SR today or 400 tomorrow?

[NeedForSpeed]

Hi all, as you could have read in my introduction post I'm a happy owner of a 2011 Evora standard (280HP or a little more with the sports exhaust, sport airbox and ECU reprogramming ).

Last week I was to my dealer and he advertised me of an offer they are making to their customers with a super-valuation of used Evoras of 18.000€ over the market value if one buys a SR. That would mean I could get a new S-IPS one for as low as 38.000!!!

That is very tempting but sounds like a move to get rid of the "old" SRs (he even tried hurry my decision saying there's just 7 left!) now that the killer-product is the 400.

I've been thinking about it and I'm now doubtful thinking I'd may be saving to buy a 400 in a few months (hoping they extend the 18k thing to the 400s too).

My main concern is that the SR looks and feels too similar to my current car, that the old-gen IPS on the SR could make me want back the manual (though on my car it's far from perfect). On the other hand the 400 would cost me almost twice plus it will cost even more on luxury taxes (here in Italy we have a tax on cars based on engine power, so the 400 would cost almost 1000€ more per year over the SR 350HP).

Tomorrow I'll go test-drive the SR and will see if I can get a ride on the 400 too.

Edited December 28, 2015 by NeedForSpeed

[auRouge]

Bloody hell! That's a deal if I've ever seen one. If I've understood the figures you're not going to loose much and get to enjoy a newer more sorted car.If it's a 2014/15 car it could be cheaper in the long run to spend on a newer car than fix yours if it goes wrong in the future.. if you know what I mean... Bit of man maths there too? What a dilemma!! Enjoy??

[ramjet]

Your dealer is a dangling a carrot in front of you, isn't he?

[NeedForSpeed]

34 minutes ago, auRouge said:

Bloody hell! That's a deal if I've ever seen one. If I've understood the figures you're not going to loose much and get to enjoy a newer more sorted car.If it's a 2014/15 car it could be cheaper in the long run to spend on a newer car than fix yours if it goes wrong in the future.. if you know what I mean... Bit of man maths there too? What a dilemma!! Enjoy??

Yes, pity I just spent 1000€ on new tires and another 500€ to have the air-conditioner fixed (leaking condenser)!  With a "more sorted car" you mean the SR or the 400? Do you guys think that having the 400 so many new parts it could face those same youth problems that plagued the 2009-10 Evoras?

But my main concern is if the SR-S IPS is an enough big upgrade over my current Evora 280 or I'd better wait and jump on the 400 which would really make me feel I'm buying a new car and not I've just tuned-up and repainted mine like I'm afraid the SR could feel like. Consider that the Evora for me is a second car, a weekend drive.

25 minutes ago, ramjet said:

Your dealer is a dangling a carrot in front of you, isn't he?

He's clearly! I'm just afraid he's hiding a stick in his other hand! (in the form of the same deal offered on the 400 too a few months after I could have bought the SR). 

[ramjet]

Ask him outright. Say you may well be prepared to come up with the money for the 400 if the same deal is offered.

Nothing to lose.

[CaptainSlow]

Take it for a test drive. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the IPS but others seems to love it. Pretty sure that you will feel the difference. Both in terms of power, the super charger is addictive. But also the interior finish. 

As of the 400 it's to early to say if there are any issues. But since there are quite a few new parts it's not unlikely. Guess that's the price of being an early adopter.

[NeedForSpeed]

So yesterday afternoon I was at the dealer. He had only one SR (black & red, pretty cool but didn't catch my attention that much), unfortunately the car didn't have the plates so I couldn't try that one. So we went out with a MY 2012 regular S-IPS (from another customer who switched to the 400). At first he sat on the driving seat and we headed to the highway, unfortunately it was around 5-6 pm and the traffic of commuters didn't let him unleash all the power. I was (negatively and positively) impressed by how silent the car was, you could barely distinguish wether the exhaust valve was open or closed. When we arrived a bit outside the city we stopped on a twisty country road that I know very well (I often come there with my car) and we switched positions. As I told you before I had little expectations on the IPS so it ended up being a pleasant surprise: downshifts are pretty fast while upshifting seemed to me a little bit slower (he was all the time saying that the SR is on another league: the IPS software is different (mmm never heard that), that the exhaust is different and bla bla) but what didn't buy me at all was the engine: ok, it's a lot torquier (omg, dunno if this word actually exists in english ), but, maybe for the lack of sound, it didn't felt that faster than mine.

