Evora Sport 410

[RJB]

29 minutes ago, Snoopy1969 said:

@RJB have you had 19/20 with zero corsas on the s?

 

Yes - I had the 19/20 on the S with Corsas - much better wear 

Love it Jonny! Unfortunately am working so not getting as much time as I would like on the road ? Will try dig out a GoPro for the run at the weekend and catch a bit of the trip - especially the sound..... 

[JayEmm]

If memory serves isn't it only the dampers that have been adjusted from the 400, and the springs change themselves due to the lower weight? Or was it the other way around

My personal experience of other cars would make me think the seats make a huge difference. I know its something I discuss a lot, but I've driven a few cars which have had different seat options and when you're talking about a sporty car, then a proper sports seat makes a night/day difference

[Danelaw]

3 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

a proper sports seat makes a night/day difference

I thought it was the headlights that made the night/day difference?

Seriousy though you're right the springs are the same and so stiffer relatively speaking by virtue of the lower weight. This must also mean the 410 would ride ever so slightly higher?

 

[The Pits]

The Sport 410 rides 5mm lower than the 400 according to Lotus's press release.

Given the weight difference is that of a very slender passenger I would be amazed if the ride was noticeably much firmer. I hope to find out soon but I'm a bit afraid of what happens next if it's as good as I expect it to be!

[Danelaw]

If it rides lower on the same springs with a lighter body weight then the springs must be seated differently or they're maybe the same spring rating but made slightly shorter? 

I agree the weight difference is not massive, and perhaps the more significant gain for the 410 is the lowering of the centre of gravity and perhaps also the front to rear weight balance. 

[DaveC72]

@RJB sounds like the 410 is living up, indeed surpassing, your expectations - which is great to hear.

I'm relieved that you're getting on with the seats, as it seemed to be something that the "press" weren't universally complimentary about.  Now that you've done some more *cough* progressive driving, how do you find them?

If you are going to stick a Go-Pro in the car for some runs, make sure you get some of your "drop a gear and wonder what all the fuss was about" corners in

 

 

[Stubox]

8 hours ago, The Pits said:

I hope to find out soon but I'm a bit afraid of what happens next if it's as good as I expect it to be!

I'm teetering on the edge of a decision too, but would want to drive one to see what the performance gap feels like to the Cup. 

[The Pits]

I wasn't able to drive a V6 Cup before ordering so had to put all my faith in Lotus Motorsport. It worked out well on that occasion but in the absence of that most excellent department I feel more inclined to wait until I have driven one this time around. If it takes 6 months so be it. Another year in a V6 Cup is the kind of hardship I can live with!

The really intriguing thing for existing Exige owners who do enjoy track days is the claimed Hethel laptime.

Exige Cup 260 - 1.38

Evora S - 1.38

Evora 400 - 1.32

Exige V6S - 1.32

Exige Sport 350 - 1.29

Evora Sport 410 - 1.28

There never was an official Hethel lap time for the V6 Cup, having driven both around the test track I believe it's still a bit quicker than the Exige Sport 350 but it can't be by much. Quicker than 1.28? Doubtful. So the Sport 410 should in theory be able to offer the advantages and extra road comfort of the Evora platform with track capability similar to that of an Exige V6 Cup. That's quite an enticing thought and for me, possibly a better return for a similarly large cost to change to get into an Exige Sport 380.

 

[Snoopy1969]

@The Pits

@Stubox

easy decision: Evora CUP by Lotus Motorsport.....oh wait someone closed that unit...... I would like to see the faces of the guys that are negotiating with buyers and their DD-Team would ask "where is the awesome L Motorsport department?"

[The Pits]

Sport 410 is the closest we'll get and possibly even the closest we'd want to get with an Evora. No point going full-retard with an Evora as the Exige will always be a lighter starting point. That said, @Trevsked has owned the road going Evora GT4 and a V6 Cup so would be a good man to comment on this.

