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These are quite inflammatory remarks above and under the principle of equal and opposite reaction I will remark.

Don`t worry it`s just good-natured banter ! Well, a bit....

Oh well, thanks guys,  you`ve just saved me another 65p  on a copy of the Daily Mail. 

I will speak up below for those marchers here and yes, you can care about what`s happening in the wider world and care about what`s happening here-and drive a Lotus as well for that matter .I am marching to support the NHS on March 4th. I don`t care if anyone notices or whether it gets reported, it will have made me feel a bit better for getting off my behind and at worst, showing just myself that I have a conscience about our Country.  

A proven liar with the power to incinerate us all scares some people and his attitudes disgust others such as that well-known long haired layabout John Bercow MP.

Ban people from certain countries ? Well start with Saudi then, their citizens killed thousands on US soil. But no, guess what,  Saudis aren`t banned. Invent a non-existent terrorist incident as justification.

As someone might put it : JUST CRAZY.  

From reading the above posts how am I supposed to not reach a conclusion that British young people -this country`s future- are viewed with contempt ? How else can you read  "use `em for target practice...they should wash, why can`t they protest about this country`s problems  etc etc etc" .

A good example of protests you may approve of  ?  Tony Benn in his time, marching with the Police Federation against funding cuts. Corbyn speaking out for British army veterans disgustingly thrown onto the streets. That`s the trouble with principles. They`re more complicated than grubbing for cold hard cash.   

BTW,  you would certainly at least need a wash if you were an eight-year old shoved up a London chimney, and then left to die of lung disease  at 16 (if you hadn`t broken your spine by then ).  Who put an end to that ? People who protested.

Sure they are idealists like many usually middle-class kids of that age but many will grow out of it and grow up to be bank managers accountants etc . At that age of relative irresponsibility,  moral imperatives take precedence over the daily grind of meeting the bills, getting kids to school etc. And like it or not (and you clearly don`t), a mixture of commercial and moral imperatives are what have moved this country forward for ordinary people over the last 150 years. Ending slavery. Commercial and moral imperative. The plimsoll line preventing the greedy and dangerous overloading of ships. Obvious moral imperative. Trains for all. Commercial and moral imperative. Health Service for all. Moral imperative which makes commercial sense.

All those things had to be fought for over the strictly narrow commercial interests that are still seeking to drag us back to the days when major surgery equalled bankruptcy and people knew certain illnesses were a Death sentence . 

       

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As one of the Americans who converses here, let me get this out of the way.  Whew.   YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY.       There are  many things to say and consider.  We won a big one.  It's scar

But at least he didn't start a war, legal or otherwise like the previous Presidential trend before him. Every cloud and all that. I'm no Trump fan (to be honest reasonably ambivalent as it's your

Congratulations USA 

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Commercialism will always run the world. But charity begins at home. As and OAP since last year and paid my stamp since 1965 and my state pension is £659.00 a month. Try living on that.  A small private pension thats worth peanuts now due to +ankers . So no problem with proper refugees as long as they pay there way. So all they have to do is pay into the state the same as i have done over the years to get there pittance. I am still in full time employment at 67 luckily still fit and healthy. Body 67 mental age 7 as my wife recons .

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Old story. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Sorry to say that as a conservative. Too many people on a small island that thinks its still a major power.

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On 3 February 2017 at 08:24, ian29gte said:

I asked a friend of mine who lives in Boston how he saw the media, and its portrayal of Trump. He said the following:-

"I don’t know how the media treats Theresa May, but here in America 90% of the media is essentially part of the opposition party and they treat our president with total disrespect.  The majority of Americans don’t trust anything the mainstream media says because they have been proven to be liars to advance their agenda over and over again.  Trump has hundreds of thousands of followers on social media so he can pretty much communicate directly with the American people, which he does often, in order to avoid the media’s dishonest portrayal of his statements, positions and actions."

Ain't nothing sells like bad news?

That shows the success of Trump's strategy of undermining the press which should act to keep the govenment on the straight and narrow.  So his supporters believe whatever Trump says despite all the evidence the media prsent to the contrary and end up choosing lies over facts such as the inauguration attendance numbers.

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Like a magician, Trump practices the art of misdirection. While you are busy watching his hand waving over here he is getting away with the other hand doing something over there by creating distractions. He's manged to make people forget that he never supplied his tax returns (like his predecessors) and he was supposed to sell off his businesses (so no conflict of interest) but instead put them into a trust that his sons control. He has lots of properties and investments overseas and can still make decisions that will benefit the family(in the end , him). Trump is all about Trump. To pervert JFK's speech, with Trump it's "ask not what I can do for my country, but rather, what my country can do for me". His cabinet is made up of billionaires, for the most part not qualified for the positions they hold. Together they will see that billionaires like themselves will benefit from his legislation. Talk about the fox in the hen-house !!!   :(

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Trump is an insecure narcissist. Who else is up at 3 am tweeting back when he reads something derogatory about himself?  His priorities are FU !!!

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On 07/02/2017 at 17:34, basalte said:

.  