Anyhow, the best was yet to come: when we came back to the shop I told him that honestly, if he'd be making me the same 18k offer on the 400, I'd have bought one same day! So he replied me that he can't but he can "try" (which means he will ) to reach 10k over the value of my Evora for a 400 that they have in store (he showed me the only one they had: an ugly silver with red interiors) but in the end he said we can do it also on a car that I can configure to my tastes. So... I'm sold for the 400!

Now the questions are:

Black pack is a must have for me. Base color? Red or white?

Manual or automatic?

Are the Alcantara interiors worth the huge price (almost 3.400€) and will they be more durable than the stock ones that, as I read somewhere, tend to wear pretty fast? (btw, for 3.400€ I guess I could have the interiors replaced a couple of times )

[Jim Lin]

wow what a deal on SRs!! But I can't blame you for going with the 400!

hold on...did I read that right, he offered you the same deal on a new 400!!

 

[NeedForSpeed]

4 hours ago, Jim Lin said:

wow what a deal on SRs!! But I can't blame you for going with the 400!

hold on...did I read that right, he offered you the same deal on a new 400!!

 

Not exactly: for the SR the bonus on the value of my car would have been 18.000€ (officially written on a promo email), on the 400 "just" 10.000€ (but just on words).

And I'm starting to fear that the dealer is loosing a bit the grip on Lotuses: till few years ago they used to rule an owners club, arranging meetings and track-days, now they've started to sell mundane cars (Mitsubishi) to survive. A few weeks ago I saw their stand at a local mall with an Evora 400 in front (to attract people) and all around japanese SUVs and hatchbacks (to sell to the same people).

Worries me a bit to buy an over 100.000€ car from a brand that is clearly in not so good finances and a dealer that has a b-plan already in place, but, on the other hand, I'd like to help them with my money rather than give them to some "big fish" like Porsche.

Edited December 31, 2015 by NeedForSpeed

[Jim Lin]

5 hours ago, NeedForSpeed said:

Not exactly: for the SR the bonus on the value of my car would have been 18.000€ (officially written on a promo email), on the 400 "just" 10.000€ (but just on words).

And I'm starting to fear that the dealer is loosing a bit the grip on Lotuses: till few years ago they used to rule an owners club, arranging meetings and track-days, now they've started to sell mundane cars (Mitsubishi) to survive. A few weeks ago I saw their stand at a local mall with an Evora 400 in front (to attract people) and all around japanese SUVs and hatchbacks (to sell to the same people).

Worries me a bit to buy an over 100.000€ car from a brand that is clearly in not so good finances and a dealer that has a b-plan already in place, but, on the other hand, I'd like to help them with my money rather than give them to some "big fish" like Porsche.

Ah I see.....so losing out on 8000 euros for the 400!! 

I totally agree with you on giving my money to Lotus as opposed to Porsche. I do like the look of a Porsche but I want to be different, and I too would rather support a smaller company rather than Porsche. 

I can't afford to buy new though, so going to wait a year - 1.5 to see what prices for the 400 will be before I jump in.....

Edited December 31, 2015 by Jim Lin

[auRouge]

Hi,

By more sorted I mean the 2013 onwards models had quality improvements that should in theory mean an easier car to live with.

So the 400 is €100k Euro but they will give you the value of your 2011S with an extra €10k discount?

Im in Milan today, weather over the Alps and all over northern Italy was beautiful yesterday. A 400 in Italy is way cooler than a Porsche?

I think you're right to question the Alcantara. If it was a Ferrari or Aston I'd say it's worth it but if it's going to prematurely wear then stick with the leather (my old cars leather stayed fresh and tight!). Black with Black or Grey with Black would be my choice?

Good luck, hope it happens! 

 

[NeedForSpeed]

2 hours ago, auRouge said:

Hi,

By more sorted I mean the 2013 onwards models had quality improvements that should in theory mean an easier car to live with.

So the 400 is €100k Euro but they will give you the value of your 2011S with an extra €10k discount?

Im in Milan today, weather over the Alps and all over northern Italy was beautiful yesterday. A 400 in Italy is way cooler than a Porsche?

I think you're right to question the Alcantara. If it was a Ferrari or Aston I'd say it's worth it but if it's going to prematurely wear then stick with the leather (my old cars leather stayed fresh and tight!). Black with Black or Grey with Black would be my choice?

