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Running After 10 years!!


kehoeautomotive

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Tom,  Many Many cars used this type of injection and you can find an independent to assist you to get it running, Porsche, Volvo Bmw, Alfa, etc...

 

They are sensitive and need to be adjusted properly. I would get with a local Indy shop like a BMW guy that has seen this all the time. Or join a Porsche or BMW llist where this troubleshooting is onlgoing for someone.

 

Jon

Jon - 1984 Esprit Turbo

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My fuel tanks are waiting for me to find some time to reinstall them but reading this thread has convinced me that I need to tackle the cambelt before I start the car again (I have heard it run, but not for long).  It has almost no miles but it has been well over 2 years since it was installed.  I know of JAE and RD Enterprises in the US and S&J in the UK.  Is any one source better in terms of belt quality?  Are they all coming from the same supplier?  If I am going to do all of the work, I want to make sure it lasts.

Not trying to hijack the thread - just seemed like a good place to ask.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim McLeskey Richmond, VA USA

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Thanks for all the help once again guys! The WUR was not operating and therefore the "warm control pressure" was WAY off. It was stuck from sitting up and sending too much fuel and pressure back to the tank. I took the WUR out, sprayed some cleaners into it, blew it out with compressed air and beat on it with my favorite rock.

It now runs great! I made some adjustments and and fixed a hard start problem when warm (broken connector).

I now want to test the Frequency valve though. What do you all use for a duty cycle meter?

 

Why do the cam belts have to be replaced every two years? Most of the cars the mechanics here tell customers every 5-7 years. Are Lotus belts inferior?

On 2/17/2016 at 05:22, molemot said:

These beasts take you to your limits...be it driving or mechanicking...mine has been doing that to me for 27 years, and it still is.... I suppose there has to be something of the masochist in all of us! Glad to hear that your morale has improved...stick at it...once you get it out on the street going properly, then the fun begins! Barry's right...it's only a car...a bunch of Norfolk types made it; you can fix it!!!! You have the same problem that I had when I first got mine...nobody knew anything about it, and it was all working in the dark. In the end, it will be YOU that's the expert....all the esoteric knowledge will be at your fingertips and you will have the immense satisfaction that only comes from personal achievement. I think you and the car will be having a good summer.....

When I got my Lotus I brought it to the British Car show (250 cars plus) here so I could meet other Esprit owners and learn about them. My Lotus was the ONLY ESPRIT in the entire show! This year there will be two (my buddy's and mine!)

I'm now going to fix the headlights as they went crazy on the test drive. They started winking uncontroably! LOL!

 

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Nice fix! What happens is if not used for a long time and some dampness inside the WUR, the plunger in the diapraghm valve can corrode a little bit and stick. The cleaner likely freed it up.

Lotus didnt specify a time interval for the belts AFAIK, just every 25000 miles.

Not sure if it is relevant but the general interval people use on the Ferrari V8 engines which use the same type of belt is 4 years although there are constant arguments about this on the forums. I would go with 4 years personally.

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I think it is that the cambelt should be changed at a C service. The service interval 6 thousand miles (or six months) and the service order is A B A C. Hence the 2 year/24000 mile requirement.

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1 hour ago, ChrisJ said:

I think it is that the cambelt should be changed at a C service. The service interval 6 thousand miles (or six months) and the service order is A B A C. Hence the 2 year/24000 mile requirement.

Yes you are right, checked again.

2 years seems crazy though. Seems more like a revenue earner for the dealers rather than based on any need. 

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Two years is because of several factors. Firstly, these cars don't do much mileage these days...so a set mileage requirement only can result in very old belts...and age means that the plasticisers in the rubber mix decay and the belt bcomes less flexile and more prone to cracking and failure. Also, a large number of these cars are no longer professionally maintained..;you've already found how hard it is to get anyone to put a spanner on one, and the knowledge base about them, professionally, has decayed too. Thus accurately seting the belt tension is a bit hit and miss.... so the concensus was that replacing the belt every 2 years will prevent failure from incorrect  tension....as long as it's somewhere near, they will last two years! My cambelt snapped very shortly after I bought the car in 1998....it came with a service record, which was obviously fake...as when I dismantled the cambelt tensioner it had self-evidently never been touched since the factory assembled it..and the car had supposedly just had it's second cambelt change, it had done just over 50,000 miles.

