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Barrykearley

Euro question - 23rd June

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.......and me. The 'Common Market' was a good idea in the beginning when it was just what its name suggested, but then the snouts started going in the troughs and we all know the rest, :angry: .

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I am so anti-EU.

In fact i find the whole debate really annoying, because the pro-EU argument is entirely based on untruths which can be dismissed in one sentence.

The "free trade" thing is a complete myth as anyone who runs a small business which exports will know. In fact we find it much easier to sell into the US then the EU because EU trade requires extra paperwork, VAT processing and 2 sets of accounts to be kept. It involves "EC sales lists", "Intrastat" and countless other paperwork. The way in which VAT works within the EU means the UK loses at least £1 billion a year in revenue, something I dont even see UKIP mentioning. The EU also facilitates tax avoidance by corporations, another figure which is overlooked.

There is no danger in coming out, we will end up worst-case with the status of the USA, Canada, and the myriad of other countries which trade perfectly happily and mostly without tarrifs with the EU. But in reality we are 95% likely to be in a free trade area still.

Even if you love East Europeans, the whole of Europe is changing rapidly and more than ever we need to be able to control our borders. I really think Europe is about to sink into the mire, but if we are out we have a good chance of prospering, we are in a perfect location and time zone for world trade and are well respected by the growing Asian economies.

I do think we will stay in though, people are generally incapable of seeing the big picture and will believe the lies. Anyone who votes to stay in is gullible in the extreme, they have been conned by the politicians and corporations.

 

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We have slipped significantly from the common market into the beast which is now controlling us. I don't think there are any risks from exit - nor any downsides.... Bring it on. We are the 5th most prosperous country in the world according to the news today - hmmmm why oh why is all the pro euro rhetoric being thrown around. We are strong and will continue to be so after brexit.

its going to be interesting - if we exit - I think the whole EU will change massively - Merkels grip will loosen and the Greeks will wish they got out when they were sold down the river.

add to that the real chance that mr trumps going strong on getting the keys to the white house.... Well the news is going to be interesting. Basically it looks like everyone is fed up of the status quo in every country.

we should never fear change - change is indeed good

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2 minutes ago, Frickin_idiot said:

Boris Johnson is campaigning to leave.

This should get interesting.

 

 

 

 

Crikey thats unexpected and should liven things up a bit !

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Let's have a bit of Bogo !!!!! Out we come......

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This is really annoying. I would love to tell the Eurocrats to stick their nose up a dead bear's bum.....but I have a vested interest in the status quo; leaving the EU would screw me up arseholes to breakfast time.... and give me no other option but to change allegiance. Something I have resisted fiercely for over a decade.

Realistically, a vote to leave the EU will probably...if history is a guide..result in "Another Chance to Get It Right" after a brief delay. A vote to stay in will be the end of the matter for several generations...

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I think one of the problems is that throughout our membership of the Common Market and the EU, we, the UK, have played with a distinctly straight bat. We've followed the letter of the law laid down and every other country in Europe has taken advantage and taken the piss. Well, I'm sick of footing the bill for your party so you can all just go and take a flying jump into a quarry. Bye bye.

Interesting points on Andrew Marr show today to Nicola Sturgeon: (Paraphrasing here, not literal quotes).

AM: So, if the UK votes out as a whole, but Scotland votes to stay in, will that trigger a new independence referendum Nicola?

NS: Aye, too right it will, Scotland will maintain its place in Europe and the people of Scotland will not accept the rest of the UK pulling them out.

AM: Interesting. So you do realise that will mean you will have to join the EU as a full EU member

NS: Aye, that would be our right

AM: So, as a full member in your right and committed to ever closer union, you'd be obliged to take the Euro then. Have fiscal oversight imposed from Brussels, oh, and of course, you'd need to be a member of Shengen so there would be a Scotland/England border with checks.

NS: ....................................................................................................................................................... (the sound of silence as she gurns away and refuses to answer!)

Oh, I fear the next 18 months could hold some very funny and farcical moments. I have a feeling in my water that the vote will be tight and we just might vote to leave.