Good luck, hope it happens! 

 

Exactly, the 400 fitted with Black Pack and Alcantara would then cost me around 65k which is exactly how much I paid for my current Evora back in 2011.

Why you say Alcantara is going to prematurely wear? The main reason why I'm itching towards it is that the new 400 Sparco seats are rather delicate (read some reports of 400s with already wore seats) and I know that Alcantara is usually more durable and easier to clean than leather. And I don't think that Ferrari or Aston can have "better" Alcantara than Lotus provided that Alcantara is a patented microfiber compound that is all produced by the same factory here in Italy. And I like the idea to put a touch of italian style into a british car: marriage of the two greatest sports-car manufacturing schools!

What is preventing me is not only the price of the Alcantara-Pack but also the lack of the leather smell that, for example, on my car still welcomes me in everytime I jump in since almost 5 years!

Edited December 31, 2015 by NeedForSpeed

[auRouge]

Quite like the idea of an Alcantara. I had it in my old Civic Type R years ago, looks great, really comfortable and holds you in place when driving a bit quicker. Can you spec it on the Center insert only a do the side bolsters in leather? You'll get the best of both worlds (smell and looks) that way and it's never too hot or cold either???

Like this:-

[NeedForSpeed]

22 hours ago, auRouge said:

Quite like the idea of an Alcantara. I had it in my old Civic Type R years ago, looks great, really comfortable and holds you in place when driving a bit quicker. Can you spec it on the Center insert only a do the side bolsters in leather? You'll get the best of both worlds (smell and looks) that way and it's never too hot or cold either???

Like this:-

Very cool. Mmm... Ferrari 458... my impossible dream!  

But I'm afraid the configuration on the 400 is different as you can see from these pics that I gathered around the internet:

 

On the other hand, having alcantara also on the bolsters would avoid some ugly "differential wear" as shown on the this pic of a 2008 Audi:

Edited January 4, 2016 by NeedForSpeed

[auRouge]

The possible wear issue is kind of impossible to predict I guess. My old Civic never had differential wear and that Ferrari still looks brand new after 16000 km but it's an occasional car and the owner is slim!! 

I read on here somewhere that some of the E400 demonstrators Alcantara seats were looking tired already... I guess demonstrators are never really looked after ehh! 

Based on those photos I'd go Alcantara, it looks awesome. Full credit to Lotus, they have have done a great job facelifting what I personally thought was already a great looking interior, even if you couldn't see all the switches and there was a bit of reflection on the speedo housing. 

Very envious?

[NeedForSpeed]

1 hour ago, auRouge said:

The possible wear issue is kind of impossible to predict I guess. My old Civic never had differential wear and that Ferrari still looks brand new after 16000 km but it's an occasional car and the owner is slim!! 

I read on here somewhere that some of the E400 demonstrators Alcantara seats were looking tired already... I guess demonstrators are never really looked after ehh! 

Based on those photos I'd go Alcantara, it looks awesome. Full credit to Lotus, they have have done a great job facelifting what I personally thought was already a great looking interior, even if you couldn't see all the switches and there was a bit of reflection on the speedo housing. 

Very envious?

I read about the wear problem too, but not of Alcantara... Of stock leather! I'm going Alcantara basically for this reason, please don't tell me that Alcantara seats have same wear issues!

The new interiors are... well... different: the car is a lot easier to enter, tried myself that, the buttons behind the steering wheel were cool (especially with the aluminium plate, don't like that much the "carbon-style" of the SR) but whoever owns an Evora knows that to see them not only you must take your eyes away from the road, you even have to move your head aside! And I hope the new gauges are more visible than the old ones that on sunny days (that down here are quite common) show just nice reflections of the sky.

Ah btw, for those (me included) that didn't like that horrible metal letters "LOTUS" plate above the sat-nav, my dealer told me that is present only on pre-production cars, that Lotus has received a lot of negative feedback about that (what a surprise! ) and so decided to ditch it for production cars.

Edited January 4, 2016 by NeedForSpeed

[Colin G]

I love the 400 interior. As seems to have been the case with all aspects of the new car, it's just taken a slight adjustment having been an owner of two S1 Evora's to get my head around it. I think anyone spending a decent amount of time in a 400 would love it, it's a stunning machine.

