Gold FFM Barrykearley Posted December 30, 2015 Gold FFM Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 Is a spare wheel any use ?? No no to any polluting VW diesel plants !! 2 Quote Only here once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanR Posted December 30, 2015 Report Share Posted December 30, 2015 12 hours ago, GTK said: ...Anyone suggest a parts bin gearbox/transaxle suitable for mid mount and big power? Knock on the door of Toyota's engineering buddy and grab that 3.6l flat six with their transaxles. Won't get a lower CoG for an engine. Then add a couple of turbos and there's an alternative to the Porsche flat six monopoly. For lesser models there could also be 2.5 and 2.0l four cylinder turbo boxers. 1 Quote DanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DanR Posted December 31, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 That engineering partner of Toyota also had a flat 12. 6 Quote DanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM Barrykearley Posted December 31, 2015 Gold FFM Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Right that's it - tissues - self abuse commences 1 Quote Only here once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vanya Posted December 31, 2015 Popular Post Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 And Lotus Group lawyers in 3....2.....1..... Seriously it'd be awesome if someone made a counterfeit Esprit based on new-old-stock and some moulds. 18 hours ago, The Pits said: I'm quite convinced the factory could make a world beater with sufficient resources and what a car it could be (especially with the Lexus LF-A V10) but the likely cost of a car that could really take on the supercar establishment would be at least £200k, lottery win territory for most. Would it though? How much of the 458 and 650S price is due to branding/profit margins and not the cost of development/construction? The way I see it, if the Alfa 4C can have so much carbon fibre and still be within striking range of your average gentleman's budget, and considering Alfa is (probably) making a tidy profit I'm guessing Lotus with their historic "on the edge of bankruptcy" approach could squeeze out a fantastic Esprit for £120,000. Third party powerplant and transmission (I still say evolve the 918 if it can meet emissions by some trickery, it was good for 550 BHP), extensive use of carbon fibre, Toyota parts bin switchgear and other bits & bobs, and bang you'll have one hell of a supercar at a price that's still horribly expensive but fits in a special gap in the market... I'm stacking a lot of hypotheticals, but Lotus have always managed to pull a Rabbit out of the hat in the past... 3 Quote Vanya Stanisavljevic '91 Esprit SE | '97 XK8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pits Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I love the flat six and, even better, the flat 12 suggestions but however good the former would be seen as blatantly copying Porsche and you're back to why have a copy when you can buy the original... a hard lesson soon to be re-learned courtesy of the SUV project. I'm sure Lotus could make something pretty spectacular for £120,000 but it would have to be Evora or Exige based. The 311 is already knocking on the door of £120k with the X-trac sequential. Something with 550bhp would need significantly uprated everything, costs would rocket and Lotus don't have the economies of scale to make even a basic Elise cheaply at the moment. And what does an Exige-based Hennessy Venom cost? $1.2m? Sure, the price is as fantastical as its performance but I think Lotus would be really struggling to get a 550bhp Exige out for £120,000. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them try, better still junk the SUV project and blow the lot on an ambitious, outrageous sports car. But to do something more luxurious and dramatic in spirit of the Esprit would cost so much more to make and develop. It's amazing how much more there is to an Evora compared to the Elise/Exige when you see them on the production line. To do an Esprit properly with a suitably outlandish interior wouldn't be small potatoes. Then there's the issue of power:weight. At 550bhp and say 1400kg the Esprit would fall well short of what the original Esprit achieved in its day. The Nissan GTR is heavier but makes that much power for £80k already. The £120k Nismo GTR offers close to 600bhp. As we all know the Turbo Esprit when it came out was quicker than all of its rivals (more expensive too!), the Turbo SE was also quicker than the Honda NSX, Ferrari 348 and the rest. Not much could catch the V8 Esprit either, certainly not for the V8GT's price. Honda's new NSX is estimated to cost at least £120k and looks a bit of an 'also ran' already to me. Perhaps the McLaren 650S is a step too far for even the most wildly ambitious Esprit plan but that's got 640bhp in a little over 1300kg. That much power just doesn't come cheap, so Lotus's only chance is to go much lighter and that takes you back to an Exige base. The 311 has the 650S power:weight trumped with 'only' 450bhp. The £120k pitch is probably about right Vanya for the hypothetical Esprit, undercut and out perform the McLaren 540S, Audi R8, 911 Turbo. But while we're already into the realms of cars that I could never afford, I can't help but wish for an Esprit