Service life of rubberry components is under scrutiny in the aviation world, as well.  Some years ago there was a crash in the UK that happened after the failure of a newly fitted engine, in an old piston engined aircraft. This engine was new out of the box....but it had sat in the box for a long time. It turned out that a rubber diaphragm in the carburetter had failed...it had sat on the engine, without contact with the fuel, for so long that the plasticisers had given up and it cracked at a most inopportune time. We have also had a recent air crash of a Hawker Huinter ex -military jet fighter, resulting in  loss of life at an air display. This has resulted in an in-depth examination by the Civil Aviation Authority of the maintenance procedures on such ex-military aircraft. They don't have a Certificate of Airworthiness, but fly under a Permit to Fly scheme, and all the maintenance requirements laid down for these aeroplanes assume use by the military, with loads of flying hours.... and the procedures to be carried out are expressed in terms of flying hours. Now they are being operated in the civilian world, they fly far fewer hours...and time becomes a significant factor. This actual crash does not seem to have been as a result of this, afaik, but it has served to draw attention to the possible problem; this has resulted in the CAA promulgating a service requirement that may effectively prohibit these aeroplanes from flying...it would need proof of replacement of such rubbery bits on engines and fuel systems...and there aren't any spares, and overhaul of jet engines is both prohibitively expensive and unavailable...as these engines have been out of use by the military for years, and the overhaul facilities can no longer exist. Much the same sort of thing is why we change the cambelt every two years!! I would also recommend changing the fuel hoses, too...I use Goodridge stainless steel reinforced hoses and try to change them when I change the cambelt. If the hoses are left empty for any length of time, the rubber perishes and they can leak...and the carburetters are just on top of the distributor...so any leak in this area is often catastrophic. This can be averted by changing the hoses...and the pump diaphragm in the carburetter acceleration pump, too.  

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Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Good post but I believe that if the belt is correctly tensioned (I use the proper gauge) and the tensioner is rebuilt each time, then 4 years seems sensible to me.

Regards fuel hoses, these are even more critical on these cars than others because they have a high-pressure recirculating fuel system which uses rubber hoses. Most cars use either metal or semi-rigid nylon pipes after the fuel pump in high-pressure systems. Add to that increasing ethanol in fuel which attacks rubber. Changing the hoses every 2 years seems really erring on the side of caution though!

My own car almost went up, the previous owner had the fuel return hose from the regulator perish and come off when he started the car in his garage. The only reason he noticed it was he forgot something and went back into the house then noticed a big pool of fuel under the car! Very scary.

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Are Lotus belts inferior? I would say no, because the chance of getting an actual belt made by Lotus, as opposed to Gates, Dayco, etc. is slim to none. 

RD Enterprises is about fifteen minutes from my house, and you are well served buying the appropriate toothed belt from them (Ray)--however, many people also swear by the "Gates Blue Belt" sold by JAE, but I'm not sure it fits our Bosch injected cars. Do a search here or at Lotustalk or the Yahoo! turboesprit forum; there are many posts regarding its proper tension, and the attendant theories about that belt.

Cheers,

Scott

1986 Esprit HCI (Bosch-injected)

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No belts would be made by Lotus. They would source them from a belt manufacturer. 

The early small-toothed belts are a non-standard size though, but there is a standard size which is a couple of mm narrower which many people use, I have one on my car. 

The original later large-tooth belts are Fenner Hi-Torque Drive. They are a standard size. 

Not sure about even later ones, such as the Blue Belt. I remember Lotus did a 100,000 mile test of a cam belt at some point but not sure what type of belt it was.