[auRouge]

5 hours ago, NeedForSpeed said:

I read about the wear problem too, but not of Alcantara... Of stock leather! I'm going Alcantara basically for this reason, please don't tell me that Alcantara seats have same wear issues!

I really think it's almost impossible to measure. I've seen really messed up leather seats in other manufacturers almost brand new cars (Porsche) and it's obviously just down to the way they've been treated. Scruffy jeans everyday is going to wear at a different rate to say a suit trouser... 

alcantara trim is special and adds to the drama. 

[Breeze]

When I bought my Evora S Sr in May, I went with the idea firmly in mind that I wanted a manual..... until I tried the Automatic. Bought the Automatic, and am very happy with it. For every day road driving it really works for me. When in sport mode it changes gear way faster than I, or I suspect most, could with a manual. If doing a lot of track work maybe the manual would be more interesting, but the Evora works really well as a GT, and for me I wouldn't now consider a manual. The automatic really does make a car with a split personality, in the most enjoyable sense.

[NeedForSpeed]

So after having been tempted by the Dark Side (was at local Porsche dealer just to have the confirmation that the Cayman GT4 is sold out)?, Saturday I will go place the order for the 400 (in time to be able to get the 3+3 program that, according to what Lotus dealer told me, is going to expire at the end of this month).

I've decided that it will be red with "Black Pack" and manual transmission (that here is a bonus also for resale).

The only final doubt is about the interiors: I'm not totally sold to Alcantara, in particular I don't like much how the Alcanatara and leather parts are coupled especially on the passenger side of the dashboard where the Alcantara covers just the front and looks like a pillow or some aftermarket patch (pic attached).

In the options list alternative to the "Alcantara Pack" there's the "Leather Pack" priced exactly the same that lists as covered in leather the exact same parts of the Alcantara one. What I wonder is: if one selects none of them of what material will those parts be? The dealer surpirisingly told me "fabric", but I can't believe that a more than 100k car that wishes to compete with the 911 can have standard fabric interiors!

[Colin G]

I highly approve of your choice. 

[NeedForSpeed]

Order placed Saturday afternoon!

Color: RED w/Black Pack

Glossy Black Wheels

Manual Transmission with LSD

In the end, provided I wasn't that sure about the Alcantara and, according to my dealer, the "Leather Pack" makes sense only if you make a dual color, I ended up going for the "Standard Interiors" BUT with the little "Lotus Exclusive" touch of having the stitchings in red like the car (570€).

I've already found a way to spend part of the €3.000 saved with this choice by considering enrolling to the Lotus License Driving School. Pity the first available dates are at the end of March that could be when my 400 is already arriving; would have loved to visit the Hethel factory and see my car on the assembly line!

P.S.: the "Evora experience" is a driving school or they just let you drive the car without any instruction?

[Bravo73]

34 minutes ago, NeedForSpeed said:

P.S.: the "Evora experience" is a driving school or they just let you drive the car without any instruction?

Nice choice of colours. It is the updated version of my car.

During the 'Evora experience', you will drive the LDA Evora with an instructor (2 x 20 minute sessions). If you want to drive your own Evora around Hethel, you will have to come back for a 'Lotus On Track' trackday. Their next Hethel day is Saturday 30th April: http://www.lotus-on-track.com/lotshop/

If you really, really want to see your car on the production line, why not fly into Norwich for the day to do the Factory Tour? KLM have regular flights via Schipol.

[Bibs]

[NeedForSpeed]

13 minutes ago, Bravo73 said:

Nice choice of colours. It is the updated version of my car.

During the 'Evora experience', you will drive the LDA Evora with an instructor (2 x 20 minute sessions). If you want to drive your own Evora around Hethel, you will have to come back for a 'Lotus On Track' trackday. Their next Hethel day is Saturday 30th April: http://www.lotus-on-track.com/lotshop/

If you really, really want to see your car on the production line, why not fly into Norwich for the day to do the Factory Tour? KLM have regular flights via Schipol.

No, I don't wanna drive my brand new car on the track: I don't wanna stress the new engine. What I was wondering about is wether the "Experience" will involve some learning with an instruction or is just a free ride on the track.

Thanks for the suggestion about the flights, already checked that but I'm leaning towards flying to London (Ryanair makes that really cheap) stay in London and then reach Norwich by train (not rent a car because I really can't swallow RHD). I have a couple of friends who have moved to London in the past years and this could be the occasion to go visit them too.