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Barrykearley

Euro question - 23rd June

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3 hours ago, gregs24 said:

If you had read my post, I specifically said that there were similarly unhelpful terms used to describe brexiteers. Competing as to who used the worst terms is ludicrous. 

I had read your post and I actually agreed with a lot of it. The bit I took exception too was your point about the particular term you referenced being deeply insensitive given the terms used against leavers. I struggled to see that point and still do.

The main issue for me is that certain people in the Remain camp are just refusing to accept the result and they continue to moan about it. Incessantly. 

@CHANGES is spot on. It is time for us ALL to respect the decision and move on together in a positive manner to make the best of it. If we do, then we have a good chance of succeeding. The reason we are where we are now is that people have bitterly fought against the result for 3 years. We have had a myriad of underhand tactics to try to reverse it. We have had three years of our negotiating position being undermined and during that time of discourse internally the EU has responded by mocking us, bullying us and trying to subvert our democratic right.

They succeeded in overturning key referendums in Ireland and the Netherlands but somehow, we battled through and we achieved our goal. With absolutely no thanks to Remain.

So please do forgive me when I say enough is enough. Stop undermining the country's position. Stop talking us down. And get behind making a success of it 

But if you really do feel that the term Remoaner in the face of all of this is deeply insensitive then thank your lucky stars you weren't on the Leave side. Your sensitivities would have been shredded.

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6 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

£6.99 for a 50p piece!

Who makes them? Porsche perhaps....

More like the Labour mint :D 

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Caught between a rock and a hard place in a catch 22 situation, So its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Your damned if you do, but your damned if you don't so shut your cock!!!!!!!!!!!

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12 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I had read your post and I actually agreed with a lot of it. The bit I took exception too was your point about the particular term you referenced being deeply insensitive given the terms used against leavers. I struggled to see that point and still do.

The main issue for me is that certain people in the Remain camp are just refusing to accept the result and they continue to moan about it. Incessantly. 

@CHANGES is spot on. It is time for us ALL to respect the decision and move on together in a positive manner to make the best of it. If we do, then we have a good chance of succeeding. The reason we are where we are now is that people have bitterly fought against the result for 3 years. We have had a myriad of underhand tactics to try to reverse it. We have had three years of our negotiating position being undermined and during that time of discourse internally the EU has responded by mocking us, bullying us and trying to subvert our democratic right.

They succeeded in overturning key referendums in Ireland and the Netherlands but somehow, we battled through and we achieved our goal. With absolutely no thanks to Remain.

So please do forgive me when I say enough is enough. Stop undermining the country's position. Stop talking us down. And get behind making a success of it 

But if you really do feel that the term Remoaner in the face of all of this is deeply insensitive then thank your lucky stars you weren't on the Leave side. Your sensitivities would have been shredded.

It would be nice to move on but I don't think that is reality. There will be a small group forever vocal. We did after all have many many years of complaining about being in the EU until we got the referendum. That's just the way it is here.

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21 minutes ago, 100th_Idiot said:

We did after all have many many years of complaining about being in the EU until we got the referendum. That's just the way it is here.

There’s been a creep right from day 1 towards a full United States of Europe. There was a treaty signed at the end of WW2 which agreed the border of Europe would extend no further east. It seems ever since the EEA this has been utterly ignored and the Russians, whom without their assistance in WW2 Hitler would probably have been victorious, set up as the panto villains.

We the British people have never had a say over the continued signing away of our sovereignty and rights to self rule. This has been done by political parties of all colours upto now.

We are probably sat in the most interesting  part of history since the late 1920s right now. The rise of the nazis, the Cold War and the lessons which clearly should have been learned from these dire moments in history appear to be forgotten.


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I do believe @Barrykearley that the unchecked march of the EU across Europe will in the future be a major talking point in history.  

What started out as a collaboration over trade has morphed into a Federalist Movement that is consuming 27 countries. It is eroding national identities and it is enforcing rules that people have not voted for.

I wonder. If this was the premise of a Lucas film whom would the audiences be rooting for? The Empire of the EU or the small band of resistance fighters? Granted our leader, BoJo is more Jaja Binks than Han Solo but hey, that side won eventually.

I'd be happy to shut the fook up and just get on with the job in hand. Unfortunately, I fear the incessant whining is some way away from dying down.

In the mean time I'm focusing on doing my job well. Helping my employer to succeed. And enjoying life in the UK whilst it still remains united, even if that is a tenuous united.


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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43 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

There’s been a creep right from day 1 towards a full United States of Europe. There was a treaty signed at the end of WW2 which agreed the border of Europe would extend no further east. It seems ever since the EEA this has been utterly ignored and the Russians, whom without their assistance in WW2 Hitler would probably have been victorious, set up as the panto villains.

We the British people have never had a say over the continued signing away of our sovereignty and rights to self rule. This has been done by political parties of all colours upto now.

