The Donald.

[basalte 108]

These are quite inflammatory remarks above and under the principle of equal and opposite reaction I will remark.

Don`t worry it`s just good-natured banter ! Well, a bit....

Oh well, thanks guys,  you`ve just saved me another 65p  on a copy of the Daily Mail. 

I will speak up below for those marchers here and yes, you can care about what`s happening in the wider world and care about what`s happening here-and drive a Lotus as well for that matter .I am marching to support the NHS on March 4th. I don`t care if anyone notices or whether it gets reported, it will have made me feel a bit better for getting off my behind and at worst, showing just myself that I have a conscience about our Country.  

A proven liar with the power to incinerate us all scares some people and his attitudes disgust others such as that well-known long haired layabout John Bercow MP.

Ban people from certain countries ? Well start with Saudi then, their citizens killed thousands on US soil. But no, guess what,  Saudis aren`t banned. Invent a non-existent terrorist incident as justification.

As someone might put it : JUST CRAZY.  

From reading the above posts how am I supposed to not reach a conclusion that British young people -this country`s future- are viewed with contempt ? How else can you read  "use `em for target practice...they should wash, why can`t they protest about this country`s problems  etc etc etc" .

A good example of protests you may approve of  ?  Tony Benn in his time, marching with the Police Federation against funding cuts. Corbyn speaking out for British army veterans disgustingly thrown onto the streets. That`s the trouble with principles. They`re more complicated than grubbing for cold hard cash.   

BTW,  you would certainly at least need a wash if you were an eight-year old shoved up a London chimney, and then left to die of lung disease  at 16 (if you hadn`t broken your spine by then ).  Who put an end to that ? People who protested.

Sure they are idealists like many usually middle-class kids of that age but many will grow out of it and grow up to be bank managers accountants etc . At that age of relative irresponsibility,  moral imperatives take precedence over the daily grind of meeting the bills, getting kids to school etc. And like it or not (and you clearly don`t), a mixture of commercial and moral imperatives are what have moved this country forward for ordinary people over the last 150 years. Ending slavery. Commercial and moral imperative. The plimsoll line preventing the greedy and dangerous overloading of ships. Obvious moral imperative. Trains for all. Commercial and moral imperative. Health Service for all. Moral imperative which makes commercial sense.

All those things had to be fought for over the strictly narrow commercial interests that are still seeking to drag us back to the days when major surgery equalled bankruptcy and people knew certain illnesses were a Death sentence . 

       

[clivef38 155]

Commercialism will always run the world. But charity begins at home. As and OAP since last year and paid my stamp since 1965 and my state pension is £659.00 a month. Try living on that.  A small private pension thats worth peanuts now due to +ankers . So no problem with proper refugees as long as they pay there way. So all they have to do is pay into the state the same as i have done over the years to get there pittance. I am still in full time employment at 67 luckily still fit and healthy. Body 67 mental age 7 as my wife recons .

Edited February 7, 2017 by clivef38
Forgot to add last bit.

[C8RKH 5,972]

Lucky you @clivef38.

I'm 50 and have paid for state pension for 34 years so far and am fully paid up to the maximum benefit level. Given that, I have been told I have another 19 years to keep on paying for it and at today's rates I will get £620 per month. What a damn fine deal that sounds to me and even worse than you.  My parents generation have had the best of it by a long way, my generation is starting to pay for it and my kids generation will definitely be paying for it.  

It's one of the reasons why i voted Brexit. I'm not dumb. I'm not a racist. I'm actually pro-immigration. My issue though is that the EU through either rationale thought led intention, or through the law of consequences, created a system whereby people from parts of the EU thought that it was OK for them to come to the UK and that they would be handed pots of gold, a house, and all sorts of other things that they would never get in their own country without, and here is the best bit, having to work for it!

Wow, great deal. Where do I go to sign up for that?

I am not against the free movement of people at all. I am wholeheartedly against the freedom to benefit surf!  I have friends from places like Poland. My nephew is married to a lovely girl from Lithuania. They work hard. they pay their taxes. They contribute fully both financially through their taxes and also culturally and through actively being involved in local clubs, organisations and activities. Why would we not want that?

