do with my experience of the actual car or how much owning the car benefits me. Certainly, I acknowledge that others may disagree with that position and I respect that. I just hope said discussion can be done rationally, reasonably, and factually, with respect for everyone's perspectives.

 

 

As for Chris Harris, yeah, I'd listen to what he had to say, but even if he said it was shit, I'd still want to drive it myself to find out for myself but no reviewer is going to convince to buy, or not buy, a car. Only my experience behind the wheel will do that. I guess I just value my own opinion and experience over others. Others opinions are just that, and are for info only.

Agree completely, and I'd never imagine doing otherwise.

Edited October 23, 2015 by gengar

[brightoncorgi]

 Chris Harris gave the Exige a good review and I do think the British press leans favorably to British cars (and usually Alfa), but that's OK to me.  I do the same.  His video reviews are well directed and produced and I would take a bet that he'll have a great review on the 400.  Part of enjoying one reviewer over another is the slant and prejudice they bring.  If you share similar fundamental's, the review makes even more sense.  No way is he not going to dig the sounds, looks, and feel of the 400; who wouldn't?

[The Pits]

Go take a look at Harris's GT3 video for yourself Gengar. If you count his comment about the g-meter being silly as you're just being pedantic. You will however find a lot of criticism about the 997 GT3 which was never mentioned at the time.

If you feel you have to wait for Harris's Evora 400 video (which will probably never happen) just bear in mind the backstory and be aware of his agenda. You seem to have put a lot of store in the idea that Lotus are 'running scared'. If a man slates a car before it's even been launched what really is the point of giving him a further opportunity to put buyers off?

[Gashead1105]

Meh. I like Chris Harris' videos but the fact that he had or hadn't driven/reviewed a car is neither here nor there to me. Don't know where you are located in the US but assuming there is a dealer in the same state wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to drive the car and make your own mind up (I have driven the Silverstone demo and Greg has taken me out in his (Charlotte's!) and it's a cracking car in my opinion). You could even have a go in the V6 exige at the same time...

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

The biggest surprise to me about how this thread has developed is that Chris Harris seems to have become the world's foremost motoring journalist.

Why? I wouldn't hold his opinion in any higher esteem than any of the other poor hacks trying to make a living out there. There's already plenty of Evora 400 reviews out there. There's no need to hang around waiting for his (if it ever happens).

[NedaSay]

I think it must be said that as far as motoring journalism/entertaining  goes Chris Harris is one of the biggest name in the industry right now. He has massive presence over the internet, be it Youtube (287,808 subscribers!), twitter (117k followers) Instagram, blogs... his articles/vids are read or seen by hundreds of thousands while other very good motoring journalists are not read or followed as much. Harris is a very vocal voice. No one can take that away from the guy. He's invited by the biggest names in the Industry to drive their cars  for a few good reasons I think. 

At the wheel, he's a bit of a "yobo" but lets be honest here, so are Clarckson or Needell... I don't drift my car as much (well it's  Prius C...) and I don't destroy my tires because of him but I find him entertaining. Will I base a purchase based on what he or another journalist has to say probably not... But will I watch his vids or read an article from him, cause it's good fun.   

Going back to the Lotus review problem, on launch, the Evora 400 got a good number of publications to write a piece about the car, but only 2 "major outlets" videos (Xcar and Pistonheads).  Two days ago McLaren launched the 570S, on the same day Evo, Auto-Express, Chris Harris, XCar... put their full length vids on Youtube. As it was a global launch the US outlets (Motortrend, Road and Track)... will probably put even more vids on the 570S out by next week. Maximizing the presence and establishing the car in the mainstream. 

This is kind of a problem for Lotus that needs to be addressed I believe they need a lot more media coverage. I believe that part of the problem with the launch may have been a particularly gloomy weather but there's to be more to it.  Lotus needs to do a better job at optimizing his media coverage the next test will be the roadster launch.

[Gm77]

gengar

As you've probably noticed, there's some animosity towards Mr Harris on here!

From my perspective, given your background with the LFA, I think it's a great sign that your spending time on these forums. The fact that you are considering a deposit for a 400, is an even better sign. 

Everyone is different, and different things will influence their behaviour; that's just human nature. 

If you do decide in the future to organise a test drive, and I appreciate that isn't easy in the States, I'm confident you'll like it. And if you don't, that's also fine. A word of warning though, there is a Lotus bug! It bit me two years ago - and no amount of medication will cure me. 

Best of luck with whatever purchasing decision you make.