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sound advice ;)

And while changing that cambelt, remember to change the tensioner as well. Not much idea in changing the cambelt if not also the tensioner. And not much idea in using a longlife cambelt, if the tensioner is as usual.

Remember there seems to be various qualities in those bearings. I am sure someone else will chime in here about that.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

Nobody does it better - than Lotus ;)

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The scene outside my window today. Two Lotus today. Just had a guy call me who saw them and has another one that has not run in years with a broken timing belt. I told him to bring it by. Both of these cars are running like tops. I was able to graph the duty cycle on my freq valve with an old snap on meter. Made a bunch of adjustment using that and a gas analyzer. Lots of fun figuring it all out. I've learning A LOT in a very short amount of time. Tomorrow is timing belt day at the Lotus Spa.

image.jpeg

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I just changed the timing belt on the Stevens lotus today. What a pain in the ass! It took me 4 damn hours. Now I have to do the other one. Gonna be at work several hours after closing. Hope I can do the other one faster. Grrrr....

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17 hours ago, lotus4s said:

4 hours is actually pretty good for your first attempt and nice work on figuring out the fuel issues! :thumbup:

Thank you! The other one went much faster! Since I did the other I see there are some missing spacer washers on the Stevens. Someone must have left them off in the past. I repulled the triangular bracket and corrected the problem.  Also the previous mechanic missed the stabbing on the distributor shaft by a tooth on the Guiario so i fixed that too. (Man made problems are the worst and I found two in one day.) I installed two different belts, one gates nitrile belt and one JAE blue belt. I replaced the tensioners too.

 

So who has a counter lever burroughs gauge!?! I tried my best to use this crappy spring gauge one of the mechanics here loaned me. POS and did not fit well.

 

I'm replacing all the vacuum lines and some emission tubing and putting the air cleaner/ covers etc back on and declaring this car done. Fixed the CIS, tuned up the car, changed all the fluids, rebuilt the brake MC and calipers, tires, suspension bushings, motor mounts, clutch, fixed ALL electrical (even got all the warning lights working), and replaced the belts. So stick a fork in the Guiraro, will be finished tomorrow.

I have another Esprit being towed in. Has not run in twelve years and has a broken timing belt. I will pull the engine to see how many valves it bent. I like how I can test a lot of the CIS system with the engine not running or even in the car. It looks like the head has shim buckets to adjust the valves on these engines... I hate those.... my Rabbit has that.. sucks. I plan on getting the valves/engine parts/head gasket set from JAE unless there are any better suggestions. I like JAE because it's been a one stop shop for me. Very helpful crew.

 

I will start a new thread and take more photos when I get my hands on the new Esprit! Thanks for all the help once again guys!

 

 

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OOPS! Seems I never sent this... it was in answer to the query as to whether the  Esprit engine was a non- interference engine....

No...it's not...but you can get lucky. It all depends on where the cam was when the belt snapped! I was lucky and no contact happened. Had it been in a slightly different position then I would have had an anchor. Back in 1998 I knew nothing about these engines, and there was no internet to give information.... I was very careful that nothing I did in replacing the belt would make things worse. A check of the valve clearances showed they were in spec., and once I had fitted the new belt I did a compression check and that was good, too. In later years, I had the cambelt slip some teeth and that resulted in 8 bent inlet valves!! 

To continue...if you have a broken cambelt, hope that the exhaust valves haven't bent as they are sodium cooled and cost a whole bunch of moolah....S&J have them at £59.98 EACH....!!! that'll be £575.80 inc. vat for the set, Sir......

Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been." - Albert Einstein

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Congrats on the fixing, you'll need a LOTUS banner in front of the shop soon!

Something I'm wondering about the blue belts is when was the last production run? Are they 10 ears old? These are not common for sure. As for the 2 years thing,  I have a tendency to stretch it a bit and I think the environment and use can have an effect.

Good luck with the next project.

Here is my project but that's another subject...

...while the black car sleeps in the dark!

WP_20151228_004.jpg

Something I learned about cars or planes, it all works until it doesn't anymore...sometime there is no way around it!

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