As for Trump.  I think is heart is in the right place, it's just that his mouth is actually his arse and therefore he talks a lot of s....  at times. But the sentiment of much of it is good - Jobs for US citizens. Protect the borders and prevent terror. Stop the exodus of manufacturing to the east. Stop the US being the go-to wallet for Europe's safety and security (i.e. NATO and get the EU to cough up), Etc. What is wrong with that?

Instead of being outraged at WHAT he says, we need to think about the motivation behind it.  It's not bad. It's how he says it that is bad. A lot of the protests are a pile of s....  People reacting as they feel like they are hard done to before its been done to them, or, in many cases, in spite of it not ever going to be done to them.

Oh well, off for a bottle of French claret whilst we can still get it.  

Just an opinion.

 

 

[basalte 108]

Don`t worry mate we can afford it. Just needs some people up top to actually care for their compatriots  instead of just SAYING they care...

Funny, fill your house with emaciated cats and cereal packets and they will call you a hoarding nutter...fill your tax haven with billions of unused pounds and they call you a pillar of the economy !   

The biggest lie put about is that any immigrants / asylum seekers / refugees don`t want to pay their way. (139,000 UK refugees out of 65 million total pop. by the way).

All the evidence is that they DO want to pay their way but the media seize on all the "family of ten live in a mansion on benefits " stories as the rule not the exception. 

.........Unlike I dunno, Sir Philip Green ? He might have to sell a yacht to meet his pension obligations to his employees, yes he can very much help with their pensions, he (or his wife) has the money in the Bank to do it.  

As in, he could pay the thousands who worked for him and paid for his yacht.

As in, someone who has megabucks and directly supported a lot of people who are now on the dole because of his decisions.

Abdul down the kebab shop by way of contrast, is not in that position.   

.....from where I`m looking the have- nots  make their beds on the pavement as I walk past them in the City of London every day but the  have-yachts rule these days... from where I`m looking and I see nothing to make me look differently (as I know many here do, not trying to convert anyone but I do want to make people understand why I take the view that I do).  

A simple test-who wields more power and is a greater threat to our way of life ?  A Billionaire with a printing press and a hotline to Government Mr. Murdoch (that`s when he isn`t the Government) - or Abdul down the kebab shop ?  

[clivef38 155]

Old story. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Sorry to say that as a conservative. Too many people on a small island that thinks its still a major power.

[USAndretti42 305]

On 3 February 2017 at 08:24, ian29gte said:

I asked a friend of mine who lives in Boston how he saw the media, and its portrayal of Trump. He said the following:-

"I don’t know how the media treats Theresa May, but here in America 90% of the media is essentially part of the opposition party and they treat our president with total disrespect.  The majority of Americans don’t trust anything the mainstream media says because they have been proven to be liars to advance their agenda over and over again.  Trump has hundreds of thousands of followers on social media so he can pretty much communicate directly with the American people, which he does often, in order to avoid the media’s dishonest portrayal of his statements, positions and actions."

Ain't nothing sells like bad news?

That shows the success of Trump's strategy of undermining the press which should act to keep the govenment on the straight and narrow.  So his supporters believe whatever Trump says despite all the evidence the media prsent to the contrary and end up choosing lies over facts such as the inauguration attendance numbers.

[comem47 209]

Like a magician, Trump practices the art of misdirection. While you are busy watching his hand waving over here he is getting away with the other hand doing something over there by creating distractions. He's manged to make people forget that he never supplied his tax returns (like his predecessors) and he was supposed to sell off his businesses (so no conflict of interest) but instead put them into a trust that his sons control. He has lots of properties and investments overseas and can still make decisions that will benefit the family(in the end , him). Trump is all about Trump. To pervert JFK's speech, with Trump it's "ask not what I can do for my country, but rather, what my country can do for me". His cabinet is made up of billionaires, for the most part not qualified for the positions they hold. Together they will see that billionaires like themselves will benefit from his legislation. Talk about the fox in the hen-house !!!   

[Chillidoggy 4,269]

What qualifications must someone hold to be a member of US Governement Cabinet? If it's anything like the UK, the only qualification seems to be the ability to cock things up royally.

