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Barrykearley

Euro question - 23rd June

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A redeployment of folks whom were probably in place to send bundles of cash to the EU

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19 hours ago, DaveyT said:

Not sure on the provenance of this info.....

Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria

but I wouldn't be surprised...

Not sure its that accurate as Dyson moved out of Europe without an EU loan specifically to avoid EU tariffs.

Ford moved their Dagenham Plant to Poland (Not Turkey) with an EU Grant of £30 million. Laying off 5000 workers over 5 years (So they didn't have to announce 5000 lost jobs in one go and tell the truth about our Govt paying Ford Via the EU to lay people off and move plants).

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4 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

Deal? 

I voted leave. I can remember the government propaganda that was delivered through my door - and voted on that basis.

out means out - an end to tariffs and an end to EU meddling in our economy 

We've never joined the USA, or many other countries, but they "meddle" in just the same way that the EU does & will continue to do: If you want to trade with them/ use $ etc then it gives the other countries a say in what happens here. So, if we leave the EU completely, firms based here in the UK will still need to work to many of the EU regs if they want their output to be sold in the EU, the difference is now that we'll have no voice when it comes to what those regs look like, just as we have no voice over the way USA regs are formed.

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Well I have just come in from feeding the cows. The last two times I have had BBC Radio 2 on: The first time they had someone who wanted to remain who was openly laughing and deriding the person who wanted to leave claiming that only old farts wanted to Leave and would never protest because they could not do anything without their zimmer frames and would never leave their little bungalows.  And todays' little BBC interview was with (I think) an MP who called Leave campaigners idiots and liars, who then got upset when the Leave 'person' being interviewed said she was getting hysterical. And I have come in to find Corbyn calling Theresa May a 'stupid woman' at PMQ.

The BBC and our political elite (if they can be called that) have become a total embarrassment.

 

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Sadly - we have very little say in any of these regulations anyway.

its all about dilution of local democracy and the removal of local powers.

However - the last couple of days the news has completely changed it seems.

the bbc headlines all seem to be we are leaving now with no deal. Not seen the plagues of locusts yet though 

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BBC Bias as their "EU Commentator" pushes the Remain side.

"well, what they are saying is the British People need to vote to either destroy their savings, jobs and economy, or ask for a new vote to save themselves."

Nice even reporting there 5 Live!!

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Who else thinks that Mrs May seems to have turned a corner and found her backbone this week?

its looking much more positive and we will get a nice no deal brexit

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Her and the EU are singing from the same hymn sheet, talking up the chances (danger, if you like!)  of a no deal exit in the hope of frightening MPs into backing the deal. This is part of the reason for the delayed vote, plenty of time to lay it on nice and thick :)

Edited by duncx
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Im hoping the petition with over 250k votes asking to leave with no deal give some of the MPs a little thought that all that is heard in London not always reflects the rest of the country.

 

buddsy

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Sky news have a petition vote on debates which they broadcast , this reached 125,000 and they announced, because it was over the 100,000 it will be discussed in the house of commons in January . they said a specific date but i can not remember..  Not one word about this Brexit petition even at 250K .. strange that ... maybe its because any air time about this petition would send it ballistic and may end Up showing the true feeling of people not the false continuous fabricated false news they spew out..      

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On 19/12/2018 at 08:46, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

 "There are about another 5,000 in the pipeline and there are probably another 5,000 to come, in the event of a disorderly exit."

why a disorderly brexit? no reason why the politicians have to make it so

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14 minutes ago, CHANGES said:

Sky news have a petition vote on debates which they broadcast , this reached 125,000 and they announced, because it was over the 100,000 it will be discussed in the house of commons in January . they said a specific date but i can not remember..  Not one word about this Brexit petition even at 250K .. strange that ... maybe its because any air time about this petition would send it ballistic and may end Up showing the true feeling of people not the false continuous fabricated false news they spew out..      

The broadcasters seem to have abandoned any attempt at balance and nobody seems to do anything. The BBC have I Got News For You last time was a 10 minute anti-Brexit anti-Tory tirade at the beginning.

