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The Long Old Road Ahead (Time to Strip!)


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Absolutely Awesome Mate :getmecoat: you had me on the edge of my seat there!!

Лотос - для тех которые знают разницу

ENIGMA for those who are paranoid or download one :)

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well Friday saw massive frustration on my part.

Car started first time after my 3 weeks away which was fab....

Unfortunately it went downhill from there.

She was running very lumpy, turned out on idle it was only running on cylinders 3 & 4. With a bit of revving she would pick up a little and run a bit better, but never quite right.

Take her out for a little spin I thougnt, maybe clear her out a little bit.

Did about 3 miles in her, off throttle and feathering, coughing and spluttering like mad, but on medium-full throttle the picked up her feet and ran fine, until letting off the gas again...?

I pulled into my street, where, cough cough splutter, she died for good.

Absolutely no sign of a restart whatsoever.

After sitting for about 20 mins and wondering what I really had done that was so bad I deserved this crap I picked myself up and walked back to the house, picked up some tools and drove back down in the Vectra.

Result was 4 sopping wet plugs.

Let them dry off and spun some fuel out the engine I refitted it all and tried again.

Nothing....

Plugs out, sopping wet again.

Checked EVERY electrical connection to do with the ignition system but all was fine.

Sat back down and waited for Lisa to arrive some time later.

With her cranking the engine I was able to confirm a spark at each plug and lead.

The distributor is rock solid so the timing must still be good.

Thoroughly fed up Lisa towed me backwards up the winding lane to the house. An experience I wont forget for a good while!

Apparently the truck was struggling so she decided to put her foot down... :whistle: We laughed about it after

Threw all our stuff in the Vectra and flew over to Hethel for the weekend to bend a lot of peoples ears over everything, thanks to those who listened politely and didn't fall asleep. :cry:

No on to today.

First port of call, pick up a new coil, although there was a spark I seem to remember it was not a nice blue flash and possibly more resembling a yellow flicker. Just in case though I picked one up and fitted it.....

No change!!!!!! AAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still running on only 2 cylinders on idle, this time though, confusingly, its not running on 1 & 2, with 3 & 4 sopping wet...??? Eh??

This really made no sence at all, if it was thill the same cylinders then I'd happily say there was a problem with 1 of the carbs being set up crap. What confuses me more is that before I went away to work for 3 weeks she ran absolutely perfect, on the lean side of perfect the MOT guy said.

Just a though, maybe something screwy has really happened, what if shes desperately overfueling, not really possible I though being that nothing had changed in the last 3 weeks for it to now be quite so bad?

Well I thought I'd try something.

So I switched off the fuel pump and started her up. Just about got her running, coughing and spluttering away on 2 cylinders. Give her a little gas I thought, splutter splutter splutter she went, but slowly she started to sound like she was running a little better.

After a minute or two of running with the fuel pump turned off she was purring like a kitten.

It seemed like a good 5 minutes before she started to struggle, at which point I switched the pump on for a few seconds. With this, the revs picked up slightly, but then quickly fell back to 2 cylinders again so I switched off the pump and sure enough she started running absolutely fine.

I kept doing this till the engine was fully warmed up and had done a few fan heat cycles and now I can leave the fuel pump switched on with no ill effects at all.

Its definately pointing to the setup of the carbs and I have no doubt in my mind its due to the shoddy, shitty rebuild that was carried out on them.

Theres a specialist locally who is a specialist in carb tuning and setup, so far they have been recommended by 2 seperate people from different garages. I'll call tethem tomorrow and try and book her in. They'll want it all day possibly so I have no idea how much I'll be looking at but its GOT TO BE DONE and I have none of the tools here to be able to do a good job. I've got a spare top to replace the one that was snapped during the rebuild, so if its needed they can use that one.

For now I'll forget about her for a few days and get on with ither things that I need to do, like get the house ready for the wedding photos and sell Lisas StreetKA which is now going VERY cheap if anyone is at all interested.

