Perfect engine for an Evora GTE?

[The Pits]

http://www.motorsportauctions.com/index.php?a=ap&addon=storefront&page=home&store=710&listing=35480

I'd be very tempted to slip this into my GTE if I had one....

[Bravo73]

Weren't these the engines that were meant to be fitted to the original GTEs?

But they kept failing (or couldn't meet emissions targets) so they were shelved. 

[Trevsked]

Wonder what the actual HP of these is.

 

Trevor.

[The Pits]

I know that Swindon are highly regarded race engine builders. Their 385-400 would be worth quite a big number on komotec's dyno I suspect  

[Trevsked]

Ooooh I like it :-) I know the description said 385-400 but the paperwork on the engine says 420.

 

Trevor.

[Bibs]

Is one figure flywheel and the other at the hubs?

[The Pits]

They also do a 500bhp version but that's a 3.8 litre and much more expensive.

I actually spoke to Swindon about their engines a while ago. They use a Cosworth SQ6 ECU for this version, so that's the best choice for the missing ecu. The crankshaft, connecting rods and pistons are all billet machined and the capacity is 3.75 litre.

The cost of the 500bhp engine is £18k and that's after a donor engine has been supplied. They also wanted orders for 4 engines to start production (ultimate group buy!)  So £4500 for a Swindon V6 from Lotus is a serious bargain.

Swindon also developed a 600hp twin turbo version for GT racing but this is not compatible with transversal installation.

[PaulCP]

Don't think I would want to shell out £5400 (incl vat) for an engine sold without any warranty, new or not 

[JAWS]

10 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

Weren't these the engines that were meant to be fitted to the original GTEs?

But they kept failing (or couldn't meet emissions targets) so they were shelved. 

Yep, this is probably one of those engines pulled out of a GTE when they were converted to standard and sold as GT350's

[TheKevlarKid]

I'm sure if you were to offer 5k inc the vat they'd sell you one. And for 5k it would be an absolute bargain, even with no warranty!

Price up a new standard toyota v6 engine, loom and a supercharger kit and I bet 5k wouldn't buy you all the bits you'd require just for the supercharger installation. 

Not all the gte's had swindon engines, some of them had the lotus developed 400 engine in the back. I'm pretty sure the engines being offered here are NOT the ones they pulled out of the reworked cars. They were full assemblies and they wouldn't have gone to all the trouble of pulling all the other ancillaries off them to sell them like they are now. I do know they had stock of crated Swindon engines ready in the wings for when the production kicked off back in the day (remember they had planned on building over 100 of them to start with). These engines look to be the stock of the new crated engine assemblies they are now selling off. 

They would be perfect for many kit car installations, im immediately think Stratos replica, I know one of the kits that is available already caters for the toyota v6 engine and transmission. Hmmmm stratos with a reliable 400hp, hmmmm.

This plot is from an evora gte with a swindon engine and a lotus ecu controlling it. With a standalone ecu it willl easily do over 400. 

 

 

[domguy]

The description does sound like a swindon GTE engine opposed to the Lotus developed GTE engine.  The arrows conrods being the giveaway.  The claimed 440HP of the GTE was over optimistic and actually came in closer to 380 which also fits in with the quoted numbers.  If it was pulled from one of the 20 cars then I'm sure the engine number can be matched against Lotus's records.  

[The Pits]

Surely it's worth someone's while putting this engine in a GTE? If you haven't already KK (Customer: Gavin!) . Can only add to the car's value to have an original spec GTE engine, supplied by Lotus and fitted by Lotus Motorsport. I know I'd pay more for a car in that spec.

It states in the ad that these engines are new and unused.

[domguy]

Thing is it seems a major faff and expense for an uplift of only 35HP.  Unless these swindon engines are easy to tune beyond the 385HP (because they are stronger than the standard V6 lump for example) then it doesn't seem worth it.  Plus I'd want to know that the ECU map that comes with the engine had been done properly and tested

[The Pits]

I'd let Swindon do the mapping. I didn't fully appreciate the provenance of this engine being the original spec for the GTE, that's what makes it more attractive and more valuable than a komotec option.