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Just had a look at that Petition website. There are several Brexit ones. Perhaps the most balanced is 130000 anti second referendum votes and just under 121000 pro second referendum votes. That’s 51.9% against a second referendum and 48.1% in favour. Those numbers sound familiar!

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I don't understand why people would object to a second referendum. If the opinion still is that the majority want to leave, then a second referendum would confirm that, if it's shifted to the majority now want to stay given the details of the agreement/ lack of then so be it. It's no different to an election being triggered before the full term, things may or may not have changed.

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2 hours ago, andydclements said:

I don't understand why people would object to a second referendum. 

If your team had just won the Grand Prix would you agree to a re-run next week because all the other teams had been down on power or the wrong tyres or crashed?

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The only reason we haven't left yet is because the majority of politicians don't want to leave. Are we supposed to keep voting until we give the answer the politicians want? That's not my vision of democracy.

Frankly I've given up on the whole thing - Brexit and democracy!

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3 hours ago, jonwat said:

If your team had just won the Grand Prix would you agree to a re-run next week because all the other teams had been down on power or the wrong tyres or crashed?

It's nothing like that.

It's not "winning", it's about what the voters of the UK want, which is not a defined set of criteria.

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8 minutes ago, andydclements said:

It's not "winning", it's about what the voters of the UK want, which is not a defined set of criteria.

We already held that vote.

Why would there need to be another vote asking the same question?

Why would there need to be another vote asking the same question?

 

buddsy

 

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I agree with the previous poster who poo-pooed the "we've done the vote once, so why should we have to do it again?" notion. We had a General Election on 7 May 2015. We then had another one on 6 June 2017 (despite the new fixed term legislation!) and the outcome was quite different. That's a period of 25 months between votes. As for Brexit, we're now 30 months on since the referendum and an awful a lot has changed. Why shouldn't we have a second referendum, now that the deadline is near?

Two votes to be cast on each ballot paper.

Q1: Leave EU on 29.03.19 or Remain in EU?

Q2: If Leave EU wins Q1, then Leave with No Deal or Leave with Mrs May's Deal?

Both votes must be placed for a ballot paper to count.

Simples. 

Right now I'll sort out the Middle East...

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19 minutes ago, Buddsy said:

We already held that vote.

Why would there need to be another vote asking the same question?

Why would there need to be another vote asking the same question?

 

buddsy

 

I saw what you did there.

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36 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

 We had a General Election on 7 May 2015. We then had another one on 6 June 2017

A general election is not a referendum.

The period between one general election and the next is fixed at 5 years.

The referendum was a once in a generation question and Prime Minister David Cameron was very clear.

The vote to leave has been settled.

buddsy

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A general elect is exactly a referendum, of who should represent the constituency in parliament. It's also not fixed,  it's fixed at the upper end of the time but can also be called by the existing government.

Edited by andydclements
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And represent us they do. I cannot recall a time where the winning party get harassed constantly to have a new election.

leave was the result. It’s not been implemented yet. It needs to be before we do anything else

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1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

I agree with the previous poster who poo-pooed the "we've done the vote once, so why should we have to do it again?" notion. We had a General Election on 7 May 2015. We then had another one on 6 June 2017 (despite the new fixed term legislation!) and the outcome was quite different. That's a period of 25 months between votes. As for Brexit, we're now 30 months on since the referendum and an awful a lot has changed. Why shouldn't we have a second referendum, now that the deadline is near?

Two votes to be cast on each ballot paper.

Q1: Leave EU on 29.03.19 or Remain in EU?

Q2: If Leave EU wins Q1, then Leave with No Deal or Leave with Mrs May's Deal?

Both votes must be placed for a ballot paper to count.

Simples. 

Right now I'll sort out the Middle East...

Tut, keep up at the back, I posted exactly those two 2nd referendum questions and the 'must answer' rule several pages ago :)

EDIT: and just to be clear (again), I'm not necessarily in favour of remaining or even a second referendum - just that if we do have a second one the result needs to be clear. If leave won again then remainers would still get a say in how we left and hopefully you would feel more involved in the process.

Edited by duncx
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