[lotus4s 24]

No Bob,

We haven't forgotten that he didn't supply his tax returns, we just don't care and it's not a requirement for the office. His company holdings both national and worldwide are widely known to the general public and you can be sure the IRS has been investigating him for decades and would have already castrated his golden jewels if they could have. 

It's also not a requirement that he sell off his businesses. How would it even be possible for him to sell off billions in assets in 60 days? He has divested himself and relinquished control which is the requirement. If you want to believe that he's taken on the enormous task of running for and being elected president solely for the purpose of personal financial gain, you are entitled to that misguided opinion. I do believe he loves America and his intentions are genuine. 

I don't necessarily agree with all his tactics and rhetoric, but do agree with his goals for the country and believe that he is bullheaded enough to accomplish them.

As for the people he's putting in charge, the politicians have proved they can't run the country so why not try something different and let's see what some of the greatest and highly successful business minds might be able to offer. Running a country is not dissimilar to running a large global corporation, the same principles apply. 

If it doesn't work, I'll be the first to agree but he deserves a chance. 

[Chillidoggy 4,269]

One for the US TLF members - my US friend I referred to earlier felt that the real prize for any president is the 'right' placement of Supreme Court judges.

Is that so?

[C8RKH 5,972]

I think he is good value for money. Cracking entertainment. I'm becoming an even fatter b;stard though as I now eagerly look forward to the nightly news stories - I get settled in front of the telly with a large bag of toffee popcorn and a bottle of claret and wait for the first stories on what he has said and done today. It's better than watching box sets of 24 and much more entertaining to boot.

Where's the 'corn gone...........

[silverfrost 1,387]

Trump is the Don 

[comem47 209]

Trump is an insecure narcissist. Who else is up at 3 am tweeting back when he reads something derogatory about himself?  His priorities are FU !!!

[Chillidoggy 4,269]

The majority of teenagers?

[pete 1,659]

On 07/02/2017 at 17:34, basalte said:

.  

A simple test-who wields more power and is a greater threat to our way of life ?  A Billionaire with a printing press and a hotline to Government Mr. Murdoch (that`s when he isn`t the Government) - or Abdul down the kebab shop ?  

well i see that as 2 questions with 2 different answers

[Mark Blanchard 1,599]

Bit like Ecclestone.

Wonder if he'll make the 4 year term, or someone will take him out?

[lotus4s 24]

18 hours ago, ian29gte said:

One for the US TLF members - my US friend I referred to earlier felt that the real prize for any president is the 'right' placement of Supreme Court judges.

Is that so?

Yes Ian, that is certainly a huge consideration. Since they are appointed for life, having a left or right leaning majority can shape the legal landscape on many controversial issues for a long time to come. Issues such as gun rights, abortion rights, moral/religious issues etc.

[Kimbers 1,711]

On 07/02/2017 at 14:39, basalte said:

I will speak up below for those marchers here and yes, you can care about what`s happening in the wider world and care about what`s happening here-and drive a Lotus as well for that matter .I am marching to support the NHS on March 4th. I don`t care if anyone notices or whether it gets reported, it will have made me feel a bit better for getting off my behind and at worst, showing just myself that I have a conscience about our Country.  

Ban people from certain countries ? Well start with Saudi then, their citizens killed thousands on US soil. But no, guess what,  Saudis aren`t banned. Invent a non-existent terrorist incident as justification.

From reading the above posts how am I supposed to not reach a conclusion that British young people -this country`s future- are viewed with contempt ? How else can you read  "use `em for target practice...they should wash, why can`t they protest about this country`s problems  etc etc etc" .

A good example of protests you may approve of  ?  Tony Benn in his time, marching with the Police Federation against funding cuts. Corbyn speaking out for British army veterans disgustingly thrown onto the streets. That`s the trouble with principles. They`re more complicated than grubbing for cold hard cash.   

 

Hi Dan

Firstly let me say I am really proud of our little community that includes people from a wide background, countries and Political views and manage to keep everything so (Mostly) polite and non confrontational. I really do think that Many Politicians could take a leaf out of our book and show how proper debate should happen! Well done everyone.

I would like to cover a couple of things from my opinion.

