2002 V8 gearbox

[kmcmouse]

Purchasing an 02 V8 with the Lotus ECU chip upgrade. Having read all the posts I can find on the gearbox/axels, I still do not really know how to drive this car in its "stock" form. I seems most of the failures have occurred on modified cars with power chips and upgrades to allow much more torque/HP to the drive train. I do not plan to track the car but do like to drive a bit on the aggressive side so I what to know if the car can deal with my driving style. I do not drag race or do hard standing starts but do like an aggresive shift from first to second up in the higher rpm band, also downshifts from third to second. Any thoughts here would be a great help. I want to enjoy the car but want to know its limits before I find them myself!

[peter_england99]

I

[extremeesprit]

I keep on seeing this all the time, people saying how bad the transmission is and that as soon as you do anything to the car it will break. When you purchase an ecu upgrade, you only have to wait until you see transmission parts falling out behind the car. Interesting enough, these comments mostly come from people who never have had any experience modifying esprits and only reading posts from others who never had any experience modifying esprits.

I have been racing esprits for a very long time and spend a lot of time with other people who are racing and modifying esprits. I have also spent a lot of time with GT40 replicas who are also using the same transmission (without the specially hardened "Lotus" gears), but with 500HP in lieu of the 350HP Lotus engines and they are also spending most of their time tracking their cars.

Most transmission failures comes from people who does not know how to shift or drive their cars modified or not. I agree that the Lotus tranny has weaker 2nd gear, but by all means the esprit is not as fragile as everyone is picturing it. The esprit is ment to be driven and driven hard. It is not a trailer queen and to drive grandma around the block vehicle. A matter of fact the car will break more often if it is not driven enough.

Granted, you can go overboard modifying and then need to beef up other components, but this is the same for any vehicle. As long you do it in moderation, you will have a very drivable car that will last a very long time.

The Red ecu upgrade will not give you an additional 100HP like Lotus says without doing some further modifications to the car like changing the wastegates. However, I think the ecu upgrade by itself is wonderful. The car will feel much stronger, run smoother and cooler. The only real downside to it is that the car will run richer and shorten the life of your cats. (Stepping off my soapbox)

Johan

[actwon]

I keep on seeing this all the time, people saying how bad the transmission is and that as soon as you do anything to the car it will break. When you purchase an ecu upgrade, you only have to wait until you see transmission parts falling out behind the car. Interesting enough, these comments mostly come from people who never have had any experience modifying esprits and only reading posts from others who never had any experience modifying esprits.

I have been racing esprits for a very long time and spend a lot of time with other people who are racing and modifying esprits. I have also spent a lot of time with GT40 replicas who are also using the same transmission (without the specially hardened "Lotus" gears), but with 500HP in lieu of the 350HP Lotus engines and they are also spending most of their time tracking their cars.

Most transmission failures comes from people who does not know how to shift or drive their cars modified or not. I agree that the Lotus tranny has weaker 2nd gear, but by all means the esprit is not as fragile as everyone is picturing it. The esprit is ment to be driven and driven hard. It is not a trailer queen and to drive grandma around the block vehicle. A matter of fact the car will break more often if it is not driven enough.

Granted, you can go overboard modifying and then need to beef up other components, but this is the same for any vehicle. As long you do it in moderation, you will have a very drivable car that will last a very long time.

The Red ecu upgrade will not give you an additional 100HP like Lotus says without doing some further modifications to the car like changing the wastegates. However, I think the ecu upgrade by itself is wonderful. The car will feel much stronger, run smoother and cooler. The only real downside to it is that the car will run richer and shorten the life of your cats. (Stepping off my soapbox)

Johan

JOHAN!!!

Hey there fella! Long time no hear from! How have things been?

[chstephens]

I keep on seeing this all the time, people saying how bad the transmission is and that as soon as you do anything to the car it will break. When you purchase an ecu upgrade, you only have to wait until you see transmission parts falling out behind the car. Interesting enough, these comments mostly come from people who never have had any experience modifying esprits and only reading posts from others who never had any experience modifying esprits.

I have been racing esprits for a very long time and spend a lot of time with other people who are racing and modifying esprits. I have also spent a lot of time with GT40 replicas who are also using the same transmission (without the specially hardened "Lotus" gears), but with 500HP in lieu of the 350HP Lotus engines and they are also spending most of their time tracking their cars.

Most transmission failures comes from people who does not know how to shift or drive their cars modified or not. I agree that the Lotus tranny has weaker 2nd gear, but by all means the esprit is not as fragile as everyone is picturing it. The esprit is ment to be driven and driven hard. It is not a trailer queen and to drive grandma around the block vehicle. A matter of fact the car will break more often if it is not driven enough.

Granted, you can go overboard modifying and then need to beef up other components, but this is the same for any vehicle. As long you do it in moderation, you will have a very drivable car that will last a very long time.