[domguy]

These engines are being sold by Lotus right? (Via the motorsportauction website)

[domguy]

Does anyone actually know what is involved in swapping these engines over? Will they simply work (with the IPS software for example) or is there a bunch of additional work required?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

How much would you be looking at (inc VAT) for the engine, bespoke ECU (for approaching 420bhp) and removal/installation at Lotus Motorsport?

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

How much would you be looking at (inc VAT) for the engine, bespoke ECU (for approaching 420bhp) and removal/installation at Lotus Motorsport?

As a wild guess, it would probably cost the same again to install the engine (and test it etc). So, I imagine somewhere in the region of £10k. 

[The Pits]

It's always best to leave some headroom with projects like this! However if it could be done for £10k I think that would be money well spent. The spec you'd be left with - original factory GTE spec engine, installed by Lotus Motorsport - would surely be worth another £10k on top? No idea about how it might affect IPS, that could well be a problem, also for the DPM system but at least you could switch that off. I know the rest of the car is more than up to 400bhp without breaking a sweat. The Evora 400 feels like it could handle quite a bit more but that is torque limited. No chance of a Swindon engine being torque limited so there could be an issue with gearbox longevity but how many are going to put a high mileage on a GTE anyway?

Lotus only have two engines left for sale so it's not like there will be many running around in this spec either. They are pretty much giving them away at cost at £4500. There should be some value in the old engine too.

I'm only saying I'd pay more for a Swindon engined GTE, it's worth bearing in mind that I'm also daft enough to pay through the nose to put Compomotive wheels on my G Turbo!

[domguy]

It's very tempting, any idea what you could get for the removed "old" engine and supercharger on eBay?

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

As a comparison Hangar 111 are quoting £3,968.88 + VAT for the equivalent Komotec EV430 (422bhp) kit.

I know it's not the Swindon unit, but it's a cheaper means to the same ends. £10k is too much for me to justify.

[TheKevlarKid]

It would be a major faff and an extortionate expense to install it. You'd have to buy a new ecu to control it and also a new multi function dash to talk to the ecu in order to get any meaningful data displayed up in front of you.

 

The cost of the engine along with a new ecu and dash will be easily 10k and that is before you have got someone to install them and set them up, then dyno the engine, and then, and then and then...

 

I very much doubt LMS would want to do the work either, else they would have done it for the twenty cars they completely rebuilt this last year, they had more than two engines available to them back when.

Reading between the lines, it seems they didn't have any ecu code for the Swindon spec engine as the development wasn't done in-house by them, and the engine ecu was all tied in with the automac gear change system ecu they had put in them.

The advert states they are 90% stock engines. Cams and conrods is all they have different. Lotus motorsport do have code for 420hp on the std lotus ecu with a cam swap. This work can all be done without removing the engine ,wiring, dash and ecu. Don't know the cost but if I were to ever upgrade mine that is where I would go to keep it "factory".

I don't believe doing an engine swap on any of the 20 factory cars will result in monetary gain, I believe they are worth more exactly as they left the factory.

 

 

[TheKevlarKid]

19 hours ago, The Pits said:

Surely it's worth someone's while putting this engine in a GTE? If you haven't already KK (Customer: Gavin!) . Can only add to the car's value to have an original spec GTE engine, supplied by Lotus and fitted by Lotus Motorsport. I know I'd pay more for a car in that spec.

It states in the ad that these engines are new and unused.

No, I haven't put one in my gte and I wouldn't either for the reasons stated above.

However, I did end up buying one of the original spec cars from the remaining cars that were to be scrapped off after the twenty were built. Sold for track use only, it still has Swindon engine in the back . 

 

 

[Bravo73]

3 hours ago, TheKevlarKid said:

However, I did end up buying one of the original spec cars from the remaining cars that were to be scrapped off after the twenty were built. Sold for track use only, it still has Swindon engine in the back . 

OMG. The red one which was sat by Roly's office door for a bit? Good work that man!

And the market would seem to agree with your thoughts on GTE values. The black and white cars in Scotland are still available for sale. 

[The Pits]

Just the two GTE's for now then Gav?

Always wise to have a spare just in case.

Can you feel a big difference with the Swindon engine?