free hit
counters
Baffled Sump - V6 Exige Projects & Upgrades - The Lotus Forums Jump to content
Dani

Baffled Sump

Recommended Posts

Hello everybody!

Since I am tracking my Exige V6 I am considering going for a baffled sump. 

I found 3 different baffled sump which fit the exige V6: one from Lotus MotorSport (circa 1500 pound), other form Komotec and other from Morosso (both circa 500 pound)

 

Links:

http://komo-tec.com/Shop/en/Evora/Supercharger/Engine-components/Alloy-baffled-oil-pan-Exige-S-V6-Evora.html

http://www.moroso.com/eb/catalog/navigationPath//%7B35764%7D::Toyota%202GR-FEZ,%20Lotus%20Evora.html?entryId=catalog.productgroup.&expand=true&menuId=main.menu

Lotus:

ih6q0n.png

 

Then, some questions come to mind:

  1. ¿Is really my engine in risk if a track my car without a baffled sump? (+/-5 track days and +/-2500 miles road)
  2. ¿What could be the diferrence between the Lotus One and the Komotec or Morosso sump? (3x price!)

Waiting from some feedback... :coffee:

... and thank you in advance! 

Edited by Dani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Upgrade today to remove Google ads and support TLF.

Not absolutely a necessity, but it would provide a useful safety net against oil surge if, for example, your oil level is a lower than normal and or/you're pulling some high g-loadings. Cant' comment on the differences in the various products on offer, but I expect an element is 'Lotus Motorsport tax' on the official part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lotus Motorsport one is actually made by Swindon Engines afaik. The very early ones were machined from solid billet ali, they were like £2.5k…. The newer Lotus baffled sump is to the same design but in cast metal to reduce the cost. It will have been well tested and proven I'd imagine under full operational load. 

 

The others on offer will probably be constructed from peices of welded ali plate to form the sump. How much testing they will of had is questionable, as I imagine they are just being made to a basic baffled sump design and won't have facilities like Swindon do to bench test it on the engine to was designed to be on.

 

You pay's your money….

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Arun_D said:

Not absolutely a necessity, but it would provide a useful safety net against oil surge if, for example, your oil level is a lower than normal and or/you're pulling some high g-loadings. Cant' comment on the differences in the various products on offer, but I expect an element is 'Lotus Motorsport tax' on the official part.

Thanks, Arun_D. But, thats the question: What are supossely high g-loadings? :ermm:

I guessed there is a "Lotus Specail Tax" :lol:. But... a 300% tax? :o 

On the other hand, I can´t see that tax in any other LMS components as suspension, harnesses, etc...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheKevlarKid said:

The Lotus Motorsport one is actually made by Swindon Engines afaik. The very early ones were machined from solid billet ali, they were like £2.5k…. The newer Lotus baffled sump is to the same design but in cast metal to reduce the cost. It will have been well tested and proven I'd imagine under full operational load. 

 

The others on offer will probably be constructed from peices of welded ali plate to form the sump. How much testing they will of had is questionable, as I imagine they are just being made to a basic baffled sump design and won't have facilities like Swindon do to bench test it on the engine to was designed to be on.

 

You pay's your money….

 

  

 

 

I take your point. In a way, the LMS/Swindon Engines sump should have a better making and testing. Thats probably the point.

What about the needed of a baffle sump for track days? Is it a "must" or "needless"?

:welcome:

Edited by Dani

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are lots of V6 Exige's regularly running around tracks, how many have baffled sumps fitted? I'm guessing very few. I haven't heard of any V6 engine failures. I don't believe that even the Cup cars come with a standard baffled sump, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong!

Of course fitting one will provide extra protection and peace of mind and I don't think there's a downside apart from the price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depend on how good a driver you are. Lotus have to presume that Cup cars are bought for regular tracking and as such will need to make sure they are slightly over engineered. My own guess would be if you are going to use slicks then a baffled sump would be needed, otherwise i would rely on my lack of talent to keep the G-force down. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Baffled oil pan is absolutely necessary, IMHO, if you are routinely exceeding 1.1 Gs....... 1.4 shown here....;)

V6-1.4 G's.png


Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jack said:

Baffled oil pan is absolutely necessary, IMHO, if you are routinely exceeding 1.1 Gs....... 1.4 shown here....;)

V6-1.4 G's.png

Thanks Jack. You mentioned more tan 1.1G. I am sorry, but is it an standar or something stablished or just an estimation? 

