Exige S240 Noise problems

[Atak]

Hi all, purposely went to Brands in August to get a static test done with my 2011 Exige S240 which also has a stage3 exhaust and Trd ind kit fitted and came out at 94db in August which I was told was very good but may exceed drive by limits. The static test yesterday at Brands came in at 92db this time and after some excellent tuition I guess I was increasing noise levels till the dreaded black flag! I was told next year this is going to be a bigger problem now at some tracks so I need to get this sorted. The exhaust can only be 18 months old but appreciate noise levels increase with age and not sure if the induction kit is also contributing. I do get some nice pop/bangs too which don't help readings too but wondered what you guys with similar problems have done to bring this down to a level your not sadly holding off near the mic? Any help greatly appreciated. 

Regards,

Dave. 

 

[Arun_D]

I think the Lotus Stage 3 is notorious for falling foul of track driveby noise (somewhat ironically, being a Lotus part).

Most would recommend something from 2bular if you want pops and bangs etc but still enjoy your track driving. I had a 2bular 8x22" and only had issues at Bedford and Goodwood 'quiet' days. Did Brands plenty of times with no issue. Adding a TRD airbox didn't harm this.

[Atak]

Thanks for that Arun, I've now gotta try and get one on in a month for the 12th LOT. 

[Atak]

Like the sound of a re-packable one as they deteriorate over time but after how long? Anyone?

[Bibs]

@2bular Exhausts may be able to answer that for you

[Atak]

Would you still say B&C to put that in Bibs?

[Atak]

Nice guy Jim at 2bular. De-cat and Re-packable H1 silencer ordered  There not throwing me off again! 

He did explain the job is a p.o.p. to fit but he hasn't met me. On the hunt now for new alternative garage to work my baby. 

[Bibs]

B&C would be my first choice, but for something simple like this perhaps Maidstone Sports Cars. Just make sure you get a quote first and that they stick to it

[Atak]

Misunderstanding there, no decat or it'll fail mot ?He explained about bulky Lotus cat that restricts using the larger quieter silencer so maybe its just silencer or an alternative is a non aesthetically pleasing look of removing rear grill and relocating number plate but don't know what that'll look like, doesn't sound good. Suppose could put cat back in for mot purposes but that would surely be naughty?

Thanks Bibs, have asked Mark at Lipscomb who has helped me plenty for a quote as its only a bread n butter 1 hour job but will ask Maidstone for one too as its even closer (we know how much already ?). B&C or Hangar111 will wait for that baffled oil sump and racing chargecooler after Xmas as its quite a journey. Then onto Ecu, injectors and pulley ill do myself like you suggested. Would have been at the meet too last week but sadly I fell asleep, I could almost taste them Neville Bull ribs all day too - gutted. 

[philcool]

I've used Hanger 111 3 times now for new alloy rad and servicing just to keep the book stamped very nice people to deal with and prices good have flushed the gearbox through twice now with Red Line MT 90 and is about 10% better as for the exhaust will be interested to hear how you get on as my exhaust is a lotus stage 3 I think and is 96db in cabin at approx. 7000rpm hope all goes well if you can get the back up on ramps suspect swapping exhaust shouldn't be to bad Halford ramps very well made but had to make some ramp extenders out of 4" channel painted with sand mixed with hammerite on top serface to stop any wheel slipping work a treat only had the trolly jacks under front when checking gearbox level

[Atak]

Hi Philcool, have spoken to Hangar 111 a couple of times and been really helpful. Just wish they weren't so far away or maybe that's a good thing seeing all the upgrades they do. What was the gearbox flushes for or is that and engine oil to be replaced more regularly after track days? Only just had full serviced but will get anything flushed if it should be. I'd more than love to do it myself Phil but sadly I'm not that nimble after a bad car accident although I can still get in/out a Lotus unlike some able bodied people!  The static test if any similar to mine is between 92-94db tested outside the car at 5250rpm which is fine but as I've been explained by 2bular Lotus decided to design a silencer system which acts like a whistle creating more noise/drone so your drive by limits will fail. I was warned of this a while ago by Paul Golding and he was right. Should be on within 3 weeks when I find the right garage so ill let you know.

[philcool]

Only flushed the gearbox as seems can be a weak point and had heard good things about Red Line MT 90 so decided to give a go will be interested in your exhaust exploits as mine has a slight rattle of the baffles and suspect wont be long before its demise its about 160 mile round trip to Hanger from SE London I leave the car with them for the week and pick it up the next Saturday very impressed when my rad went they had all 3 alloy ones and silicon hoses for me to choose from and you can have your service your way I always use Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 and supply it myself no problems and never had any scratches or scuffs on the sill panels when people get in and out and the cars kept inside all week they wrap the car inside as well bit anal but that suits me and I must admit your right they got some lovely upgrades its like a Lotus sweet shop.    