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Several possibilities:

1. Fuel regulator pressure too high pushing fuel past needle valves.

2. Needle valves seating badly, or valve seats not nipped down.

3. Mains/Idles not nipped down (exactly the same thing happened to me after a 'professional' rebuild...

4. Some kind of binding issue with 'repaired' float

Probably worth draining your plenum, probably a lot of unburnt fuel in there.

Careful how you go, remembering the Esprit reputation for fuel leak fires.

Steve

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The old girl is booked in for Thursday, 9am drop off, all day work apparently.

I've a spare Pressure regulator and 2 x spare carbs so anything should be sort outable I hope.

Now just keeping my fingers crossed I can get her running to take her down. Don't fancy the 5 mile journey backwards tied 6 foot from the arse of a Shogun again! LOL

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Several possibilities:

1. Fuel regulator pressure too high pushing fuel past needle valves.

2. Needle valves seating badly, or valve seats not nipped down.

3. Mains/Idles not nipped down (exactly the same thing happened to me after a 'professional' rebuild...

4. Some kind of binding issue with 'repaired' float

Probably worth draining your plenum, probably a lot of unburnt fuel in there.

Careful how you go, remembering the Esprit reputation for fuel leak fires.

Steve

I Agree with steve

I would check the fuel pressure regulator first.. remove the ali cap on screw at top (if its still fitted) place spanner on top of nut and lossen by 1/4 turn, place screw driver in slot in top of adjuster and unscrew 1 turn. nip up nut, try starting, if no better lossen nut and wind adjuster back 1 turn. It could also be dirt under the needle valve stopping it from seating properly. (just trying to think why its started after three week lay up) possible sediment in tank setling then being pumped into carbs..... don't be too dishartened it sounds like a simple problem that you will easily sort. respect for your fault finding, your on the right track....

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Well I just dropped the old girl off to the tuning place and she's well and truly thrown a strop at me.

Coughing and spluttering all the way there, overfueling like a right bitch!

On the way there the interior fans packed up, which are linked to the engine fans and is the part of the wiring loom that I replaced because all the earths were broken/botched and one cable had brurned through. No siezed fans, earths good all working fab. Have no idea why this would have happened, and now most of the interior is in its going to be a bitch to fault find.

All has been working dandily, so why this now? WHY?

Can't find the second workshop manual anywhere cause everything got tidied away and thats the one I now need to do the wiring.

Lifes f**king sweet as usual! Bloody cars..... :alien::harhar::dizzy::shock::w00t::rofl:

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Hi mate

Yeah was good to meet you both too, although I didn't seem to have time to talk to that many people properly, you get spread a little thin when there so many people!

I do still have a little fight left in me, but why does it always have to be a fight, thats what I want to know!

Just awaiting a call off the garage to say they've cooked the engine. Although I've told them about the problem and asked them not to start work till they've called me cause I want to be there when they are doing their bits.

I just simply don't trust ANYBODY in the motor trade.

May have some good news though, looks like the StreetKa's sold, not 100% yet, but £4k for a 2005 car is not a good price, but its a desperate sellers price!

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Chin up Si,

Hope you get some good news back on the esprit this afternoon, Im sure it will be fine :alien:

Always think the worst and you can only be releaved when the news does not come back that bad!

good luck regards danny

A

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:alien:

Nothing is unfixable, what's the problem.

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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Just got back

Zero mixture control apparenlty....

Zero effort from the garage I'm thinking too....... Its till parked where I left it at 9am this morning and I've had no phone call from him as I requested before he even started on it. He says hes checked the fuel pressure regulator and its all ok.

The guy who rebuilt them has well and truly screwed them over by the looks of it, there is just no other explanation.

Some times they work ok, like before I went away, other times they are like a sack of shit and flood the hell out of the engine, sometimes front carbs, sometimes rear carbs.

Looks like something is sticking inside of them, I have no idea what it could be, there's so many balls, springs, washers jets etc... inside of them, any one of them could be causing the issue and I HAVE NO IDEA.

If I had time to learn then fine you know, have a bash n all, but I don't! Time is the one thing I really have so little of.

I'm not happy just bolting on my spare pair, they are too much of an unknown and the risk of fuel leaking is worrying the hell out of me. I know the tops have been off several times so there's a good chance they'll not seal good at all.

