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8 hours ago, Loquacious Lew said:

Sorry about that.  It sounded just like you and from here it's hard to see much difference.   Please forward my message to Barry if you'd be so kind as he said he won't be making any more contributions here.  I'll be just as pleased to be corrected about Mandela from him if he can find some evidence.    Now go back to your moaning chair, have a  seat by the fire and a nice hot cuppa.  With my ever so sincere apology  of course. 

Ha ha ha ha....😂

Bollocks to you too....

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Chaps - Agree to disagree and end this conversation please. Any further posts directed towards each other will be removed. Ta :)

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1 hour ago, Bibs said:

Chaps - Agree to disagree and end this conversation please. Any further posts directed towards each other will be removed. Ta :)

Spoil sport... 😂

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  • Gold FFM
27 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

However, do not lose sight of the fact that before his incarceration he was one of the founders of the paramilitary arm of the ANC (Spear of the Nation or Umkhonto we Sizwe). As such he was involved in the planning and execution of many acts that did result directly in the deaths of many people in South Africa including women and children. Whilst you can argue these were the casualties of war, or the resistance, or the fight for freedom, as opposed to people who were "murdered", the fact is that he did have "blood on his hands"

Many are very quick to brand Trump responsible for those whom died in the recent events at Capitol Hill. What’s the difference ??

Only here once

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4 hours ago, Sparky said:

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Totally calm ,law abiding, free speech loving, personal responsibility following conservative here fella. ✌️

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On 15/01/2021 at 06:19, Barrykearley said:

You need to consider the wider implications of Mandela and his family activities during what would be referred to as “the troubles” in the Northern Irish context. One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Martin Maginiss is a prime example and frankly a white Mandela. Just cos he won a peace prize really means nothing to the families of those affected by his actions.

The difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is purely defined by whoever ends up on the winning side, giving free reign to create any labels they wish and claim truth to it.

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I wouldn't mind being the flag supplier to Biden's inauguration! 

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So Lil Wayne the rapper was in jail for weapons charges. He has now been granted a presidential pardon.
I believe the number that the news just quoted was something like 137 or something like that.

As well as strategists from his previous teams. 
Just an abuse of power with no checks and balances. 

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All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

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Can the words POTUS and well-balanced currently be used in the same sentence?

All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad.Jeremy Clarkson on the Esprit.

Opinions are like armpits. Everyone has them, some just stink more than others.

For forum issues, please contact one of us Moderators.

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I am not a particular fan of Donald or any other past president but this morning whilst my wife was going on about the people pardoned in the last 24hrs can i googled the figures for Obama.  Interesting reading!

 

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Seems legit :blink:

Trump pardons Bannon and dozens more friends and allies

Donald Trump has granted a last-minute pardon to his former political adviser, Steve Bannon, as part of a flurry of clemency and commutations issued to allies of himself and his family during his final moments as president.

Also on Trump’s list were:

  • Elliott Broidy, a Republican fundraiser who pleaded guilty in a scheme to lobby the Trump administration to drop an investigation into the looting of a Malaysian wealth fund
  • Ken Kurson, a friend of the president’s son-in-law Jared Kushner who was charged last October with cyberstalking during a heated divorce.
  • Rappers Lil Wayne and Kodak Black, both convicted in Florida on weapons charges
  • Rick Renzi, an Arizona Republican who served three years for corruption, money laundering and other charges
  • Duke Cunningham of California, who was convicted of accepting $2.4m in bribes from defence contractors
  • Former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, who has served about seven years behind bars for a racketeering and bribery scheme
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It is interesting if you look back through our history of Presidents and see how many pardons and commutations given. As far as counts go, Trump is on the low side. The idea behind pardons was to correct for injustice when justice was served harshly or possibly that public sentiment has changed over the following years. Normally, the DOJ would make recommendation and the president could decide. Normally, the President would vet the pardons through the DOJ. As we all have seen, Trump does what Trump wants to do. Therefore, most of his pardons will be for favor and appear to be based in corruption. He has continued with his purversation and corruption of the institution. He has not been the worst at doing this but he is not far behind.

Later,
Eldon

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@EldonZ you say the number of pardons by Trump is on the low side. Is that compared to all presidents, or just recent ones?

@PhilW You make reference to Obama's figures which do make interesting reading.

 

I ask because the figures I see indicate Trump  has pardoned 237, with  Obama having pardoned 212, so not a lot of difference at that headline figure. If you dig a bit then other things come to mind. Obama's was over two terms, therefore Turmp's rate was more than double Obama's per year on average. Also, Obama had a massive number of requests (total of clemency & pardon requests was driven by a specific programme and was 3x that of his predecessor who pardoned a few less).

These figures are before the end of term pardons by Trump

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/11/24/so-far-trump-has-granted-clemency-less-frequently-than-any-president-in-modern-history/

 

It seems that in modern times, the use of Presidential Pardon is declining. I wonder why that is? Are convictions now deemed to be safer, with less reliance on witnesses etc and a growing use of scientific evidence such as blood, DNA matches etc? Perhaps it's just less popular politically.

 

What I didn't find was a split of what the original crime was for. 

 

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@andydclementsThe link you posted is the same one that I saw. It shows Trump being stingy with his pardons. If you believe all of what you here in the news, there was also considerable money being moved around to get a Trump pardon. Also, most Presidents issue the majority of their pardons in the last month of their term.

Later,
Eldon

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@EldonZ the thing with that comparison is that it's not full term for Trump, it shows pardons he issued up to 23rd November. He has given pardons to considerably more people after the period that the data includes, so bluntly, no the number of pardons issued by Trump is not on the low side.

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I'm currently laughing at the fact that his banks are now pulling the rug from beneath his empire, and I very much doubt that other big players will be keen to support in their place (even if they secretly support or were simply comfortable to provide the banking) they'll probably choose to avoid the bad publicity and loss of other business that would follow.

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