By All means speak up for the Marchers. Exercising their right to protest is a part of a democratic process. Something that many forget has happened and why Trump is in Office now. It's awesome that you are marching for the NHS in March, my family have done so in the past supporting those opposed to what is happening here in the UK. But that was my point! Many of the people "Outraged" at Trumps free democratic election don't seem to care about non democratic cuts and injustices in their own country. I find misplaces outrage almost as annoying as inactivity and many of those marching are doing so for the wrong reason and should look at themselves, what is happening here to and get off their arses and volunteer to help feed homeless people, put in 50 hours a month as a volunteer at their Hospital, volunteer to go sit with OAP's who are lonely and talk to them, Volunteer to help emergency services cope, Volunteer to do anything that helps your community and those in need. And Yes, I have do and have already done 25 hours in February.

Ban people from Certain countries. very poorly thought out and stops those most in need. Stop people with Criminal records, links to extremism and economic Migrants? Acceptable but you have to think out how to do it better!

Young People from UK, yes, young people are the future of the UK and I have 4 kids and a Grandaughter. 3 of the 4 are in work and one is studying so we have hopefully done a good job. However all I hear from others is how the world owes them a living "Why is it so difficult to live on my wage of £7.50 an hour" I read the other day on FB. When I suggested a second Job (And I have had 2 jobs since I was 26 and had responsibilities like rent/mortgage etc) I was met with amazement and redicule "How can I go out and get pissed if I am working all the time?" Surely, if you are short of money you work harder, you don't demand someone gives you money or changes the law to make sure you are paid £10 an hour. Something else that incensed me was when so many youth organisations and activists reacted at Brexit by blaming older people "You've had your fun now are trying to stop us", "We are the future and you are damaging ours". Whatever the argument many forgot that they wouldn't have a future without the older generation. And the future they have has been built up by the work ethic of previous and my generations. Many have forgotten that respect is earned and our generations have earnt it. Theirs needs to by hard work, community spirit and helping others. this is a generalisation of course and many young people (like my kids) work hard and are looking to the future. They all voted in the Referendum (except one who didn't know how to vote so abstained) and voted for and against depending on their views. None complained afterwards and saw it as a free and fair democratic vote. Not a reason to once again throw their toys out of the pram because they didn't get their own way!

Lastly good examples of Marching, recently Marches seem to be over things like Trump or Brexit, A free and Democratic vote has seen a result some people don't like so they March. My point was Whatever happened to Marching to protest things you can effect like the NHS, Cuts in pensions etc. Many of the people seen on the Trump March have never marched before and are doing so this time because of what they see as an injustice in a country they aren't involved in, aren't a part of, can't vote in and don't live in, voting in a President they don't agree with. Look closer at home is my advice!

As for Corbyn and the armed services. this is a man who refused to sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain memorial service, would lay off virtually all our armed services, get rid of Trident and leave us unprotected (not to mention the tens of thousands who rely on it for their jobs). Yeah, he's great with them! 

 

[basalte 108]

Hi Kimbers,

You raise many valid points and I hope that I raised all mine in a spirit of good natured debate with hopefully a few laughs , that is my intention.  

I would not wish to couch any of my opinions in the confrontational terms which I incidentally found to be the usual ones that you find in most of our red-top newspapers.

- I start from the view that most of those popular newspapers do not give us news, they give the opinions of their extremely rich and powerful owners-the Establishment Elite, if you will. The BBC hates the idea of an unstable society so I have found myself completely agreeing with those who I normally do disagree with. 

I prefer any of my Elites to have an engine and 4 wheels. (Groan)

If that makes me a bleeding-heart liberal lefty, so be it. As Elvis Costello sang, "What`s so funny `bout peace and love and understanding?"

We all contribute to our community in different ways and I have always thought your contributions in particular to be real practical ones and not only that, better than mine have been over the years !

However the right to protest is a pillar of Democracy as is the respect for the result of a vote. I already mentioned that I expected many of those anti-Trump marchers would be "middle-class idealists" and it looks like we agree on that one. To be the (red) devil`s advocate most young people can communicate with others now at the touch of a button and news spreads round the Western world like wildfire so whenever something outrageous gets said by someone (like Mr. Trump) they do get annoyed about it. Those are  basic themes that contribute to a sense of injustice -fundamentally being seen as a "piece of ass" as a woman or singled out for comment  or abuse  because of skin colour or faith, is bound to personally rankle with them.  When that same person can potentially get us all blown up its another source of concern. Let alone the whole climate change thing !    

