New Esprit

[Barrykearley 7,153]

Not looking too shabby at breakfast club this morning

[swindon_alan 1,693]

57 minutes ago, Jacques said:

Are you taking stronger and stronger hallucinogenic drugs as the days pass Jacques?

38 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Not looking too shabby at breakfast club this morning

I bet that you bathe in bloody Carnuba wax don't you Barry?

[JayEmm 1,273]

Interesting point @Jacques. There is a general consensus among the public (note - public =/= petrolheads/owners) that all Porsches are totally reliable. They aren't. Also that all Ferraris will break often and expensively. They don't.

There will be Porsches that do 250,000 miles without issue, just as there will be Ferraris that do no more than 500 miles without something going bang. Can happen to any manufacturer, although it's less common now than before.

@Barrykearley that Alfa looks enormous next to the Esprit!

[ChrisJ 1,505]

I've seen two of these Alfas on the road. Both sounded like they had diesel engines!

[Barrykearley 7,153]

They aren't small that's for sure - there were 2 present this morning.

also a new shape lotus Europa - amazing just how similar that and the Alfa  looked to each other

41 minutes ago, swindon_alan said:

 

I bet that you bathe in bloody Carnuba wax don't you Barry?

I do love the smell and feel of the stuff...... Tastes orrible though 

Nice beetle there as well. If you like that kinda thing. Funny how it was parked next to the fire point !!

[JayEmm 1,273]

I believe the 4C is the same width as a range rover! To me there are two fundamental issues with the 4C: DCT gearbox and a turbo engine. If it was a high-revving (or SC) manual, I'd have been very interested. Apparently they don't even handle as well as they should.

[Barrykearley 7,153]

There's a painted grill on the passenger side - that's a £1500 option !!

[JayEmm 1,273]

The Italians and the Germans have always been masters of the insane options list. It seems the higher the base price of a car, the worse it gets. The stuff that you get for free with a £15k vauxhall you have to pay for with a £100K Porsche

[GTK 684]

Funny the comments on the 4C, I'd love to know whether it's the case or not but it could easily have been inspired by the Esprit. It's 73.5" wide to a G car's 73.2". It's 13.09ft long to a G car's 13.7ft. Then you have the small capacity turbocharged four pot mid engine setup. It weighs in somewhere between an S2 and an S3 and the Cd is nigh on the same too. That's more than a passing resemblance to an Esprit on paper. It does make the Stevens car look small in that photo but that's just perspective playing games and it does give away 3" in height to a G car. G car's rule 

In fact now that I look, the 4C is only 1.3" taller than Barry's V8, it's narrower by 0.6", and shorter by 13".

 

[Barrykearley 7,153]

Looked far far more like a Europa cross Exige - I mean really really similar

1800cc engine in it as well - nice touch - it doesn't always have to be massive.

the old saying there's no replacement for displacement - well I'm afraid that just doesn't hang true anymore

[GTK 684]

Oh yeah, no comparison in the styling at all, just the dimensions. It's just funny that probably every review or comment about the 4C makes reference to how wide it is, and it's the same or narrower than any given Esprit model. 

[Barrykearley 7,153]

It didn't seem that big to me at all to be honest. It was nice - but not jaw droppingly original in looks

[GTK 684]

I don't like the almost cab forward look so many mid engined cars get. The Giugiaro cars have it too, but only when the driver is onboard. 

[JayEmm 1,273]

The 4C is very "square", that won't help. The engine is 1750cc... I can't wait till they get older and someone tried to shoehorn a busso lump in one

[Straightbend 17]

3 hours ago, GTK said:

It does make the Stevens car look small in that photo but that's just perspective playing games and it does give away 3" in height to a G car. G car's rule 

 

 

Yes, it's certainly not bigger than the Esprit. That is lens distortion. The 4C is closer to the corner of the photo and also closer to the camera.

The 4C is shorter, with a shorter wheelbase but taller than the Esprit. It is not really bigger than the Esprit though.