A simple test-who wields more power and is a greater threat to our way of life ?  A Billionaire with a printing press and a hotline to Government Mr. Murdoch (that`s when he isn`t the Government) - or Abdul down the kebab shop ?  

well i see that as 2 questions with 2 different answers

hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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18 hours ago, ian29gte said:

One for the US TLF members - my US friend I referred to earlier felt that the real prize for any president is the 'right' placement of Supreme Court judges.

Is that so?

Yes Ian, that is certainly a huge consideration. Since they are appointed for life, having a left or right leaning majority can shape the legal landscape on many controversial issues for a long time to come. Issues such as gun rights, abortion rights, moral/religious issues etc.

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On 07/02/2017 at 14:39, basalte said:

I will speak up below for those marchers here and yes, you can care about what`s happening in the wider world and care about what`s happening here-and drive a Lotus as well for that matter .I am marching to support the NHS on March 4th. I don`t care if anyone notices or whether it gets reported, it will have made me feel a bit better for getting off my behind and at worst, showing just myself that I have a conscience about our Country.  

Ban people from certain countries ? Well start with Saudi then, their citizens killed thousands on US soil. But no, guess what,  Saudis aren`t banned. Invent a non-existent terrorist incident as justification.

From reading the above posts how am I supposed to not reach a conclusion that British young people -this country`s future- are viewed with contempt ? How else can you read  "use `em for target practice...they should wash, why can`t they protest about this country`s problems  etc etc etc" .

A good example of protests you may approve of  ?  Tony Benn in his time, marching with the Police Federation against funding cuts. Corbyn speaking out for British army veterans disgustingly thrown onto the streets. That`s the trouble with principles. They`re more complicated than grubbing for cold hard cash.   

 

Hi Dan

Firstly let me say I am really proud of our little community that includes people from a wide background, countries and Political views and manage to keep everything so (Mostly) polite and non confrontational. I really do think that Many Politicians could take a leaf out of our book and show how proper debate should happen! Well done everyone.

I would like to cover a couple of things from my opinion.

By All means speak up for the Marchers. Exercising their right to protest is a part of a democratic process. Something that many forget has happened and why Trump is in Office now. It's awesome that you are marching for the NHS in March, my family have done so in the past supporting those opposed to what is happening here in the UK. But that was my point! Many of the people "Outraged" at Trumps free democratic election don't seem to care about non democratic cuts and injustices in their own country. I find misplaces outrage almost as annoying as inactivity and many of those marching are doing so for the wrong reason and should look at themselves, what is happening here to and get off their arses and volunteer to help feed homeless people, put in 50 hours a month as a volunteer at their Hospital, volunteer to go sit with OAP's who are lonely and talk to them, Volunteer to help emergency services cope, Volunteer to do anything that helps your community and those in need. And Yes, I have do and have already done 25 hours in February.

Ban people from Certain countries. very poorly thought out and stops those most in need. Stop people with Criminal records, links to extremism and economic Migrants? Acceptable but you have to think out how to do it better!

Young People from UK, yes, young people are the future of the UK and I have 4 kids and a Grandaughter. 3 of the 4 are in work and one is studying so we have hopefully done a good job. However all I hear from others is how the world owes them a living "Why is it so difficult to live on my wage of £7.50 an hour" I read the other day on FB. When I suggested a second Job (And I have had 2 jobs since I was 26 and had responsibilities like rent/mortgage etc) I was met with amazement and redicule "How can I go out and get pissed if I am working all the time?" Surely, if you are short of money you work harder, you don't demand someone gives you money or changes the law to make sure you are paid £10 an hour. Something else that incensed me was when so many youth organisations and activists reacted at Brexit by blaming older people "You've had your fun now are trying to stop us", "We are the future and you are damaging ours". Whatever the argument many forgot that they wouldn't have a future without the older generation. And the future they have has been built up by the work ethic of previous and my generations. Many have forgotten that respect is earned and our generations have earnt it. Theirs needs to by hard work, community spirit and helping others. this is a generalisation of course and many young people (like my kids) work hard and are looking to the future. They all voted in the Referendum (except one who didn't know how to vote so abstained) and voted for and against depending on their views. None complained afterwards and saw it as a free and fair democratic vote. Not a reason to once again throw their toys out of the pram because they didn't get their own way!

Lastly good examples of Marching, recently Marches seem to be over things like Trump or Brexit, A free and Democratic vote has seen a result some people don't like so they March. My point was Whatever happened to Marching to protest things you can effect like the NHS, Cuts in pensions etc. Many of the people seen on the Trump March have never marched before and are doing so this time because of what they see as an injustice in a country they aren't involved in, aren't a part of, can't vote in and don't live in, voting in a President they don't agree with. Look closer at home is my advice!

As for Corbyn and the armed services. this is a man who refused to sing the national anthem at the Battle of Britain memorial service, would lay off virtually all our armed services, get rid of Trident and leave us unprotected (not to mention the tens of thousands who rely on it for their jobs). Yeah, he's great with them! 

 

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Hi Kimbers,

You raise many valid points and I hope that I raised all mine in a spirit of good natured debate with hopefully a few laughs , that is my intention.  