[Atak]

Sweetly shop is exactly right Phil and I've got a very sweet tooth  Do love your colour paintwork, same as my very first car 1.6s Capri. Thanks for the gearbox oil heads up ill get that ordered too, definitely as its a weakpoint.

Well after my last garage escapade this year of my front clam needing to be replaced plus a new rad before the Lotus one commonly blows and a new expansion tank to replace the only 4 year old Toyota Denso plastic one that was leaking that the quoted cost was  more than a new alloy one delivered from USA that all took over 4 1/2 months. Clam got delivered elsewhere so an extra weeks delay, given the wrong bank details to transfer large amount of bucks, scratched bodywork and especially access panels (I'd detailed it myself so it was spotless nearly and knew every blemish left on the paintwork/plastic), missing rubber grommit stop on boot lid, Nose cone badge installed off centre which was damn ugly and annoying, new Radiumauto alloy expansion tank also fitted at the time but they had scratched the cap with the logo on so it now looked second hand. And to top it all it wasn't even washed imo but did kindly leave difficult baked on white wax on the grill parts round the car which is still not all completely removed. They did put a piece of brown paper on the drivers mat so that's about it for wrapping/covers compared to your cars fine attention to keeping it clean and pristine as they received it. I also had fitted a triple pass rad purchased from Hangar111 too but they tried to charge 4 hours labour+vat for a 1/2 hour job to fit (front clam was already off btw for the replacement). They also relaced the engine oil again only 4 weeks after it had just been done when the pipes burst (Lotus recall fault). If the clamshell hadnt been an insurance claim Im sure it would have all turned out different but you can see why I'm on the lookout for someone new ?I'd love to have a garage close by I could trust and believe I wasn't being robbed!

At the track yesterday another Exige S there offered me a new standard exhaust he had so if your interested in that I can pass on his details Phil if you don't want to go for a dear one. 

[philcool]

Thanks Atak for the heads up on the exhaust but will probably go for a 2bular like you sorry to hear about your problems I think the nose cone badge being off centre would have tipped me over the edge, you must have been very unlucky to have the oil cooler hose split had the recall done at B&C they had to change the nearside oil cooler as well as the fitting was damaged on removal of the line at no charge they do a good job at B&C but Hanger 111 as good and labour rates lower and you can talk to the guy whose working on your car out of interest who was looking after your car or would you rather not say. Anyway will follow your post to see how the exhaust goes just as a foot note gearbox takes 2.3L and always make sure you can get the fill plug open before you drain it done that on my old MK3 Cortinas rear diff years ago turned into a drama ended up pressure filling it from the drain plug and making a real mess and it was in my dads garage he went nuts when he came home from work.    

[Atak]

 

REALLY not impressed with the first quote to just fit a silencer so I'm gonna ring Hangar111 tomorrow and see what else they could fit in time like maybe the Moroso Baffled oil pan or Accusump to make the journey worthwhile but fitting it in before the track day next month a must. Oh and the Red Line MT90 gearbox oil too if possible. Have been buying all my fluids from Hangar111 and they delivered them straight to said garage to use. 

[Hangar 111]

Hi Atak.

We have our own line of exhausts which might work for you too, if you've not already ordered from Jim...

Feel free to give us a shout if you still need help.

And thanks to Phil for the plug

Dave

[Atak]

Hi Dave, thanks for your reply and offer of help. I've ordered the race Re-packable from Jim at 2bular already and should be with me this week on very good recommendations. Much like yourselves Dave your rep' bodes well at Hangar111 so rather than a rush job for my next track day Ill definitely be in contact in the new year to address the potential oil starvation issues associated at the track. 

Regards,

Dave. 

[Atak]

It's arrived, and soooo shiny!

[philcool]

Very nice bet you can't Waite to get it fitted will be awaiting with baited ears nice pic we like shiney 

If its as good as expected I can see me giving Jim a call in the new year 

[Atak]

Nice weather today for a silencer change. Really was a sub 1 hour job and was in no rush, I just wished I'd done the Oil pan while the diffuser was off. Certainly less pop/bangs which I loved but it is substantially quieter and still sounds good. Just hope it sorts out the drive by problems this Saturday at Brands which is what is was bought for. Shiny shot just for you Phil.

 

[Atak]

On 11/23/2015 at 15:27, Hangar 111 said:

Hi Atak.

We have our own line of exhausts which might work for you too, if you've not already ordered from Jim...

Feel free to give us a shout if you still need help.

And thanks to Phil for the plug

Dave

Hey Dave, black flagged again for exceeding drive by noise limits with the new silencer on at Brands Hatch yesterday. How much do you think the TRD airbox is contributing to the problem? And what do you think is the solution is? Maybe a silenced de-cat pipe? Help much appreciated as Id like, to be back out on the track asap. 

Was also told yesterday there were some awesome blue flames sometimes on the down changes if that sheds any light on the problem - cat maybe?