 

Edited October 9, 2016 by Straightbend

[Straightbend 17]

4 hours ago, JayEmm said:

I believe the 4C is the same width as a range rover! To me there are two fundamental issues with the 4C: DCT gearbox and a turbo engine. If it was a high-revving (or SC) manual, I'd have been very interested. Apparently they don't even handle as well as they should.

Actually they handle really well. They are very light, with a light middle engine, very stiff chassis and modern technology. Cornering is not their weakness I can tell you that.

But besides that I'm with you. A manual would have been nice.

[JayEmm 1,273]

@Straightbend I take it you've had some time in one? From memory the criticism of the handling came mostly from a lack of steering feel, and the suspension never quite doing it's job. Anything that weighs so little, with great stiffness, and that footprint SHOULD go round a corner well.. but as us Lotus types know there's more to handling than just how fast it goes round a corner.

I have no experience in one of my own to draw from

[Straightbend 17]

3 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Looked far far more like a Europa cross Exige - I mean really really similar

1800cc engine in it as well - nice touch - it doesn't always have to be massive.

the old saying there's no replacement for displacement - well I'm afraid that just doesn't hang true anymore

Oh, but it still hangs very true and always will, at least for the foreseeable future. But that was always concerning naturally aspirated engines. Turbocharging is cheating. The 4C has a turbo engine.

But with a naturally aspirated engine, regardless of technology, anything you can do with a lower displacement engine to extract more power you can do even better with a larger displacement engine. It's just the way it is.

[Barrykearley 7,153]

 have to beg to differ there I'm afraid. 

[JayEmm 1,273]

My dad has a Mercedes CLA45 (2.0L 4cyl, 360bhp) and his wife has a BMW 135i (3.0L 6cyl, 330bhp)

Both are turbocharged, but the BMW is infinitely nicer to drive as the turbo is just "padding out" the performance of the engine, whereas with the Mercedes that car lives or dies based on whether the turbos are lit. Don't get me wrong, a turbo car can be mega fun for a bit, but for "serious" driving I prioritise throttle response and linearity of delivery over outright power

[Barrykearley 7,153]

I enjoy the driving experience where you have to keep the turbo on song - then it's about driver skill and engagement.

just my thoughts - and many will disagree !! Especially the my bat and balls better types !!

[Straightbend 17]

1 hour ago, JayEmm said:

The 4C is very "square", that won't help. The engine is 1750cc... I can't wait till they get older and someone tried to shoehorn a busso lump in one

There are actually rumors that Alfa Romeo will bring out a V6 version. Although it won't the with a Busso as that won't pass current emissions tests. It will be the current Alfa V6, which is based on a GM block.

[Bibs 11,663]

13 minutes ago, Straightbend said:

Actually they handle really well.

In my experience of driving one, the opposite was the case. Great chassis but poor suspension, steering and braking.

[Straightbend 17]

10 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

@Straightbend I take it you've had some time in one? From memory the criticism of the handling came mostly from a lack of steering feel, and the suspension never quite doing it's job. Anything that weighs so little, with great stiffness, and that footprint SHOULD go round a corner well.. but as us Lotus types know there's more to handling than just how fast it goes round a corner.

I have no experience in one of my own to draw from

Yes I have. They handle well. I can't speak as compared to Esprits. But the 4C is a good handling car. It's on the straights that it lacks a bit as it gets eaten alive by the Cayman, which also gets out of corners more efficiently as well.

10 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

 have to beg to differ there I'm afraid. 

Well, sure. It's your right. But it's hard to argue with physics.

11 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

My dad has a Mercedes CLA45 (2.0L 4cyl, 360bhp) and his wife has a BMW 135i (3.0L 6cyl, 330bhp)

Both are turbocharged, but the BMW is infinitely nicer to drive as the turbo is just "padding out" the performance of the engine, whereas with the Mercedes that car lives or dies based on whether the turbos are lit. Don't get me wrong, a turbo car can be mega fun for a bit, but for "serious" driving I prioritise throttle response and linearity of delivery over outright power

Yes, I agree.

[Straightbend 17]

14 minutes ago, Bibs said:

In my experience of driving one, the opposite was the case. Great chassis but poor suspension, steering and braking.

Are you talking about ride quality or handling, as in gripping and just wanting to turn the corner?