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1 hour ago, EldonZ said:

Impeachment has no teeth, it's like being indited for a crime and a trial is held. Only if the Senate convicts him are there any repercussions. If he is convicted in the Senate then he will not be able to hold any federal elected government office. I'm not sure about state offices.

The big debate is if he self pardons himself, it sets up the legal challenge if a self-pardon is constitutionally legal. Also, if a person that is pardoned excepts the pardon, they are admitting guilt. This also requires that the person then answer all questions asked surrounding the pardon. If they do not, they are then guilty, again, of obstruction.

Later,
Eldon

Eldon's post gets it  correctly.  Neal's question is answered in Eldon's post, but to address it clearly, the law regarding the value of presidential self pardons  is untested or at least unclear as to what protection Trump obtains  if he pardons himself.  So that remains to be seen. As mentioned, anyone receiving a pardon is obliged to answer all questions pertaining to the issues and connected issues without the protection of the fifth amendment.  The penalties for lying in this way are severe.  However, if someone other than the president himself is pardoned for a specific crime, it really doesn't matter what corroborating evidence is uncovered.  A presidential pardon is essentially absolute.   One presumes the same would hold true if his self pardon was judged as legally binding.  He would escape the consequences regardless of any crime regardless of its severity.  He would still be liable for crimes committed before he was president, and he would still be open to actions against him by the states.  But he would be immune from prosecution by Federal authorities.  Barr's justice department (Well, Trump's actually) interpreted the law to be that Trump could not be charged in court while he was still president. This meant that he was immune from the usual liabilities that any citizen would face during his term as president.  That time is soon to pass,  and he becomes liable for all of it.  They say he's considering the broadest range of pardons ever to include family and friends, and himself. This huge blanket of pardons, should it be attempted by Trump will surely be tested in court but as mentioned, where it ends is unclear.  However, the presidential power to pardon is extremely broad, almost unlimited really, so how it will all turn out is an interesting question. 

 

 

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As one of the Americans who converses here, let me get this out of the way.  Whew.   YAY YAY YAY YAY YAY.       There are  many things to say and consider.  We won a big one.  It's scar

But at least he didn't start a war, legal or otherwise like the previous Presidential trend before him. Every cloud and all that. I'm no Trump fan (to be honest reasonably ambivalent as it's your

Congratulations USA 

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22 minutes ago, Loquacious Lew said:

 A presidential pardon is essentially absolute.

How did this come about? What's the reasoning behind letting criminals off scot free?

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We do it here in the UK, I'm sure other countries do as well. Sometimes if the law of the time was massively out of step with current views, or if the person does something that might have got a royal recognition but wouldn't because of the person's conviction (now wondering about the guy who tackled the London Bridge terrorists, why he's not been pardoned).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_prerogative_of_mercy

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Funny how the old tax evasion thing seems to have gone quiet. How a self-proclaimed patriot and his extended family can enjoy living a life of utter luxury in a country and barely contribute a bean to its running and defence is beyond me.

What do the US military and security forces have to say about his personal lack of financial support?

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@LotusLeftLotusRightThe tax evasion has not gone away. That is a problem in the state of NY which presidential will not cover since it is a state and not a federal investigation.

The DOJ and others are waiting until Trump is out of office because you cannot bring a sitting president up on criminal charges. Once he is out of office, he is fair game which is why he wants to pardon himself which would be for things that he has done, not things he hasn't done, yet.

The next couple of years are still going to be interesting. McConnell wants him found guilty in the Senate because he believes it will be easier to remove him from the GOP. It has been said that Trump may be found liable for the Capitol riot via civil law suits. There is still going to be the problem of the millions that still believes that he is the Best President ever.

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Eldon

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In that case, a darn good reason want him out after one term, statue of limitation seems to be 5 years for tax evasion. If he couldn't be prosecuted whilst in office, the second term would have taken him past that limit.

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1 hour ago, EldonZ said:

The tax evasion has not gone away. That is a problem in the state of NY

Is this not the reason he wants to move to Florida?

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33 minutes ago, Bibs said:

Is this not the reason he wants to move to Florida?

He established Florida as his residence awhile ago. He still has interests in NY and is required to pay state taxes there. His main two headaches is that he reported to the government one statement of property worth and reported a different statement to the banks. His second headache is that we called some land around one of his property such that it gave him a $19M tax credit. That credit is in question if it was actually valid.

The reason all of this has dragged out is that he has been using his Presidential title as an excuse to not release his tax returns even though the courts told him that that is bogus.

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Eldon

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People saying what’s the point of impeachment when he is out of office in a weeks time the answer as to be it’s never to late to do the right thing.

