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swindon_alan

New Esprit

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Is a spare wheel any use ?? :driving:

 

No no to any polluting VW diesel plants !!

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Only here once

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12 hours ago, GTK said:

...Anyone suggest a parts bin gearbox/transaxle suitable for mid mount and big power? 

Knock on the door of Toyota's engineering buddy and grab that 3.6l flat six with their transaxles. Won't get a lower CoG for an engine. Then add a couple of turbos and there's an alternative to the Porsche flat six monopoly. For lesser models there could also be 2.5 and 2.0l four cylinder turbo boxers.

P16_36DOHC_s.jpg

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DanR

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I love the flat six and, even better, the flat 12 suggestions but however good the former would be seen as blatantly copying Porsche and you're back to why have a copy when you can buy the original... a hard lesson soon to be re-learned courtesy of the SUV project.

I'm sure Lotus could make something pretty spectacular for £120,000 but it would have to be Evora or Exige based. The 311 is already knocking on the door of £120k with the X-trac sequential. Something with 550bhp would need significantly uprated everything, costs would rocket and Lotus don't have the economies of scale to make even a basic Elise cheaply at the moment. And what does an Exige-based Hennessy Venom cost? $1.2m? Sure, the price is as fantastical as its performance but I think Lotus would be really struggling to get a 550bhp Exige out for £120,000. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see them try, better still junk the SUV project and blow the lot on an ambitious, outrageous sports car. But to do something more luxurious and dramatic in spirit of the Esprit would cost so much more to make and develop. It's amazing how much more there is to an Evora compared to the Elise/Exige when you see them on the production line. To do an Esprit properly with a suitably outlandish interior wouldn't be small potatoes. Then there's the issue of power:weight. At 550bhp and say 1400kg the Esprit would fall well short of what the original Esprit achieved in its day. The Nissan GTR is heavier but makes that much power for £80k already. The £120k Nismo GTR offers close to 600bhp. 

As we all know the Turbo Esprit when it came out was quicker than all of its rivals (more expensive too!), the Turbo SE was also quicker than the Honda NSX, Ferrari 348 and the rest. Not much could catch the V8 Esprit either, certainly not for the V8GT's price. Honda's new NSX is estimated to cost at least £120k and looks a bit of an 'also ran' already to me. Perhaps the McLaren 650S is a step too far for even the most wildly ambitious Esprit plan but that's got 640bhp in a little over 1300kg. That much power just doesn't come cheap, so Lotus's only chance is to go much lighter and that takes you back to an Exige base. The 311 has the 650S power:weight trumped with 'only' 450bhp.

The £120k pitch is probably about right Vanya for the hypothetical Esprit, undercut and out perform the McLaren 540S, Audi R8, 911 Turbo. But while we're already into the realms of cars that I could never afford, I can't help but wish for an Esprit that could knock the stuffing out of Lotus's traditional F1 rivals - McLaren and Ferrari. Failing that, just fit the LF-A V10 and very little else would matter.

 

 

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I feel that something is a bit overlooked here. When the Esprit came, it had a nice little engine in a light more luxurious car, with very good handleing and an outrageous design.

Then came the Stevens breed. Better design still, inside and out with very good performance and even better handleing. Still it kept the smaller engine, which happens to be very modern again, aka the downsizing of many brands.

Lotus managed to keep weight lower than the competition and still be faster (and better design).

I would do two versions: the supercharged and turbo'ed 4 pot and, as Vanya said, the Lotus v8 developed to modern spec. I feel that Lotus somehow have to stay true to their own engines. Noone ever says that a Ferrari is just a more expensive fiat with an upscaled engine. No, they have to have their own engine.

Speaking of nostalgia, apart from crasttests, rules etc, I find the Stevens Esprit wayyyy to nice, even today, compared to the all too often moders supercar design, which is an out come of a design school's trend, not an individual thinking that ultimately ends in the very same design, because it's the only way to design a sportscar. No, I don't buy that. It's a generation of young designers, who do anything from supercars, over kitchenware, to toiletroll holders. Instead of getting their own ideas, they largely design from each other. Now, I know that this have always happened to some extent, but I feel that there is no pride and originality in todays sportscar design. That is why I quoted the quy the other day who, despite his young age having normally only an eye of the latest and greatest (a description of todays generation), really digged the Esprit's superrior design, form and function combined, but with design taking the (w)edge. I saw in his eyes a lust for real sportscars, not a drop of water/used soap design. It gotta' be low, really low, have pop up lights, be ûber wide, and have havily tuned Lotus 4 banger and a Lotus v8. Why not go over the Lotus v8? I am sure it can be done. Money is no object, when you're dreaming.

I am sure the financial thinking guys of you will chime in here, but hink this: there's many a supercar from the last 40 years, which would never have come into existence, if it were up to the finance department to decide. Meanwhile, I'll go try and take off that Lotus made cast manifold, and if eventually I succeed in doing so, there will have been way enough time to produce a new super Esprit.

My wish is a Stevens Esprit with reworked Lotus engines. Not japscrap or something else.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

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Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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Something that I keep meaning to ask, Bibs or one of the long termers probably know.