I would not wish to couch any of my opinions in the confrontational terms which I incidentally found to be the usual ones that you find in most of our red-top newspapers.

- I start from the view that most of those popular newspapers do not give us news, they give the opinions of their extremely rich and powerful owners-the Establishment Elite, if you will. The BBC hates the idea of an unstable society so I have found myself completely agreeing with those who I normally do disagree with. 

I prefer any of my Elites to have an engine and 4 wheels. (Groan)

If that makes me a bleeding-heart liberal lefty, so be it. As Elvis Costello sang, "What`s so funny `bout peace and love and understanding?"

We all contribute to our community in different ways and I have always thought your contributions in particular to be real practical ones and not only that, better than mine have been over the years !

However the right to protest is a pillar of Democracy as is the respect for the result of a vote. I already mentioned that I expected many of those anti-Trump marchers would be "middle-class idealists" and it looks like we agree on that one. To be the (red) devil`s advocate most young people can communicate with others now at the touch of a button and news spreads round the Western world like wildfire so whenever something outrageous gets said by someone (like Mr. Trump) they do get annoyed about it. Those are  basic themes that contribute to a sense of injustice -fundamentally being seen as a "piece of ass" as a woman or singled out for comment  or abuse  because of skin colour or faith, is bound to personally rankle with them.  When that same person can potentially get us all blown up its another source of concern. Let alone the whole climate change thing !    

I suppose in a nutshell I think it`s better that they get hot under the collar about things that imply they`re not fully human than (in my view) the right to have a bunch of dogs tear live foxes apart (not trying to start another thread). The NHS is close to home it affects us all (even if we avoid the taxes needed to pay for it) and it definitely needs our support right now.

(Incidentally I don`t agree that Corbyn would lay off our armed services-I believe his policy is to concentrate on targeted conventional defences. His personal view which I share is that Trident is useless-but that is not his party`s policy which is to keep it.

...and the trouble is, if he did sing "God Save the Queen" when everyone knows he`s a Republican, he`d get slagged off for that as well ! ) 

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Our conventional forces will do just fine standing to attention in the face of nuclear and chemical weapons from our foes.  I always though Corbyn was a master strategist!

Obviously, that's sensational, but it makes a point.  I think sometimes people forget that stuff like Trident is first, foremost, and lastly a deterrent.  It is not designed to be used as, or intended to be used as, a first strike weapon.  It is there to warn the boy with the big stick that whilst he might well win the fight, he'll get a bloody nose and a few broken bones as a result of the fight.

We live in a dangerous and uncertain world and sometimes I think the 80 years or so of peace we have had in Europe has gone some way to lull us into a false sense of security.  

I like some of what Trump does. I bloody well hate what he says and how he says it. But as I've said before, dig behind and the core meaning is sound.

I', sick of people in the UK getting all outraged and having their "petty marches" - I mean, we even had them over here around "Black Lives Matter" when that movement was specifically around the obscene and senseless killing of black Americans by mostly white POLICE officers.  It had very little to do with anything that was happening in the UK. 

We have enough issues to deal with here, without getting all indignant and righteous about what happens elsewhere. Maybe we should put our efforts in to fixing our own problems before we worry about everyone else's.  Just a thought.

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42 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Our conventional forces will do just fine standing to attention in the face of nuclear and chemical weapons from our foes.  I always though Corbyn was a master strategist!

Obviously, that's sensational, but it makes a point.  I think sometimes people forget that stuff like Trident is first, foremost, and lastly a deterrent.  It is not designed to be used as, or intended to be used as, a first strike weapon.  It is there to warn the boy with the big stick that whilst he might well win the fight, he'll get a bloody nose and a few broken bones as a result of the fight.

We live in a dangerous and uncertain world and sometimes I think the 80 years or so of peace we have had in Europe has gone some way to lull us into a false sense of security.  

I like some of what Trump does. I bloody well hate what he says and how he says it. But as I've said before, dig behind and the core meaning is sound.

I', sick of people in the UK getting all outraged and having their "petty marches" - I mean, we even had them over here around "Black Lives Matter" when that movement was specifically around the obscene and senseless killing of black Americans by mostly white POLICE officers.  It had very little to do with anything that was happening in the UK. 

We have enough issues to deal with here, without getting all indignant and righteous about what happens elsewhere. Maybe we should put our efforts in to fixing our own problems before we worry about everyone else's.  Just a thought.

 

Have another glass of merlot, for God's sake.

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Actually @ian29gte how did you guess I was back on the train heading North!  Another bloody 6.5 hour train trip but the wine is flowing, even in std class....

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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Have you noticed how great the trains are with wifi and no conductor so you can freeload into first class :lol:

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Only here once

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Haha. More like a bourgeois suffering the common folk  to show what a nice adventurous person I am and to give me stories to tell over my dinner parties and the foie gras and Bolly about what a hideous and traumatic experience it was.

Frightful experience. Hence the need for the wine. Cooking sherry really, but then, what did one expect. :wine:

Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!    

The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts!   

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