that could knock the stuffing out of Lotus's traditional F1 rivals - McLaren and Ferrari. Failing that, just fit the LF-A V10 and very little else would matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacques Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 I feel that something is a bit overlooked here. When the Esprit came, it had a nice little engine in a light more luxurious car, with very good handleing and an outrageous design. Then came the Stevens breed. Better design still, inside and out with very good performance and even better handleing. Still it kept the smaller engine, which happens to be very modern again, aka the downsizing of many brands. Lotus managed to keep weight lower than the competition and still be faster (and better design). I would do two versions: the supercharged and turbo'ed 4 pot and, as Vanya said, the Lotus v8 developed to modern spec. I feel that Lotus somehow have to stay true to their own engines. Noone ever says that a Ferrari is just a more expensive fiat with an upscaled engine. No, they have to have their own engine. Speaking of nostalgia, apart from crasttests, rules etc, I find the Stevens Esprit wayyyy to nice, even today, compared to the all too often moders supercar design, which is an out come of a design school's trend, not an individual thinking that ultimately ends in the very same design, because it's the only way to design a sportscar. No, I don't buy that. It's a generation of young designers, who do anything from supercars, over kitchenware, to toiletroll holders. Instead of getting their own ideas, they largely design from each other. Now, I know that this have always happened to some extent, but I feel that there is no pride and originality in todays sportscar design. That is why I quoted the quy the other day who, despite his young age having normally only an eye of the latest and greatest (a description of todays generation), really digged the Esprit's superrior design, form and function combined, but with design taking the (w)edge. I saw in his eyes a lust for real sportscars, not a drop of water/used soap design. It gotta' be low, really low, have pop up lights, be ûber wide, and have havily tuned Lotus 4 banger and a Lotus v8. Why not go over the Lotus v8? I am sure it can be done. Money is no object, when you're dreaming. I am sure the financial thinking guys of you will chime in here, but hink this: there's many a supercar from the last 40 years, which would never have come into existence, if it were up to the finance department to decide. Meanwhile, I'll go try and take off that Lotus made cast manifold, and if eventually I succeed in doing so, there will have been way enough time to produce a new super Esprit. My wish is a Stevens Esprit with reworked Lotus engines. Not japscrap or something else. Kind regards, Jacques. 2 Quote Nobody does it better - than Lotus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swindon_alan Posted December 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Something that I keep meaning to ask, Bibs or one of the long termers probably know. Why was Esprit production stopped? Was it because it could no longer meet upcoming legislation, because demand was just no longer there/competition, or what? As mentioned earlier by Advantage, the tooling must have been written down to nothing by then so the capital costs were low. Also, why not continue with Esprit development? Surely an updated S4s/V8 wouldn't have taken that much outlay in the manner of Stevens -> Thomson or Thomson -> Carr? Forgive my ignorance Quote I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibs Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Pop up lights being made illegal on new cars was a factor... Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swindon_alan Posted December 31, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 Indeed Bibs. Looks like 2004 was the end for pop ups, just the Esprit and the Corvette listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_headlamp Pedestrian safety whatever. Long gone are the days of Death Race 2000... Quote I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanR Posted December 31, 2015 Report Share Posted December 31, 2015 1 hour ago, The Pits said: I love the flat six and, even better, the flat 12 suggestions but however good the former would be seen as blatantly copying Porsche and you're back to why have a copy when you can buy the original... a hard lesson soon to be re-learned courtesy of the SUV project. So start off with the 2.5 STI engine. It's different enough to the German six to fly under the radar. Once it doing its job of kicking butt and gaining market appreciation bring out the big gun. I've got to stop this dreaming... Quote DanR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swindon_alan Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 On 31/12/2015 at 11:02, Bibs said: Pop up lights being made illegal on new cars was a factor... @Bibs Our newest member UMB has an interesting slant on Esprit headlamps (no pun intended). I guess the low profile/high intensity jobbies weren't around in 2004. But it does show possibilities with slight pedestrian friendly doming perhaps? Quote I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM Sparky Posted January 2, 2016 Gold