I suppose in a nutshell I think it`s better that they get hot under the collar about things that imply they`re not fully human than (in my view) the right to have a bunch of dogs tear live foxes apart (not trying to start another thread). The NHS is close to home it affects us all (even if we avoid the taxes needed to pay for it) and it definitely needs our support right now.

(Incidentally I don`t agree that Corbyn would lay off our armed services-I believe his policy is to concentrate on targeted conventional defences. His personal view which I share is that Trident is useless-but that is not his party`s policy which is to keep it.

...and the trouble is, if he did sing "God Save the Queen" when everyone knows he`s a Republican, he`d get slagged off for that as well ! ) 

[C8RKH 5,972]

Our conventional forces will do just fine standing to attention in the face of nuclear and chemical weapons from our foes.  I always though Corbyn was a master strategist!

Obviously, that's sensational, but it makes a point.  I think sometimes people forget that stuff like Trident is first, foremost, and lastly a deterrent.  It is not designed to be used as, or intended to be used as, a first strike weapon.  It is there to warn the boy with the big stick that whilst he might well win the fight, he'll get a bloody nose and a few broken bones as a result of the fight.

We live in a dangerous and uncertain world and sometimes I think the 80 years or so of peace we have had in Europe has gone some way to lull us into a false sense of security.  

I like some of what Trump does. I bloody well hate what he says and how he says it. But as I've said before, dig behind and the core meaning is sound.

I', sick of people in the UK getting all outraged and having their "petty marches" - I mean, we even had them over here around "Black Lives Matter" when that movement was specifically around the obscene and senseless killing of black Americans by mostly white POLICE officers.  It had very little to do with anything that was happening in the UK. 

We have enough issues to deal with here, without getting all indignant and righteous about what happens elsewhere. Maybe we should put our efforts in to fixing our own problems before we worry about everyone else's.  Just a thought.

[Chillidoggy 4,269]

42 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Our conventional forces will do just fine standing to attention in the face of nuclear and chemical weapons from our foes.  I always though Corbyn was a master strategist!

Obviously, that's sensational, but it makes a point.  I think sometimes people forget that stuff like Trident is first, foremost, and lastly a deterrent.  It is not designed to be used as, or intended to be used as, a first strike weapon.  It is there to warn the boy with the big stick that whilst he might well win the fight, he'll get a bloody nose and a few broken bones as a result of the fight.

We live in a dangerous and uncertain world and sometimes I think the 80 years or so of peace we have had in Europe has gone some way to lull us into a false sense of security.  

I like some of what Trump does. I bloody well hate what he says and how he says it. But as I've said before, dig behind and the core meaning is sound.

I', sick of people in the UK getting all outraged and having their "petty marches" - I mean, we even had them over here around "Black Lives Matter" when that movement was specifically around the obscene and senseless killing of black Americans by mostly white POLICE officers.  It had very little to do with anything that was happening in the UK. 

We have enough issues to deal with here, without getting all indignant and righteous about what happens elsewhere. Maybe we should put our efforts in to fixing our own problems before we worry about everyone else's.  Just a thought.

 

Have another glass of merlot, for God's sake.

[C8RKH 5,972]

Actually @ian29gte how did you guess I was back on the train heading North!  Another bloody 6.5 hour train trip but the wine is flowing, even in std class....

[Barrykearley 6,549]

Have you noticed how great the trains are with wifi and no conductor so you can freeload into first class 

[Chillidoggy 4,269]

12 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Actually @ian29gte how did you guess I was back on the train heading North!  Another bloody 6.5 hour train trip but the wine is flowing, even in std class....

 

Champagne socialist.

[C8RKH 5,972]

Haha. More like a bourgeois suffering the common folk  to show what a nice adventurous person I am and to give me stories to tell over my dinner parties and the foie gras and Bolly about what a hideous and traumatic experience it was.

Frightful experience. Hence the need for the wine. Cooking sherry really, but then, what did one expect.