Do you often exceed 1.1G with yogur CupR ? I wonder if I am exceeding or not that level with muy Exige V6 with stock shocks :question:

and Yokohamas A08R tyres 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dani said:

Thanks Jack. You mentioned more tan 1.1G. I am sorry, but is it an standar or something stablished or just an estimation? 

Do you often exceed 1.1G with yogur CupR ? I wonder if I am exceeding or not that level with muy Exige V6 with stock shocks :question:

and Yokohamas A08R tyres 

Dani,

Just an estimation by me.  Based upon my experience tracking a standard S2 Elise back in the day, 1G was easily attainable on R-compounds (A048s).  With the help of some track camber or compression, I'm sure more than 1G is possible on R-compound tires.  I would think the same is more than likely with the V6 Exige (it has even greater mechanical grip, given its wider tires, than the previous S2 Elise/Exige).

If it were my car and I were regularly tracking it, I would be getting a baffled oil pan or an accusump installed.


Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terrifically well-informed post as always by the Kevlar Kid.

:thumbup:

I'm glad I have an (early!) baffled sump on my car and just to confirm Arun's point, they do come as standard on the Cup cars. However there are a lot of V6s doing regular track work out there and I've not heard of any problems so it's clearly not essential. I think in truth you have to be pushing on pretty hard to need it. The Lotus Driving Academy run standard V6s and they have the hardest life imaginable, it would be interesting to find out if they fitted those with baffled sumps. 

I suppose we don't have that many super long, high G corners in the UK to worry too much about either. Goddards at Mallory being the only obvious exception but not many people tend to go there these days. I actually seized my Caterham at Le Mans once. The Bugatti circuit has a fiendish corner called La Chapelle that appears to have been designed purely to cause oil starvation! It's a fast corner that plunges downhill first before rising back uphill, turning right all the way. I'd definitely fit a baffled sump if I lived near Le Mans, but otherwise crack on and enjoy the car as is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cheers Jonny, I have just fitted the Lotus designed baffled sump to the red GTE. It will be spending all of it's time on track so I looked at the cost of it as a long-term insurance policy.

Hopefully it will never needed but it's tucked away out of sight waiting for the day it is.

That's the deal with these type of parts, you don't actually see them doing their thing, as and when they are doing it....

The cost of a new engine alone is eye-watering, and that's  before you have even taken into account the cost of taking the old one out and putting a new one in. Not a simple job as the whole back end of the car has to come off to do it... 

 

I'll take a baffled sump please, to a proven design!

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry OT but Jack, what do you use to record your laps that displays all that info? Is that the Garmin Virb with the OBD plug in attachment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TheKevlarKid said:

Cheers Jonny, I have just fitted the Lotus designed baffled sump to the red GTE. 

Is this GTE number 2 Gav? ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Must be the only red one I would imagine.

Donington Park in a GTE?

Hell yeah!

:band:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Jack said:

Dani,

Just an estimation by me.  Based upon my experience tracking a standard S2 Elise back in the day, 1G was easily attainable on R-compounds (A048s).  With the help of some track camber or compression, I'm sure more than 1G is possible on R-compound tires.  I would think the same is more than likely with the V6 Exige (it has even greater mechanical grip, given its wider tires, than the previous S2 Elise/Exige).

If it were my car and I were regularly tracking it, I would be getting a baffled oil pan or an accusump installed.

Spoiler

 

In a quick research I found out what accusump is.... as in MWR webpage says : " The Accusump is a clever device that accumulates pressurized engine oil, storing it until it is needed. MWR's accusump kit includes a pressure switch that only allows the accusump to discharge once engine oil pressure drops below 40psi. This is the critical time when the Accusump can do the most good. There is also a shutoff valve that allows the accusump to maintain its internal oil pressure when you shut off the ignition. Switch the ignition back on and the accusump discharges, preoiling your engine which can extend engine life "

My question is, this device is actually a solution in a case of high G forces? I mean ¿Does it do the same or nearly the same job that the baffled sump?

4 hours ago, The Pits said:

Terrifically well-informed post as always by the Kevlar Kid.