The Red ecu upgrade will not give you an additional 100HP like Lotus says without doing some further modifications to the car like changing the wastegates. However, I think the ecu upgrade by itself is wonderful. The car will feel much stronger, run smoother and cooler. The only real downside to it is that the car will run richer and shorten the life of your cats. (Stepping off my soapbox)

Johan

Johan

You have stated the facts very well and I could not agree more. The UN1 is not fragile and "cheap" - folklore has evolved due to a FEW failures. It is all in the driver's hands, literally.

Craig

[rwiggins951]

As a person who has modded my Esprit and wishes to continue to do so, I have pondered this topic at length.

There are two ways in which a part can be less than ideal: First, it can be designed such that it is under engineered for the power it is expected to handle. Second is the level of consistency in metalurgy and manufacturing tolerances. I believe this second issue is what Lotus suffers from, and at the core of these debates. Whether we are talking about gearboxes or about liners, axles, etc, I think this comes down to variations amongst the parts themselves. Where a Porsche part is engineered to handle a max of 458.2 ft lbs consistently, it seems there are Lotus parts that fail at below stock HP for some folks on some cars, and on other cars the very same part can live at significantly more. Some of this comes down to driver behavior, but more (IMHO) comes down to the fact that the manufacturing process for Lotus and Renault will have significantly more variability than larger manufacturers might. The guy who recently had an axle failure is a great example: I honestly believe that variability in the axle metalurgy is a more likely explanation than saying he was dishonest about how he drives the car, or that the PO was secretly an abusive maniac.

This is a bit scary though--did I get a good trans or a bad one? How can I tell?? Luck of the draw.

For me, I am using a boost controler that allows me to set the aggressiveness of the boost curve. I think the gradual build is easier on the driveline.

...I also just took delivery of my Porsche G50 transmission that I hope to install soon so I can make big power without being nervous about trans or axle failures.

I also believe the bad reputation of the Renault trans is greatly exaggerated, but I have had too many nightmares about grenading my transmission while racing a kid in a modded eclipse (or some other similar car boosted within inches of its life).

Regards!

[mamovaka]

The guy who recently had an axle failure is a great example: I honestly believe that variability in the axle metalurgy is a more likely explanation than saying he was dishonest about how he drives the car, or that the PO was secretly an abusive maniac.

I think you are reffering to my problems with the Esprit I just purchase, having had the primary shaft snap like a twig and the driveshaft(axl) snap as well.

it's a 6 year old car, that had 38kish miles when these errors occured. The general consensus is that is simply a mixture of age and wear and tear. I can tell you one thing, I did not ONE standing start with the car and I granny shift the car like you would not believe.. While I was not present during the primary shaft faliure I was there when the driveaxl snapped, and it snapped from 80%-90%roll on throttle in first gear(no hard launch at all). To me that just shouldn't happen, and the mechanics that looked at the snapped metal all agreed it is just a case of wear and tear.

I spoke to Johan on the phone for about 30 minutes or so about my specific car and the issues it suffered. He's a pretty bright and experienced man when it comes to these cars, I too believe that the Esprit can handle far more than is assume, while I do not think it is a robust as a Viper or Vette(snicker) It certainly is stronger than say.. a diablo(loud snicker).

While I now granny shift 1-2 gear like a total baby due to the fear of another 6k in repairs.. I still feel that the car is very capable of much more aggressive driving, When I feel like testing that theory (aka feel like putting up to 10k into the car again) I will let you know my results!

[Fred Basset]

I ran my first V8 everyday over 19000 miles. Granted it was standard but I drove it fairly hard everywhere and I did not have a single gearbox issue.

The second one I don't use every day so can't comment on it.

I'm not sure consistently using high revs in first gear with an "agressive" change to second is a great idea in any car.

I've been pondering this recently though, if the driveshafts are a problem could we have some carbon ones made. I know on my Evo forum more and more people are fitting carbon props on 500+ bhp cars.

Regards

Fred

[chstephens]

There is good logic to Rod's post on metal quality. As the Lotus gearbox is a special version of the UN1 and such few quantities are produced, there is a good chance that the tolerances are variable. It's a shame but probably a reality.

Rod - please keep us posted on the G50 conversion. It is something I have heard of and would love to learn more if I knew where to start....

Where can one read-up on the alterations required? Bellhousing, cables, inversion etc.......suppliers or all custom work....

Craig

[hasuSan]

As Johan said....the gearbox got a bad rap and been exaggerated.

I still have my G Esprit. This gearbox also gotten a bad rap. They said, if I up the horsepower

(even a little bit) from the stock, the citroen box will grenade.

I installed an upgrade turbo, installed intercooler and boost 12psi since,

my gearbox still as tight as my wife.

The car is 23 years old and never had a single problem except a few oil leak here and there.

They key is simple....shift like a butter, avoid the jack rabbit or drag racing. Beat 'em up in the hi-way as much as you can and the Esprit will never complain. Esprit loves to be roughed in cruising speed.