[Snoopy1969]

@The Pits "road going" GT4 means 1 of 3 GTS I guess? Well this Kind of Cage / Ingress would be a litte bit too much for (nearly) daily life I believe. But otherwise we are coming nearer, ;-)

[The Pits]

Yes the GTS. Very cool thing.

[Trevsked]

Now owned by Ken Savage and I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes on track in his and his sons experienced hands. Setup in the GTS was veryvtrack biased and too high on the spring rates in my view and probably where they were left when it was running slicks and 18" wheels all round. Other than that it was no issue for me on the road even with the cage, although I was aware of the vulnerability of my head should I be involved in a road collision. I think many would jump at a 410, myself included, if it wasn't for the price which brings so many other cars into play. None like the 410 of course as there is very little to compare but as ever it really only appeals to Lotus enthusiasts.

 

Trevor.

[RJB]

11 hours ago, The Pits said:

The Sport 410 rides 5mm lower than the 400 according to Lotus's press release.

Given the weight difference is that of a very slender passenger I would be amazed if the ride was noticeably much firmer. I hope to find out soon but I'm a bit afraid of what happens next if it's as good as I expect it to be!

Will be back in the New Forest in February Jonny if you want to take it for a spin.....

[RJB]

3 hours ago, DaveC72 said:

@RJB sounds like the 410 is living up, indeed surpassing, your expectations - which is great to hear.

I'm relieved that you're getting on with the seats, as it seemed to be something that the "press" weren't universally complimentary about.  Now that you've done some more *cough* progressive driving, how do you find them?

If you are going to stick a Go-Pro in the car for some runs, make sure you get some of your "drop a gear and wonder what all the fuss was about" corners in

 

 

The seats are fine - but then I like sleeping on a hard bed - no issue with comfort at all - the position is pretty close to what I would choose - pretty upright

[The Pits]

I'd love to see and hear the 410 in action Richard that's a very kind offer. The only demo I know of is at Central Lotus and that's an auto which makes more sense in the 400 to me and I don't think will provide access to the full Sport 410 experience.

For Trevor, with your experience of various levels of Evora and Exige V6 Cup, would go like to go more extreme in an Evora than the current 'Sport' level given the choice? Or is the Cup recipe better suited to the Exige starting point? Personally I can't see that Motorsport could have done much more to reduce weight, I suppose the airbags would go along with central locking and alarm but the weight saving would probably be offset by the harness bar and extinguisher. I guess a 410 Cup could have gone further with aero, actual downforce is much improved over the Evora 400 but still far less than an Exige V6. Anyway all irrelevant now. Without LMS I don't think there should be more Cup cars anyway.

[Trevsked]

YES! I was disappointed with the half way house that Lotus produced in the 410 but of course I haven't driven one yet, only commenting on the spec sheet. Should have been 430bhp to actually set it apart, uprated gearbox (partly addressed with an oil cooler), harness bar and harnesses and a rear roll cage/hoop. Pretty much the same as an Exige Cup but in an Evora and that way I'd feel the cost was easier to live with. Not that I wouldn't end up with a 410 if I have a drive and like it. I'm happy with the styling just would like it to be a little more...........

 

Trevor.

[Danelaw]

10 minutes ago, Trevsked said:

Should have been 430bhp

Would that have upset BMW given the current lotus model branding?

[JayEmm]

Well, jaguar just introduced a "Sport 400". That's helpful.

I suggest Lotus call their next car the Evora AMG M Sport TRD Mugen. WRX.

It'll get hits anyway.

[achaddy]

58 minutes ago, Trevsked said:

YES! I was disappointed with the half way house that Lotus produced in the 410 but of course I haven't driven one yet, only commenting on the spec sheet. Should have been 430bhp to actually set it apart, uprated gearbox (partly addressed with an oil cooler), harness bar and harnesses and a rear roll cage/hoop. Pretty much the same as an Exige Cup but in an Evora and that way I'd feel the cost was easier to live with. Not that I wouldn't end up with a 410 if I have a drive and like it. I'm happy with the styling just would like it to be a little more...........

 

Trevor.