Why was Esprit production stopped? Was it because it could no longer meet upcoming legislation, because demand was just no longer there/competition, or what? As mentioned earlier by Advantage, the tooling must have been written down to nothing by then so the capital costs were low.

Also, why not continue with Esprit development? Surely an updated S4s/V8 wouldn't have taken that much outlay in the  manner of Stevens -> Thomson or Thomson -> Carr?

Forgive my ignorance

:sofa:


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Pop up lights being made illegal on new cars was a factor... 


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

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Indeed Bibs. Looks like 2004 was the end for pop ups, just the Esprit and the Corvette listed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_headlamp

Pedestrian safety whatever. Long gone are the days of Death Race 2000...

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/cinemorgue/images/4/44/Dr2000-poster.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150519173437


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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1 hour ago, The Pits said:

I love the flat six and, even better, the flat 12 suggestions but however good the former would be seen as blatantly copying Porsche and you're back to why have a copy when you can buy the original... a hard lesson soon to be re-learned courtesy of the SUV project.

 

 

So start off with the 2.5 STI engine. It's different enough to the German six to fly under the radar. Once it doing its job of kicking butt and gaining market appreciation bring out the big gun.

I've got to stop this dreaming...


DanR

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On 31/12/2015 at 11:02, Bibs said:

Pop up lights being made illegal on new cars was a factor... 

@Bibs Our newest member UMB has an interesting slant on Esprit headlamps (no pun intended). I guess the low profile/high intensity jobbies weren't around in 2004. But it does show possibilities with slight pedestrian friendly doming perhaps?

12115469_1147636551931556_5041047861104012056_n.jpg


I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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Thanks Al.  That's the second time I've vomited this afternoon.  


British Ambassador to Florida, New York, Denmark and Newfoundland.  And Sweden.

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Feeling a bit dicky?

 

Anyway, it wasn't "just" the problem of pedestrian impact, it was many other areas of how the car performed in a crash, not to mention emissions of the ageing V8. 

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Pop-up headlights illegal? That's just plain stupid. How are you supposed to mow pedestrians down in an Esprit if you can't see them?


Margate Exotics.

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Does make you wonder who comes up with this insane safety stuff.  I wonder how many pedestrians hit an esprit with the lights up vs hitting the front of a bus, yet some idiot decided pop up lights needed to be banned


Paddle Faster, I hear Banjos!

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Pop up headlights were not banned. Legislation changed to mean the car has deform in such a way that having pop up headlights in their usual format would mean the car would fail the test. However, if the mechanism could be engineered to comply with pedestrian regs then pop up headlights are perfectly acceptable on any new car.

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Now here's an idea.

what about the standard pop up looking lights of the Stevens when down - but instead of popping up - they spin 180 and the lights appear flush. Would tie nicely back to 007s spinning number plates

Oh and be typically lotus and be a pig to fix in 20 years time !!

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Only here once

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Ooooh oooh Barry, you bugger! I've just put new PNM headlights on mine, but I am awfully tempted to have a go at this if I can revert it back to original if required. How 2016!

Anybody got a spare pair of Stevens headlamp shells that they can lend me as a pattern?

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I tempted fate...now my Esprit V8 IS in bits...(sob)

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I'm glad this is being discussed - personally I hated the design of the so called 'new Esprit' that never materialised (thankfully), it looked too much like an insect with those huge aggressive grill things on the front and looked more like a Lamborghini than a Lotus. I don't care too much about the engine though the V8 would be the obvious choice. I agree with those who are asking for a slightly softened V8 shape. :)


"All we know is that when they stop making this, we will be properly, properly sad."

~ Jeremy Clarkson (about the Lotus Esprit)

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On ‎31‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 11:00, swindon_alan said:

Something that I keep meaning to ask, Bibs or one of the long termers probably know.

Why was Esprit production stopped? Was it because it could no longer meet upcoming legislation, because demand was just no longer there/competition, or what? As mentioned earlier by Advantage, the tooling must have been written down to nothing by then so the capital costs were low.

Also, why not continue with Esprit development? Surely an updated S4s/V8 wouldn't have taken that much outlay in the  manner of Stevens -> Thomson or Thomson -> Carr?

Forgive my ignorance

:sofa:

From what I have read elsewhere Renault ending production of the gearbox was also a factor. 

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Just a point about exterior restyling

the pork 911 has been "changed" millions of times it seems - but still looks much like the original squashed beetle. Don't stop them selling in numbers though does it 

:sofa:


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Lotus - If you're going to build another car, don't copy the Esprit, and call it something different while you're at it. I would be like BMW making a car and calling it a Mini. I mean, whoever heard of such a thing?

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Margate Exotics.

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I have send this some time ago on the Belgian forum to see what reaction it would give. But for mostly I was disappointed that Lotus had canceled the NEW ESPRIT.

For me is important that it has his wedge design, I feel that the New Esprit need this, for his heritage.

Must be simple, light and also comfortable.

The picture hereunder has the same technology like the BMW i8.

This sketch is very the same like the original S1:

new esprit dream zz d.JPG

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