Hey ho.

Not sure where we go from here

So far, 4 companies phoned from across the UK.

Not one can help in my time-scale!

:w00t:

Just about to leave to try and collect the car. Hope she makes it home.....

OK

Home now..... phew...

She's not running 100% on throttle now either and the fact that they did try something is evident from the dirt on the drivers seat!! C**ts!

Oh well, bit more searching to do on the internet now me thinks

Clicky

Everyone I've phoned has said its a no go, too much work on, not willing to take the responsibility of not getting them done it time and missing the wedding etc......

The guy in the above link though has said yes. 2 days turn around @ £40 per carb and he'll reuse the gasket kit thats just been put on them. He wants both sets of carbs to make sure that if any other parts are screwed he can be sure he has the spares required.

I'm SO not sure about this. It seems cheap, the other place I've spoken to wants £150 per carb....

Do I risk it or not, thats the question.... He said they wont be 'factory new' finished but will be as good as he can had clean them. For that price no re-plating of parts, which I'm neither supprised or bothered about!

I could end up with 2 sets of broken carbs though, or worse no carbs back in time at all... He recons I'll have them back by Wednesday.

:alien::harhar::dizzy::shock:

I'm going to think about it tonight, maybe by the morning I'll have decided and then can take them off the car and courier them across to him.....

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Can you take the carbs off the black beauty and just swap them over mate?

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

Lotus Espirt Turbo S3    

Lotus Esprit S4 

Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130

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Unfortunately not dudes.

It's not a turbo car and the carbs are different. Nice thought though!

The more I think about it, the less I want to send them all away, but do I have much choice?

Fuel injection is the future, no wonder the automotive industry binned theses pieces of crap years ago...

If I had more time I wouldn't even be considering rebuilding them, it's just throwing money away and a completely pointless task.

But I NEED this car working...

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Fixed jet carbs (which these are) are infinitely more simple that fuel injection, especially when it stops working properly!

Anyway, sounds to me that you're dealing with idiots. There are no significant wearing parts in the carbs other than the spindles/seals (and maybe the needle valve tips). They just need methodically dismantling, cleaning and assembling. (what, maybe 20 parts per choke?) How can they be 'unrepairable'? Even a hamfisted buffoon would have difficulty achieving that. In reality, there will be one small issue - such as a mis-placed O ring, or ball bearing. Once that has been resolved, they will be fine.

After all you managed to get through your MOT emission test, which is by no means guaranteed on one of these cars.

Don't give up!

cheers Steve

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Si, S'pose your S3 being a turbo and mine not would rule out you borrowing my carbs for the big day?

Mine aint going anywhere for a while and I'm not a million miles away from you.

Turbo vs non turbo probably a problem though.

Just a thought.

"Intellectuals solve problems; geniuses prevent them." Albert Einstein

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They may well be simple and it could just be a misplaced ball bearing or o-ring, but for exaclty that reason there is simply nothing I can do with them. I don't know where ANY of them are supposed to go, hence why I gave up in the first place when a washer fell out of a hole and I had no idea where it came from and never found the corresponding paired one. I soon realised I could screw up big time and that they may never work again. Who'da guessed I'd be in this same situation anyways....!

Cheers for the offer Simon, but as you said, being that the turbo and non turbo carbs are different its a no go. Thanks all the same, very nice thought and offer... :whistle:

Well, I've made my decision.

I will try the other carbs in the morning, if they work and do not leak, they stay. It would be a miracle though as their origin is a complete unknown....

If that fails I will throw the opportunity out to anyone who KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE DOING (this is essential as a fix must be as near as guaranteed as possible)

You will have to be free this weekend with all neccesary equipment, mixture, balancing etc, and on the basis it will cost me £80 to get these carbs rebuilt now, plus £30 at a guess each way for courier, totalling £140. I will put another £100 on top of this for the lucky winner along with a couple of pints, this is to include cleaning and rebuilding of carbs and setting up on the car following reassembly and a quality job MUST be assured....