:thumbup:

I'm glad I have an (early!) baffled sump on my car and just to confirm Arun's point, they do come as standard on the Cup cars. However there are a lot of V6s doing regular track work out there and I've not heard of any problems so it's clearly not essential. I think in truth you have to be pushing on pretty hard to need it. The Lotus Driving Academy run standard V6s and they have the hardest life imaginable, it would be interesting to find out if they fitted those with baffled sumps. 

I suppose we don't have that many super long, high G corners in the UK to worry too much about either. Goddards at Mallory being the only obvious exception but not many people tend to go there these days. I actually seized my Caterham at Le Mans once. The Bugatti circuit has a fiendish corner called La Chapelle that appaears to have been designed purely to cause oil starvation! It's a fast corner that plunges downhill first before rising back uphill, turning right all the way. I'd definitely fit a baffled sump if I lived near Le Mans, but otherwise crack on and enjoy the car as is.

Anyone here who may tell us if Lotus Driving Academy equips their V6s with buffled sumps?

Pits: very interesting information about "La Chapelle"! ... Unfortunately or may be fortunately I don not live near Le Mans! :lol: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TheKevlarKid said:

Cheers Jonny, I have just fitted the Lotus designed baffled sump to the red GTE. It will be spending all of it's time on track so I looked at the cost of it as a long-term insurance policy.

Hopefully it will never needed but it's tucked away out of sight waiting for the day it is.

That's the deal with these type of parts, you don't actually see them doing their thing, as and when they are doing it....

The cost of a new engine alone is eye-watering, and that's  before you have even taken into account the cost of taking the old one out and putting a new one in. Not a simple job as the whole back end of the car has to come off to do it... 

 

I'll take a baffled sump please, to a proven design!

 

:)

What kind of sump did you choose and why? I suppose the Lotus one. Did you assesed the Komotec or Morosso sumps?

3 hours ago, Hangar 111 said:

Just as an FYI, we have some of the Moroso sumps coming in to stock next week.

Dave

May be you guys from Hangar 111 may tell us differences between the 3 sumps currently I know (Lotus, Moroso, Komotec)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oil starvation isn't just caused by surge in the sump,  it's also (and perhaps moreso) that oil which has just been pumped to the top of the engine no longer has so much assistance from gravity to drain back down to the sump. 


88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport

Evora NA

For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Xisthos said:

Sorry OT but Jack, what do you use to record your laps that displays all that info? Is that the Garmin Virb with the OBD plug in attachment?

Ryan, I'm using AIM equipment …. AIM data logging dash (MXS) coupled with the AIM SmartyCam.  It's getting data from the ECU with an OBD bridge, as well as from additional sensors which were installed by my race shop.   AIM also offers other ways to get the ECU data-- less costly method, use the AIM SoloDL with ECU bridge plus SmartyCam.  

 

Hope this helps…….  http://aimsports.com/products/mxl-chooser.html

  • Like 1

Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dani said:

In a quick research I found out what accusump is.... as in MWR webpage says : " The Accusump is a clever device that accumulates pressurized engine oil, storing it until it is needed. MWR's accusump kit includes a pressure switch that only allows the accusump to discharge once engine oil pressure drops below 40psi. This is the critical time when the Accusump can do the most good. There is also a shutoff valve that allows the accusump to maintain its internal oil pressure when you shut off the ignition. Switch the ignition back on and the accusump discharges, preoiling your engine which can extend engine life "

My question is, this device is actually a solution in a case of high G forces? I mean ¿Does it do the same or nearly the same job that the baffled sump?

Anyone here who may tell us if Lotus Driving Academy equips their V6s with buffled sumps?

Pits: very interesting information about "La Chapelle"! ... Unfortunately or may be fortunately I don not live near Le Mans! :lol: 

Dani, Lotus used accusumps on the Cup255 as well as the 2-Elevens to deal with possible oil starvation, Both those models did not come with a baffled sump from the factory.  Nevertheless, pretty much all of us that ran those cars in Lotus Cup had baffled pans installed as well for peace of mind,  Perhaps a case of belt and suspenders….:)

 


Jack
2008 2-Eleven
2015 Exige V6 CupR
Track videos ... http://www.youtube.com/jackcup
2010 Lotus Challenge Series ULTRA Class champion
2012 Lotus CUP USA OPEN Class champion

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...