FFM Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Thanks Al. That's the second time I've vomited this afternoon. Quote British Fart to Florida, Nude to New York, Dunce to Denmark, Numpty to Newfoundland. And Shitfaced Silly Sod to Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Feeling a bit dicky? Anyway, it wasn't "just" the problem of pedestrian impact, it was many other areas of how the car performed in a crash, not to mention emissions of the ageing V8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillidoggy Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Pop-up headlights illegal? That's just plain stupid. How are you supposed to mow pedestrians down in an Esprit if you can't see them? Quote Margate Exotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmxa Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Does make you wonder who comes up with this insane safety stuff. I wonder how many pedestrians hit an esprit with the lights up vs hitting the front of a bus, yet some idiot decided pop up lights needed to be banned Quote Paddle Faster, I hear Banjos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advantage Posted January 2, 2016 Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Pop up headlights were not banned. Legislation changed to mean the car has deform in such a way that having pop up headlights in their usual format would mean the car would fail the test. However, if the mechanism could be engineered to comply with pedestrian regs then pop up headlights are perfectly acceptable on any new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM Barrykearley Posted January 2, 2016 Gold FFM Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Now here's an idea. what about the standard pop up looking lights of the Stevens when down - but instead of popping up - they spin 180 and the lights appear flush. Would tie nicely back to 007s spinning number plates Oh and be typically lotus and be a pig to fix in 20 years time !! 2 Quote Only here once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swindon_alan Posted January 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2016 Ooooh oooh Barry, you bugger! I've just put new PNM headlights on mine, but I am awfully tempted to have a go at this if I can revert it back to original if required. How 2016! Anybody got a spare pair of Stevens headlamp shells that they can lend me as a pattern? 1 Quote I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roz_Bennetts Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm glad this is being discussed - personally I hated the design of the so called 'new Esprit' that never materialised (thankfully), it looked too much like an insect with those huge aggressive grill things on the front and looked more like a Lamborghini than a Lotus. I don't care too much about the engine though the V8 would be the obvious choice. I agree with those who are asking for a slightly softened V8 shape. Quote "All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad."~ Jeremy Clarkson (about the Lotus Esprit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdw Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 On 31/12/2015 at 11:00, swindon_alan said: Something that I keep meaning to ask, Bibs or one of the long termers probably know. Why was Esprit production stopped? Was it because it could no longer meet upcoming legislation, because demand was just no longer there/competition, or what? As mentioned earlier by Advantage, the tooling must have been written down to nothing by then so the capital costs were low. Also, why not continue with Esprit development? Surely an updated S4s/V8 wouldn't have taken that much outlay in the manner of Stevens -> Thomson or Thomson -> Carr? Forgive my ignorance From what I have read elsewhere Renault ending production of the gearbox was also a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold FFM Barrykearley Posted January 4, 2016 Gold FFM Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Just a point about exterior restyling the pork 911 has been "changed" millions of times it seems - but still looks much like the original squashed beetle. Don't stop them selling in numbers though does it Quote Only here once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chillidoggy Posted January 4, 2016 Report Share Posted January 4, 2016 Lotus - If you're going to build another car, don't copy the Esprit, and call it something different while you're at it. I would be like BMW making a car and calling it a Mini. I mean, whoever heard of such a thing? 1 Quote Margate Exotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenna'sEspritTurbo Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I loved my Rover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeanvm Posted January 6, 2016 Report Share Posted January 6, 2016 I have send this some time ago on the Belgian forum to see what reaction it would give. But for mostly I was disappointed that Lotus had canceled the NEW ESPRIT. For me is important that it has his wedge design, I feel that the New Esprit need this, for his heritage. Must be simple, light and also comfortable. The picture hereunder has the same technology like the BMW i8. This sketch is very the same like the original S1: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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