We are probably sat in the most interesting  part of history since the late 1920s right now. The rise of the nazis, the Cold War and the lessons which clearly should have been learned from these dire moments in history appear to be forgotten.

Slightly orthogonal to the point I was making about being divided and having a core of remain supporters that will always be complaining just as we had a core of anti EU supporters that didn't stop complaining. There will be those that support further integration and will sincerely believe in that goal. We have to accept they will never stop.

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I absolutely agree with you here @100th_Idiot. There were political defendants even after WW2 of the nazi regime. This has only recently been criminalised in many ways. 

the social experiment is over by the looks of it. I for one will be expecting to see the rise of more countries wishing to have their own freedoms once more. Politicians and leaders come and go as part of democracy. But the EU project by its definition is about centralised control and snuffing out democracy as part of the conceived “greater good”

my point remains - we are in pivotal historic times - where it appears we have already forgotten the lessons of history 


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There is an interesting couple of documentaries on at the moment of Ed Balls in euroland looking at the rise of right wing extremism in Europe.

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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How come Leo Varadkar has become the spokesperson for the EU, issuing threats to us. Surely has more to lose than most and might not even be in power for much longer

If the EU as a whole is thinking the same as him then j can see no deal back on the table

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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3 hours ago, gregs24 said:

Well the incessant whining to leave for the last 47 years never stopped from some quarters, so I wouldn't hold your breath !

I do believe you're exagerating but we're use to that :)

I think you'll find that the whining to leave really started when the common trading bloc decided it wanted to be so much more than just that. Indeed, we had around 12 years of whining before we joined, in particular from the French, who tried to do everything possible to keep us out!  Since we joined they often whined about us being in there as we actually brought a lot of balance and a modicum of common sense to the debate.

Whine away. It won't change anything for the next few years but if it makes you happy then hey, keep going...


Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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You should be used to constant whining by now,you have the no 1 whiner

"I want another referendum for Scotland'"


hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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19 minutes ago, pete said:

You should be used to constant whining by now,you have the no 1 whiner

"I want another referendum for Scotland'"

oh please, not on here too...

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

 

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

 

Whine away. It won't change anything for the next few years but if it makes you happy then hey, keep going...

I wasn't aware that I was whining, merely expressing an opinion that people on both sides of the argument are capable of it.

Your position on the brexit debate is clear and I have no intention of telling you mine (if I even have one) as it adds nothing to the discussion. Enjoy your 'victory' which is sadly how many people from both sides view it - lets hope for your sake that you gain more than you lose, because you will surely experience both.

 

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3 hours ago, pete said:

How come Leo Varadkar has become the spokesperson for the EU, issuing threats to us. Surely has more to lose than most and might not even be in power for much longer

If the EU as a whole is thinking the same as him then j can see no deal back on the table

I don't think his threatening words regarding fisheries were on behalf of the EU rather Eire. Sadly he was only responding to the equally puerile rhetoric coming out of our own PM. 

Fortunately the real negotiations are carried out by intelligent trained people you have mostly never heard of rather than the political gesturing from the figureheads. Varadkar is only playing to Irish voters in the same way Boris was with his hard line gesturing. Negotiations always require compromise, not threats, to be completed, which is what will happen.

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Yeah yeah - of course they have the upper hand.

Germany are now in recession and they will need unrestricted access to our car and white goods buyers. Any reduction in their market sales and it’ll be an absolute nightmare for their balance sheet. On the plus side though - they will undoubtedly need to cough up even more money for the vanity EU project if they wish it to continue.

lets just sit at the sidelines and watch the impending implosion


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It should hard;y be news that the EU will try to get a deal that's best for them.  Likewise, the UK should try to get a deal that's best for the UK.  The Grauniad article reads like initial position setting for the EU.


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13 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Ireland and Varadkar in particular have been spouting off for a few months now. I actually think it is because they realise that if it does not go there way the Irish economy is totally fecked.

spot on. time we put them in their place

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So Nissan have said that if the eu put tariffs on car exports they will shut their plants in france and spain and double down in the uk where they believe they can sell 1 in 5 of  cars in uk

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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4 hours ago, pete said:

So Nissan have said that if the eu put tariffs on car exports they will shut their plants in france and spain and double down in the uk where they believe they can sell 1 in 5 of  cars in uk

Perfectly sensible solution. After all the German cars will be too expensive for us. The French and Spanish will be in a huff and not want to sell to us until we let them eat our fish so there will be no Renaults, Seats, Peugeot's etc - thank god lol....

Everyone will be driving around in Skyline GTR's built in Sunderland - wye aye man!  Super. Fantastic. Smashing. Job done lol!

In all seriousness, I have no doubt that all sorts of weird and wacky rumours will emerge. But hopefully we'll get some of  these over the line.

Just be positive. Think "can do" rather than "can't do". Think "we can make this work" rather than "I'm gonna scupper it" etc.

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Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate.  Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies!        

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hindsight: the science that is never wrong

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