Agreed, 10 BHP was very conservative over existing model and isn't a big enough step up. I suppose the weight reduction was seen as enough to get the gain but by the time you option in the deficits back in your weight is almost back to 400 levels. Unless you select the titanium exhaust option.

i still want one though but I too wish to drive one before I move from a Ferrari into a Lotus. Spoken to 2 dealers expressing an interest and no luck yet. Silverstone's 410 was going to be a demonstrator when I first spoke to them but now is for sale as new. 

As the two for sale are still for sale it seems the enthusiasts aren't that eager to get their hands on one. Would be interested to see how many orders they have so far. We know 2 have been delivered but no one else coming forward saying they have pulled the trigger. 

[Snoopy1969]

well, I think there was a third one here in skyblue ifI remember right

[Trevsked]

Still not many unfortunately so maybe the price hike and conservative power increase are responsible. I'd love it to be more than the sum of its parts and that's not easy to judge on a snapshot test drive.

 

Trevor.

[The Pits]

It's also a lousy time of year to sell fast cars in the UK. If my car was for sale now I wouldn't expect to be inundated with calls either.

With it being a torque limited car, extra grunt is there for the taking. I would personally be happy to chance the gearbox with a modest increase of 20-30bhp. As with my current car I wouldn't abuse it though, no cold ragging, no standing starts, no brutal gear changes and I'd take extra care in the break-in period. Seems to have paid dividends with my Exige. I doubt even another 50bhp would upset the balance of the car as it it's one of those with so much in reserve. The 400 felt like it could handle 450bhp without any other modifications. With its stiffer chassis and extra weight I still have question marks about how the DPM system would react to any power increase but haven't heard anything negative about that from any of the KT fans yet.

Of course a factory 430bhp car would be nice and make the sums easier to justify but given resources were limited I'm glad they spent the money elsewhere. With a factory chargecooled car extra power is the easiest bit to increase. In any event I'd try the car bog standard first and work out if it was worth doing. So far I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth uprating the power in my Exige. It's a really well balanced package and I'd regret it if I lost that. It's also stinking fast already and a Lotus should always be more than just a straight-line car.

But overall I would hope that here of all places we would be able to appreciate that the Sport 410 has the same power to weight ratio as a 430bhp Evora 400 already. Much better than just hiking the power the many benefits of going faster through weight reduction are compound. Of course the masses just see the headline figure but I would hope that we could all see beyond that here. The extra 10bhp seems to have distracted everyone away from the far more significant increase in power to weight ratio. 309bhp per ton is considerably more than the Exige V6S. That is pretty spectacular work starting from a chassis that weighs more than twice as much.

[Snoopy1969]

Although I am tired of all the Porsche comparisons I would like to stress the following:

End of the Eighties Porsche introduced a 911 clubsport, a comparable idea / Ethos as the 410. That was priced identically as the "normal" 911, you paid the same, got some modifications, like stiffer engine Mounts, higher rpm, and no comfort items, delete of rear seats, Sound dead. and so on, therefore weight dropped. Therefore a nice alternative, but at the same Price, the Price increase of the 410 is hard to justify unless Money does not matter. As said before: It was mentioned that production costs of the Evora 400 are lower than the Evora S1 (if you compare the seats you do not wonder for example) but the 400 already costs a lot more than the S1, the 410 expands the gap even more - ok, Lotus has to earn Money, but the fun per Euro Ratio is - in my eyes - harder to justify than before, esp with the 410 (but of course I feel happy for all of you buying the car and having fun!!!)

[Danelaw]

I think the price increase on the 410 covers the quite extensive carbon fibre parts and other special bits like the Lithium battery, albeit plus some profit for Lotus but that's the commercial world we live in. They didn't just discard the back seats and the stereo like Porsche do, but if that is what a customer wanted I think a Lotus dealer would happily discard the stereo and rear seats for them and you could have that for the standard 400 price. The 911 clubsport struck me at the time as an 'emperors new clothes' thing and I was amazed people chose not to see that. I don't see the 410 that way as it has enough (just - and perhaps only just) done to it to justify it as a special model.