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1 hour ago, scotty435 said:

People saying what’s the point of impeachment when he is out of office in a weeks time the answer as to be it’s never to late to do the right thing.

One thing that most do not understand correctly, impeachment is not the end of the process but the beginning. We have had other Presidents impeached but not found guilty by the Senate. Either the President resigned or the Senate did not convict.

As long as the impeachment is approved by the House before the President leave office, he can still be convicted after his term is up. He cannot be removed from office but he can be stopped from running or holding another federally elected position.

Later,
Eldon

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There is no left in American Politics... 😳

And Trumps the clown? 
😂😂😂😂😂😂

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18 hours ago, Loquacious Lew said:

Neal's question is answered in Eldon's post, but to address it clearly, the law regarding the value of presidential self pardons  is untested or at least unclear as to what protection Trump obtains  if he pardons himself.

I thought the 'buck' of responsibility stops with the president, if it's possible to pardon yourself then where does that responsibility go?  It can't be God!

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https://fb.watch/2-ZvrW7g3P/
 

my last contribution to this thread. 
 

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21 hours ago, 100th_Idiot said:

By the time this gets to the Senate it will be controlled by the Democrats so the chances of succesful impeachment rise.

That's true in that the Senate Majority Leader (Chuck Schumer) will be in charge of the procedures but unfortunately, the Senate requires a 2/3 vote to convict.  A simple majority won't do.  If that were the case (simple majority) there would be no question that he would be convicted.  Since the Senate is split 50/50,  the Republican party will be required to provide 17 votes to convict.  Are there 17 honest Republicans in the Senate who will openly consider the evidence and actions that lead up to the riots and sedition in Washington?  That's far from clear.   

 

Hey plumber, ever find any proof of Mandela being a murderer?  I remain open to such if you have it.  If you don't, your last contribution to this thread is received  as good news and an indication that Mandela isn't the monster you have made him out to be.  

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20 hours ago, EldonZ said:

One thing that most do not understand correctly, impeachment is not the end of the process but the beginning. We have had other Presidents impeached but not found guilty by the Senate. Either the President resigned or the Senate did not convict.

As long as the impeachment is approved by the House before the President leave office, he can still be convicted after his term is up. He cannot be removed from office but he can be stopped from running or holding another federally elected position.

Later,
Eldon

 

I believe he can be kept from office if he is convicted in the Senate, where the trial is actually heard.  The impeachment (as I understand it) is the formal declaration and levying of the charges.  I'm unclear if that alone keeps him from running for office in the future.  Open to correction as always, of course.  

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16 minutes ago, Loquacious Lew said:

I believe he can be kept from office if he is convicted in the Senate, where the trial is actually heard.  The impeachment (as I understand it) is the formal declaration and levying of the charges.  I'm unclear if that alone keeps him from running for office in the future.  Open to correction as always, of course.  

From what I've heard, via the news, is that the conviction alone does not stop him from holding office. The senate will then have to have another vote that requires a simple majority that would prevent him from holding a federal office again.

Later,
Eldon

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I'd like to see that not only can he not run again (stirring up more social unrest) ,but he is stripped of his post-president benefits (like secret service protection) That would happen with a conviction.

be gone satan !!!!

 

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1 hour ago, Loquacious Lew said:

That's true in that the Senate Majority Leader (Chuck Schumer) will be in charge of the procedures but unfortunately, the Senate requires a 2/3 vote to convict.  A simple majority won't do.  If that were the case (simple majority) there would be no question that he would be convicted.  Since the Senate is split 50/50,  the Republican party will be required to provide 17 votes to convict.  Are there 17 honest Republicans in the Senate who will openly consider the evidence and actions that lead up to the riots and sedition in Washington?  That's far from clear.   

 

Hey plumber, ever find any proof of Mandela being a murderer?  I remain open to such if you have it.  If you don't, your last contribution to this thread is received  as good news and an indication that Mandela isn't the monster you have made him out to be.  

Yes. I think a two thirds majority is unlikley. Some of the GOP won't want to close off the option and most of it won't want to be the party of the first convicted president.

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On 13/01/2021 at 13:13, andydclements said:

Surely that's more of an immunity from prosecution

You can get a letter from Labour and Tony Blair for that. Not sure the cost these days but think fairly easy to get as a lot of them were just being thrown around seemingly willy-nilly not that long ago.

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This could be fun. Who would represent Trump if he's sued by his personal legal counsel? (picked up the story from Google news, just happened to be by the Guardian)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/14/trump-refusing-to-pay-rudy-giuliani-legal-fees-after-falling-out

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