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Barrykearley

Euro question - 23rd June

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54 minutes ago, Neal H said:

 

I won’t march or burn cars in protest, or withhold my Council Tax, I’ll just cast my protest vote at the next general election.

Certainly agree with that however not sure who deserves the protest vote as likely to be all the same people standing. We need a good clear out and some fresh faces on both sides

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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7 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

I’m afraid this is the typical left wing liberal response that’s all too often trotted out.

our own democracy is in real danger of being subverted. The propaganda during WWII is mild in comparison to the current situation. 

I would suggest you look at the underlying issues by which certain groups are trying to undermine a massive democratic vote. Millions of hero’s died for our very right to democracy and home rule.

sit back and reflect

Those are two completely different issues which I struggle to understand how you are conflating.

You say we are losing WW3, a conflict between us and Germany in response to a largely discredited far right and clearly BS website. Your response to me calling you out on it, is your umbrage at our INTERNAL democratic process. 

The only reason I continue to post and interact with you is that as Scott says, I want to show our international participants to this board that we don’t all share your views. 

 

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7 hours ago, Neal H said:

As soon as Mrs May gave parliament the option of voting down a no-deal Brexit, she removed any incentive that the EU may have had to give any concessions. She knew what she was doing. Her ‘deal’ will get heavily defeated (again) - just as she expects - and they’ll then vote to reject no-deal followed by the vote to postpone from 29th March, which takes us inevitably to a second referendum.

I don’t think it’s incompetence, neither the government or parliament has ever wanted to leave.

I won’t march or burn cars in protest, or withhold my Council Tax, I’ll just cast my protest vote at the next general election.

Finally, we return to adult, respectful and less extreme views. 👍

I don’t believe in conspiracy. May never wanted the free vote, she fought it and fought it but was legally required to give it in the end. Had she avoided it, the deal would have been signed shortly after the Chequers meeting in July last year. 

The impass is a lack of any form of agreement in parliament. Whether or not that is a democratic issue depends upon you point of view, I happen to think it is an issue. On the other hand my perspective is that given that no plan existed at the time of the referendum then having an implementation referendum isn’t a bad solution (as it restores that democratic problem - by virtue of being democratic). The argument that a second vote is undemocratic is rather like trying to argue against the definition of democracy. 

In any case, we’ll reintegrate the EU within the next 20 years (without the perks). The younger generations will see to that. And indeed with 2m more young voters and 2m fewer older ones, a new referendum now (if there was one - which is far from clear) could see to that sooner. But that is democracy.

 

 

Edited by JG220

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I don’t think a second referendum is the answer, I think it will prove even more divisive. It will probably produce a narrow result on a lower turnout and what will that prove? What makes you think parliament will respect the outcome any more than they respected the outcome of the first one if it’s another narrow leave result?

One thing we can all agree on is it’s a mess! In my opinion it’s a mess caused by parliament’s refusal to accept the democratic will of the electorate.

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@JG220 and @scotty435 - frankly you are entitled to your opinions and to post here, I have never suggested otherwise in my own words. James, i did find your dig rather childish as I was only playing back your own words to you. 

Scotty, humour, or attempted humour,  during dark days is intwined with and in the British pysche. 

Barry I am sure was not talking about "war" in the physical sense, it was a metaphor for the battle that is going on right now. In the same way you talk about a class war, or a political war etc. If you actually look at the EU right now then there is a major political war going on between left and right and the speaches and verbage coming out from the leaders of Spain, Italy, France and Hungary are clearly indicative of darker times.  

Speaking of our European friends, I'd love to hear what they think about the reasonabless of the Spanish Governments behaviour towards Gibralter, her citizens and her sovereign terrirtory. Or from the Irish on their attempts to rip NI from the UK and the recent seizure of NI fishing boats and crew and their subsequent trial. What about Macron's statements and approach and his determination to punish the UK for leaving and whilst we are at lets not forget it was the French govt who betrayed us 3 times over joining the common market. What was the old saying, with Friends like these who needs enemies   I'm sure people reading this are mostly smart enough to realise that the anger is directed at the Politicians and not normal people who drive Lotus or any other types of cars 

I do find that there are a very small number of consistently the same individuals who seem to take pride in being the forums censorship board or equivalent of Mary Whitehouse. Well if you don't appreciate my attempt at humour at times to diffuse what is a frankly fraught situation then tough. Either don't read them or just move on. It's not hard to do and will reduce your stress levels.