Watch this space. I will advertise this up seperately tomorrow following the outcome of my attempts first.

I'm desperate now guys and I've had enough!

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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for whats its worth I rebuilt my turbo carbs and they immediately flooded, petrol everywhere!

Pulled them apart about a zillion times. Then remembered I swapped the floats for fresh ones and they were out of spec! I think jamming on the walls of the carb float chamber. Put the old ones back in and all was well.

Robert Costa
1984 Turbo Esprit
Very Black!
2004 Lotus Elise
Quite Green! gone :-(

1977 S1 Esprit, in bits

1998 Lotus Elise S1, Azure Blue
Sydney, Australia

“The parts falling from this car are examples of the finest British craftsmanship”

Recommended procedure before taking on a repair of Lucas equipment: Check the position of the stars,kill a chicken and walk three times clockwise around your car chanting:" Oh mighty Prince of Darkness protect your unworthy servant.."

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Well yesterday saw no mechanical works on the car, but Steve the trimmer came up to finish off the carpets, so that's 1 job knocked on the head. Luckily this meant I had to remove the seats so hopefully that'll help with the wiring trouble, although I have completely lost the workshop manual with the wiring diagrams in…. D'oh…

Yesterday saw 6 hours of intensive wedding shopping which is VERY tiring I can assure you.

Following a fab day and night with Lisa and because she is in work today, I thought I'd have a bash on the car.

A thorough search on the forum found this topic about float setting so I thought I'd have a bash.

Removed the boost pipe and plenum cover, switched on the fuel pump and witnessed fuel happily draining out the trumpets on cylinders 3 & 4… Not a good sign…

I removed the cover and tried adjusting as per the instructions but I could never get the 27mm fuel height required…

Oh well I thought, maybe its close enough, lets have a look at 1 & 2..

Switch on the pump and petrol started pouring out of 3 & 4 again??? Tested the float and valve into a bucket and it does indeed shut the petrol supply off.. must be a shitty new needle that's my only thoughts, or maybe the float is sticking?

Off with the cover, lets have a bash with one of the spares.

Bolted it on, instant fuel level reduction and no more leakage… Hooraaa!! Adjusted the level to the requisite 27mm and headed off to 1 & 2 carb.

Hat off, fuel level about right…. BUT….!! The slapdash repair from the guy who screwed the carbs up in the first place has disappeared. Only a few small fragments of it was remaining sloshing around in the petrol, I can only assume the rest has lodged itself into the many orifices of the carburettor. Not good!

Spare cover number 2 used to replace this now useless cover and with a quick adjustment we now have both carbs holding a steady 27mm fuel height.

Time to start her up…

Quick flick of the key and she sparked into life, a little coughing on application of a light throttle but this seemed to go with the use of a bit of choke.

Take her out for a short drive I thought, 1 ½ hours and ¼ tank of petrol later and I've just got back in.

She's running pretty good, could probably benefit from a little light tuning in the mixture department but she's good to go. I did the entire wedding run as a practice to see how it'd go and it was lush.

Now got a wet and slightly numb bum from sitting on the floor for so long, due to a few holes in the floor that need blocking up and new door seals that are required.

Have no idea where the rest of that shitty repair putty has settled but at the moment its making no real difference. Hope they last, when the honeymoon is over maybe I'll get them professionally refurbished although that's not cheap. Maybe straight into injection? Who knows.

Thanks for the words of advice, they ended up motivating me to achieve a self fix. Its hard work when you get so many knocks, hopefully onwards and upwards now!

A few shots from today :question:

IMG_0519.jpg

IMG_0520-1.jpg

1 week tomorrow and this will not be a photo of a lonely car, it will be bustling with people, horses, video men, photographers and of course the Lovely Lisa :question:

Almost there guys :question:

Edited by Simon350S

Chunky Lover

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Massively glad you percevered and got it sorted. Well done Si.

Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

Lotus Espirt Turbo S3    

Lotus Esprit S4 

Lotus Elise S2 Sport 130

pig_zps6d7342f1.jpg

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Good man Si. Oh, you left your lights on mate...

88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

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