Greg

[The Pits]

Chris Harris has been unpleasant to me personally, I suspect he's a very hot tempered individual when the cameras aren't rolling but I envy his car control, ease in front of the camera and enjoy his videos. His recent video on the GT3RS, Aston Martin GT12 and McLaren 650S raised some very interesting questions and was surprising in its conclusions, in particular that the Porsche wasn't declared the best of the three or set the fastest laptime. I think he feels the need to prove that he isn't working for Porsche and I think his videos have benefitted from this. In fact he was one of the more critical journalists of the GT4, I never saw that coming! He is hero worshipped on Youtube whereas someone equally worth watching like Matt Prior (as Stu already mentioned) is derided as being boring and half asleep - which is no doubt what most would think of my videos if I worked for Autocar! They are a very tough crowd on Youtube - Matt Saunders's Speciale video was a total oversteer fest and all the comments were about his manboobs wobbling. The poor sod hasn't done a video since!

But Harris did his level best to burn the Evora 400 before anyone had driven it and that would be the main reason for the animosity on here.

Do I think he would like it if he did a review? I think he would still take the opportunity to find fault with it. Ominously he makes a comment at the end of his McLaren 570S video: 'Do you know what we have to start driving some cars that are bad because all this good news is becoming a bit boring" I fear that the Evora 400 would be bear the brunt if it were next. For whatever reason he's never been very complimentary about the Evora. But then again he spent quite a few years dismissing the whole idea of steering feel, claiming that it didn't exist, so perhaps the Evora's more obvious strengths are lost on him.

 

[Gm77]

Do I think he would like it if he did a review? I think he would still take the opportunity to find fault with it. Ominously he makes a comment at the end of his McLaren 570S video: 'Do you know what we have to start driving some cars that are bad because all this good news is becoming a bit boring" I fear that the Evora 400 would be bear the brunt if it were next. For whatever reason he's never been very complimentary about the Evora. 

I would be pretty relaxed about this.

The 400 isn't perfect, but then, neither am I. My wife and I joke that it's not the easiest car to drive in a straight line as the steering is quite sensitive in the 'straight-ahead' position where many other cars have steering that is especially dumb. It does mean that you're constantly paying attention and then you learn how to respond and adapt. There's been a lot of discussion regarding the lack of climate control, but it's only taken a few drives for us to work out how to make it work as we would expect.

All these points mean that we are learning to both drive and live with the car, which basically reinforces the bond we have with it. Car reviewers only have a short time with cars (unless you're Bibs - lucky so and so), so their comments will reflect any short comings. Learning to overcome these is part of the fun of actual ownership (unless they are of course fundamental!). Those cars that flatter the driver and have no shortcomings in my eyes are boring - see, I agree with Chris Harris! I would then look to move on to the next one.

My wife recently treated me to a day at Donington Park in a standard road-going Evora S Sports Racer with Jamie (a top bloke) from the Ultratek GT4 race team in the passenger seat! (OK - so I'm pretty lucky too!) An amazing day and under his guidance I improved massively (from a very low base). However, at the end he treated me to a couple of hot laps. By comparison, my best lap was no more than a casual Sunday drive compared to his when he wasn't even trying. But it made me realise what the 'old' Evora can do, and how much more I need to learn before I even get within 25% of that. Everything from braking and throttle control to gear changes and lines. Learning to get there is what ownership of the 400 is all about for me.

Cars like the GTR (and other superbly competent ones) are sold on the basis that a new driver can achieve great things immediately. That's absolutely fine, but it's not for me. I still remember the first time I perfected a double de clutch change, or a 'perfect' heel and toe. 

Car reviewers mark cars down for what they perceive as flaws. I see them as challenges, and overcoming them makes me a better driver. And I enjoy the journey.

Reviewers may say that the 400 isn't perfect, but that's one of the reasons why I bought one and, as I said to my wife recently, there isn't another car in the world I would swap it for.

 

[99Problems]

 

Going back to the Lotus review problem, on launch, the Evora 400 got a good number of publications to write a piece about the car, but only 2 "major outlets" videos (Xcar and Pistonheads). 

That Xcar review is what lead me to look into the Evora 400.  Ironically I was on the Xcar Youtube channel to watch the Jag F Type R review again.  Shortly after finding that I began scouring the internet for more review videos, but there are very few.  While there were some print reviews as well, there clearly were a lot less than its competition.  Could be Lotus wouldn't have the resources to produce the car in large enough quantity if they got a huge amount of coverage and response, but then again... not a bad problem to have :-)

[Bibs]

There are enough press cars to go around. I think, from memory, there were at least 6 at the press launch I attended which are still available for press duties.

[Colin G]

I was bored of Chris Harris long before the 400 comments.

When I was sat in MMC yesterday I read the review of the 400 out on a test with the Vantage GT12, it was positively glowing with almost unanimous praise for the car. Did make me look out of the corner of my eye at the one sat in the showroom thinking, "Hmmm, maybe I should consider......". 

[bingoking]

I was there yesterday too but missed you.

[Colin G]

Aye, was a shame that, I had a business proposition for you.