I'll not comment any further on this.

 

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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You only need to turn on the news to see the disgusting way this is all panning out regarding politicians behaviours towards an open democracy. 

The old arguement about voter numbers is a liberal leftist distraction. The vote has been had. A democracy should enact that decision.

after that - I have absolutely no problem with another vote in a few years time - but you must implement the will of the people. Otherwise - frankly what is the point of even holding an election?

maybe North Korea hold the key to the secret

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Only here once

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Wars are all political, economic and electronic now not with bullets. Too much money owed all over the place.  I think it’s safe to say we (or at least I do) love and respect our european people, my father was Italian and my grand father was in-turned.  It’s the political and economic elite we’re all getting frustrated with not implementing the will of the majority.

With frustration comes extremity, unfortunately.  

 

 

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I like the idea of withholding council tax as a protest

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All that will do is suspend your entitlement to pay monthly and the entire year becomes due in one hit.

welcome to control


Only here once

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11 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

All that will do is suspend your entitlement to pay monthly and the entire year becomes due in one hit.

welcome to control

At that point I would take them to the ECJ. 😆😆😆😆 I’m sure they would give me a grant for that!

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14 minutes ago, LotusFella said:

At that point I would take them to the ECJ. 😆😆😆😆 I’m sure they would give me a grant for that!

Do it either before March 29th or you might not have access to the ECJ.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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51 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Do it either before March 29th or you might not have access to the ECJ.

Wouldn’t need to because we would be out. 

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So Tony Blair has been advising Macron on how to keep the UK in the EU,just imagine how he would have reacted to an ex Tory prime minister interfering in that way over Iraq!!

Now the EU are demanding 13.9 billion to extend Brexit😡


hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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23 hours ago, pete said:

So Tony Blair has been advising Macron on how to keep the UK in the EU,just imagine how he would have reacted to an ex Tory prime minister interfering in that way over Iraq!!

I'd pay good money to see that b45tard in the dock. :ermm:


Cheers,

John W

http://jonwatkins.co.uk

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Well Cox just killed the deal.

so it’s now either hard brexit or no Brexit. 

I’m going to say to probability of the later is slightly ahead of the former. Probably 51.9%  vs 48.1%

joking aside we’re heading for an extension aren’t we (at about £1b a month) 80% certain?, a GE 60% certain and maybe another referendum, 50:50?

 

 

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Failed again.  

If no deal is taken off the table tomorrow then the Government is not representing the people.  Expect civil unrest, yellow jacket style.

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17 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Assuming May loses this evening, the next vote tomorrow will almost certainly block a no-deal Brexit.

Thats effectively a vote to ignore the referendum result.

Brexit will be dead because our last remaining negotiating chip will be discarded. The EU must be laughing their socks off because their position is assured. All they need to do is to refuse to negotiate any more and we cant leave.

I am not sure what time the vote on a no-deal is tomorrow but at that time the whole democratic system in the UK ends.

The problem with having a vote now is the bullying from the government and remainers painting such dogma gloom that they will wear down people who will give up and vote to remain.  God I hope not!  I waivered a few months ago but now feel so furious at our politicians on all side effectivitive making our negotiating position impossible.

 

Just tell them to F**k off we will not be bullied or walked over, and no deal!

 

I will be telling my local mp that I will be withholding my council tax in protest. 

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No deal gets rejected tomorrow
Extension request gets voted on Thursday
EU forces extension to the end of the year (and that the UK take part in the European elections?)
In the interim, labour seek to get a customs union deal through the now empowered parliament, resulting in stalemate 
Forces a GE, which results in both parties putting a referendum in their manifestos
Referendum rejects brexit because its a colossal waste of time and money. 

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No one seems to be mentioning how much the UK will need to pay for any extension. Varying estimates seem to be about 1 Billion a month to 15 Billion a year.

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I take no satisfaction from agreeing that will happen and that I predicted it would several pages back in this thread.

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I think a second referendum is now almost inevitable, it’s the only route from this point.

I also think a second referendum is a really bad idea!

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57 minutes ago, march said:

No one seems to be mentioning how much the UK will need to pay for any extension. Varying estimates seem to be about 1 Billion a month to 15 Billion a year.

Yes they’re acting like the Mafia!

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