I do the same thing in my V8.

[Paula&Marcus]

Hi All,

This is just my own personal opinion and experience after many years owning and dealing with Esprits and with their owners ....

- The gearbox actually is not on the strong side, but its also NOT pure junk .... honestly I really like it

- Properly treated you can get happy with it for more than 100k miles whether your Esprit is stock or modified .... IMHO this does not make too much difference.

- You may destroy it within 5 minutes if you treat it totally wrong (with a bone stock engine) .... you even may break the half shafts if you are totally mad ....

- US drivers are more problematic to the gearbox than European drivers, maybe its about shifting behaviour ...

- You should never rush 1st to 2nd gear ... why should you ??? This car is not about drag racing and not about 0-60 times. If you need that, please buy something else.

Apart from that I feel that Craig and Hasusan both hit the nail ! Both are totally right, 100%

Cheers

Marcus

Edited January 27, 2007 by Paula&Marcus

[jetfixr123]

In all fairness...What does a gear case cost.....5-10K big deal...No offense but if a person can't handle a 10 dollar bill while owning a car like this, it's best left for sale on Ebay....

These vehicles are hardly comfortable nor are they realistic for everyday life. 90% of the folks on here have it as a play toy and not a work car....Like I said before you can look at it 2 ways.

1)If you bought an F355-F360 your 30K service alone would cost a gearbox (10K or better, I know)

2)Buy a used Lambo and a rearview mirror or a shock may cost that.?

Yeah, I was concerned about it and read all the posts...Needless to say I installed Johan's computer. At the moment I nailed the accelerator I didn't care what flew out the back...Best investment I have made!

Before I get off my soap box-Here is my rule of thumb.....15% of the value of your car should be set away as an emergency fund for maintenance.

One more thing

The word Vette----AKA Flexible flyer or Viper-of which I would like to have, belong no where in this forum.

The traction control kings just don't fit in with LOTUS---

Leave

Off

The

Unecessary

Stuff

This message was just in good humor.......

[mamovaka]

I don't see why an esprit can't be used as a 10-20k mile a year car.. now I cant imagine putting more than 10k a year on mine..(it isn't my DD) but I don't see why someone can't drive the car.. Maybe not as a workhorse but why not a daily driver?

Hell I know some diablo owners who drive their car every day weather permitting.. Same with some of the late model ferrari's there is better service,

BTW whoever is quoting you over 10k for a 360's 30k service is ripping you off, I have a certified dealer here in philly that does it for 5k. Same with lotus maintenance, if you find yourself a competent mechanic you can get things done MUCH cheaper than at Lotus themselves..

Edited February 2, 2007 by mamovaka

[v8ant]

Hello, I've just bought a v8 esprit after years of porsche ownership, firstly I don't know how familiar you all are with porsches but there have been similar problems with reliability with the 996 engines, so I don't know whether that disproves the large manufacturers are more reliable theory? Secondly, I live in the UK where Formula 1 is king!! we don't really have drag circuits, well a couple but not to the same extent as the USA, also we dont really have lots of long straight roads ideal for drag racing, it all short twisty country lanes, I contantly run out of road over hear!! is this a problem unique to the USA? or a world wide problem?

This is my first ever post so please be gentle with me!!

[extremeesprit]

haha,

The bulk of vehicles driven in The USA have automatic transmissions, hence a higher potential of failures when drivers dont know how to shift.

You wouldnt believe it but 2 years ago at LOG in Alabama Lotus asked us what we would like to see in the new esprit and it was suggested building it with an automatic transmission

Johan

Edited February 2, 2007 by extremeesprit

[Paula&Marcus]

Johan,

Oh my god .... You are kidding, right ?

Who did they ask ? Maybe the wifeys otr the kiddies or maybe the hotel-staff ... ???

Please tell me that this is not true ....

Cheers

Marcus

haha,

The bulk of vehicles driven in The USA have automatic transmissions, hence a higher potential of failures when drivers dont know how to shift.

You wouldnt believe it but 2 years ago at LOG in Alabama Lotus asked us what we would like to see in the new esprit and it was suggested building it with an automatic transmission

Johan

[chstephens]

Johan,

Oh my god .... You are kidding, right ?

Who did they ask ? Maybe the wifeys otr the kiddies or maybe the hotel-staff ... ???

Please tell me that this is not true ....

Cheers

Marcus

Lotus with an automatic? I think I feel sick......

What next, a navigation unit to get around the track?

[andydclements]

Lotus with an automatic? I think I feel sick......

What next, a navigation unit to get around the track?

I can see a reason for an auto box in a Lotus- if the owner who really loves driving one has a bad accident/ other cause and is no longer able to drive a manual box then you're faced with driving an auto version or not driving one.

I hope to never need to do that, but if it happened I'd probably consider it.

Andy