But then, if Scotland does vote to stay, and then votes for independence, oh my, now that is going to be interesting as it opens up a whole new different settlement with the rUK and with oil at $35 a barrel I'm, not sure the SNP would win that independence vote either, and surely two losses in succession in a relatively quick time-frame is a clear Statement from the citizens of Scotland that independence is off the agenda. Sort of kills off her party's one goal and I'm not sure she, or the SNP, is really up for that fight. Indeed, just look at this quote from the BBC news site today:

Former SNP deputy leader and veteran independence campaigner Jim Sillars is among those campaigning for Scotland to leave the EU.

On the BBC's Sunday Politics Scotland programme, he said: "During the 2014 independence referendum the European Union told us to get stuffed. They weren't prepared to accept Scotland becoming a new member state.

"So I see no reason why I should got to bat for an organisation that told us to get stuffed in 2014, and if the UK remains in membership, will tell us to get stuffed in the second independence referendum. We don't owe them anything.

"But I've got more fundamental objections than that. It is a profoundly undemocratic organisation."

So, interesting times ahead no matter what the outcome.  But I would love to be a spider on the walls of power in Europe if we vote to leave. £55m a day will leave a huge hole in the EU's budget and will buy an awful lot if spent / invested in the UK on our infrastructure, business, training, schools etc.

Hmmm........

4 minutes ago, molemot said:

Realistically, a vote to leave the EU will probably...if history is a guide..result in "Another Chance to Get It Right" after a brief delay. A vote to stay in will be the end of the matter for several generations...

Yes - that's what the SNP told us about the independence vote in Scotland. But when they lost the vote of a generation, suddenly, a generation was classified as a timescale in months as opposed to years...  The victor does not always get to write the future.

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Just asking a question - we pay out £55 million a day - but we do get a percentage back? (CAP, grants, etc..), anyone know what the percentage is?

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The Eurocrats will simply answer that question with a load of utter bollox and smoke...... We get loads of money from trade blah blah blah - we've been used as a cash cow for years - and now is our chance to it to stop.

we pay out loads in membership fees. We get a pittance, headpat back.

we are paying benefits to families and kids in other European countries - they don't want that to stop - gravy train........ How much money in tax credits and benefits payments is going out of our country - it would not surprise me if it was a huge amount similar to the "membership" fee. 

A real cash simple answer to the above we will never ever get......Christ - the result would be 99% out if they did.

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3 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I think one of the problems is that throughout our membership of the Common Market and the EU, we, the UK, have played with a distinctly straight bat. We've followed the letter of the law laid down and every other country in Europe has taken advantage and taken the piss.

This is absolutely true. The French used an EU clause concerning strategic national assets to ring-fence virtually all their large companies against takeover. For example Danone yoghurt is classed as a nationally strategic entity.

The UK followed the rules and only has Rolls-Royce Aero Engines and a few other companies defined in this way against takeover. So we have sold ports, airports, defence companies, utilities and goodness knows what else to overseas. The biggest personal impact of this was Racal Defence. They used to be big in this area and many of my friends had jobs there. Thales took them over and promptly closed down the UK operation.

 

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Found some data. In 2013 we gave € 39.7m per day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks of the year total some € 14,5bn,

We got back €6.3bn. So we get back about 40% of what we put in. € 3.1bn of what we got back went to farming for food production / land subsidies.

Sounds like a great deal to me. I wonder where the other €8.3bn goes.  Hmmmm, no wonder the Germans want us to stay as they'll end up making up the shortfall.....  and no wonder the Eastern European countries don't want us to change what we pay.

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To the official figure needs to be added:

VAT Carousel Fraud (estimated at £ 2 billion a year)

Loss of corporation tax to countries such as Luxembourg £2 billion.

Loss of tax owing to the "Dutch Sandwich" ruse: Nobody knows but a lot.

The worst thing is the EU could do something to reduce or eliminate these figures but never have.

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8.3billion !!!! What an utter waste - but that doesn't include the money that's being filtered out of our country in benefits - all of which are being used in other countries to improve their economy.....

Gosh have we anything to fear??

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35672158

is Osborne for real ??? I thought he was a pro Union guy...... This is just a huge headline for vote leave and we can have an £8b surplus by not throwing money at the EU !!

Out out out

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A well educated view that ?

Scotland with the euro - and a great big fence with border guards...... Hey they could get Donald Trump to invest in that one

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