[Hangar 111]

Dave, the airbox won't be making very much difference really, it's still keeping the induction noise enclosed.  If you have a de-cat, then that will make a difference, so probably worth resolving that.  Am slightly surprised given the size of your 2bular, but it sort of depends on the design of the silencer rather than just the size.

Dave

[2bular Exhausts]

Heh! A day off today. Might as well use this case as a feature/guide to my track systems.

Seems that since Brands lowered their noise limit (now 92dbs), it's becoming the new Bedford (87.5dbs). I've got plenty of owners running this system - 8 x 22 H1 Re-Pack - at places like Bedford with no problems.

I always recommend NOT to fit the TRD - it makes a nice noise but supercharged cars are noisy enough without adding intake to the mix. It's the drive-by that gets you and I guess the mics at Brands are positioned where max revs are taking place?

NOISE is a big issue now - mainly for supercharged cars - and for 2016 and beyond, I will firm up my recommendations for anyone tracking their car.

I've got more experience than most at keeping the SC'd cars "quiet" enough for tracks here and across the channel. Everyone wants the best-sounding exhaust (of course) but that won't get you on a UK/EU track. I'm only interested in supplying the best-performing exhaust too, so no restrictions going on inside the silencer - and you need to keep the packing materials in excellent condition, so that means a Re-Pack silencer. The H1 (Helmholtz chamber) knocks 3-5dbs off the sound - it's essential now. It's concentric with the bore of the silencer, so no dronnnnnne. 

It's a complete PITA to fabricate/weld - and the chamber itself HAS to be double-skinned to eliminate that dronnnnnnne.

For best noise-control, I strongly recommend the 8x24 H1 Re-Pack in the GT3 layout. With the central in/out pipework, the core pipe has the same density of packing all around it. Ignore the Ti tip - just a bit of bling and not recommended for best noise-control! Easy to change out though. I'll have an add-on silenced tip later this month.

 

 

Not everyone wants to remove the rear grilles/number-plate, they want the factory look with the oval tip so I have to fit an off-set system to clear these parts 

 

I wonder if a twin-tip layout might better control the noise rather than the fat 6x4 oval? Haven't had a back-to-back with this yet.

 

 

 

Catalysers: are not silencers but they can do a decent job of trimming some db's off. The factory catalysers have a ceramic substrate. A very close mesh - typically 500/600cpsi (cells per square inch). This is a fragile component held/crimped in the body of the catalyser. With large on/off throttle openings and gas-pressure reversals on an SC'd install, that substrate can shatter - seen it many times.

On a "Sports/Race Cat" with a 200/100cpsi metallic substrate, those large on/off throttle openings on track, throwing raw fuel down the pipe, can certainly over-heat the substrate. It's brazed to the body and if the over-heating continues, that braze melts. The substrate is now loose and the gas-pressure of the SC will force it down the exit cone - it's a very good plug - not the best condition.

The 100cell Race catalysers have proved to be very noisy. The dyno curve is almost the same as a de-cat/test pipe - but they're not too clever on emissions tests, so I've dropped them and now fit the 200cell HJS catalyser (HD version). Feedback says a more "muffled" sound and the HD version has this feature 

 

 

Can you make out the "dip" in the profile? The body is crimped in the centre - it's very clever. Used to be one crimp but now it's three. You can only do this with an S-wound metallic substrate (the early spiral/concentric substrates would break). Even if the braze melts, that substrate won't move. Still think the SDCP is best idea for a track car though.

 

Silenced De-Cat Pipes; being used more and more - and not just by the SC'd guys. Solves a lot of problems. It's an extra silencer for the tight tracks. No worries about burning/blowing out the packing. My designs have no packing materials internally, so zero maintenance. On Dave's (OP) install, he's kept the factory catalyser and the rear grilles/number-plate, so that meant an off-set 8x22. With the SDCP fitted, I could have used the bigger 8x24 off-set - (you have to trim 2" off the inlet end to clear the factory catalyser). Can't have too much silencing these days - unfortunately. I have a new long-body SDCP fitted recently by BoT and hope to have some feedback on that shortly.

 

Summary for MP62 SC'd cars:  

You need a Re-Packable 8"dia silencer with a noise-cancelling chamber.

For best power, you need the full 2.5" bore.

You need an additional silencer for the tight circuits like Bedford/Goodwood/Brands.

NO TRD!!

 

 

[Bibs]

Good post Jim, thanks. The mics at Brands at just before Druids where you're full chat up the hill and at the end of Clearways where you're flat out onto the Brabham Straight. 

[2bular Exhausts]

Cheers Andy!  If a circuit has problems with its neighbours and NOISE being one of them, it's logical to position the mics at those places. Very sad but they have to look after their business. Just before Druids was my favourite viewing area - a lot of ambitious over-takes there!