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Just wait 4 months for us to vote to leave Europe and you'll get a free Exige with every 400 as the pound nose dives against the dollar.

 

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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  • Gold FFM

Trump's been here and created havoc on the locals already. Look up Trumps Golf course fiasco in Aberdeenshire, so he would have no bloody chance without eating bucket loads of humble pie, laced with Arsenic.

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Not so fast John - Trump created some mischief and mayhem in the North East for sure, but another equally dastardly protagonist in all that was Alex Salmond. And bare in mind, Salmond and his SNP cronies have been pressing for Trump to be barred from the UK with one hand, whilst appearing to fall over themselves to offer the services of Prestwick Airport, owned and run by the SNP Government, to him with the other.

At least Trump says it out and straight.... Not that I agree with all he says.

I would never vote for him if he was a politician here mind.  But then I'd never vote for Salmon and Sturgeon fish cakes either ;) for fear of a wee bone getting stuck in my throat.

 

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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They don't sound that  different to me! A bit faster, sometimes, a bit less comfortable always. A bit more Exige and a bit less Evora?

I think I'd be more tempted by just as comfortable,a bit lighter (e.g. CF roof / hatch which is good for 'lowered CoG press-releases) and 420+ BHP to give similar power to weight to the 410...

 

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Gravel, why get this car when you can just buy an Exige???  That car comes much more stripped down.  Getting an Evora without A/C or a radio is trying to turn Lotus' GT into something other than a daily driver the car was intended to be

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On 25 February 2016 at 17:53, StephVG said:

 

I think JMG has the right approach. Here is a company with very limited resources, so focus on what sets it apart from every other manufacturer: lightness.

Totally agree. JMG has focused Lotus on what made it great in the first place. I for one would buy one of these. It's the perfect car imho.

Cant remember which thread from a few years ago but I always craved a more focused Evora. Its gone to the gym, shed a few pounds and become faster.

What's not to like?! I absolutely love it?? (without the 80s stripe!). Not a question of if but when for me, gotta have one. Its the Speciale version of one of my favourite cars!! 

Well done Lotus???

Now is all I need is £80k?

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33 minutes ago, Ccd said:

Gravel, why get this car when you can just buy an Exige???  That car comes much more stripped down.  Getting an Evora without A/C or a radio is trying to turn Lotus' GT into something other than a daily driver the car was intended to be

I agree with you 100% - if an Evora is whole milk, I'd rather have whipped cream on top (450BHP, nice interior) than a skimmed milk Exige. However, there do seem to be plenty of sane people who'd rather have a semi-skimmed Evora 410...

As others have said, this may well be a place holder /  special edition for Geneva 2016, and I suspect the waters will become even more muddied when the new chassis Exige appears. 

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The water will likely be very muddied if there is an Exige Roadster in the new chassis.  Could be very tough choosing between the Evora Roadster and an Exige Roadster.  I'd love to have the task of choosing between the two!

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I like it, I wouldn't buy one, but we shouldn't be surprised with 100 special 400s, thats what lotus do isn't it?

How many special Exiges, especially the S2 have there been? 25? 40? There will be many more of these. wait until the paint specials, that will add a whole load more. 

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OK - I really don't get it.

Porsche has a 2+2 GT full of creature comforts. It then takes this base and rips out all the creature comforts to create an alcantara swathed, stripped out, performance focused, limited run, super fun car.

Porsche basks in the glory of greatness for producing such a car and the US market laps it up as does Europe.

Porsche also has a 2+0 sports car, available in roadster and coupe forms that is mostly bought by hairdressers, dentists and the like.  They take this car and make it more focused for the track, and then more focused again to produce a brilliant GT4 version in not so limited numbers to offer a truly great track car. 

Porsche basks in the glory of greatness for producing such a car and the US market laps it up as does Europe.

Lotus has a 2+2 GT full of creature comforts and the best steering and handling in its class. It then takes this base and rips out all the creature comforts to create an alcantara swathed, stripped out, performance focused, limited run, super fun car.

Lotus gets slagged off left right and centre and no-one can understand why on earth such a car should be conceived, yet alone born and in the US they're pissed off because they'll get it at the same time (ish) as the softer car.

Lotus also has a 2+0 sports car, available in roadster and coupe forms that is mostly bought by real driving enthusiasts and the like. They take this car and make it more focused for the track, and then more focused again to produce a brilliant CupR version to offer a truly great track car.

Lotus has some sales success and some grudging acceptance from Journo's in the US and Europe.

 

I'm trying to work out if the problem is Lotus, Journo's, or the people who buy them! ;)

Seems that no matter what lotus does, it just get's a kicking, and very often, by it's own family members.  

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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The people who buy them for certain. 

Also, what people say here is mere chatter, the fundamentals are much more profound. Lotus doesn't have much investment and it shows, and we're nit picking on the edges (such as a new special) when really we're criticising something more fundamental. 

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That's the point I was trying to make earlier. Pork have loads of variants and people praise the choice. Lotus do it and it's not needed, makes no sense and is to expensive. The PH thread is actually mostly positive and it feels like the lotus view is shifting to more positive. 

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I do like it, I can't afford it though so anything I say is irrelevant but it does seem a bit of a half-hearted effort really. I think if they'd put an extra £10k on the price and gone all out with carbon roof etc (body-work using the new 311 composite?) and 450bhp then there would be fewer detractors and people would sit up and take a lot more notice.

 

As for the Exige or stripped out Evora question, I've had an Elise and while it was sublime on track, now I'm starting to knock on into middle age I much prefer the relative comfort of the Evora, being able to get in and out more easily with the seat slid back, being able to get a perfect driving position as the wheel moves, not being accused of touching up the passenger's knee when I change to 2nd etc so I would go for the stripped Evora over an Exige.

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31 minutes ago, Chris J said:

I think if they'd put an extra £10k on the price and gone all out with carbon roof etc

Psst, the Ev410 already has a carbon roof:

"The high-performance, carbon fibre components have played the single biggest role in the evolution of the Evora Sport 410. These include front splitter, roof panel, tailgate, and rear diffuser..."

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2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

OK - I really don't get it.

Porsche has a 2+2 GT full of creature comforts. It then takes this base and rips out all the creature comforts to create an alcantara swathed, stripped out, performance focused, limited run, super fun car.

Porsche basks in the glory of greatness for producing such a car and the US market laps it up as does Europe.

Porsche also has a 2+0 sports car, available in roadster and coupe forms that is mostly bought by hairdressers, dentists and the like.  They take this car and make it more focused for the track, and then more focused again to produce a brilliant GT4 version in not so limited numbers to offer a truly great track car. 

Porsche basks in the glory of greatness for producing such a car and the US market laps it up as does Europe.

Lotus has a 2+2 GT full of creature comforts and the best steering and handling in its class. It then takes this base and rips out all the creature comforts to create an alcantara swathed, stripped out, performance focused, limited run, super fun car.

Lotus gets slagged off left right and centre and no-one can understand why on earth such a car should be conceived, yet alone born and in the US they're pissed off because they'll get it at the same time (ish) as the softer car.

Lotus also has a 2+0 sports car, available in roadster and coupe forms that is mostly bought by real driving enthusiasts and the like. They take this car and make it more focused for the track, and then more focused again to produce a brilliant CupR version to offer a truly great track car.

Lotus has some sales success and some grudging acceptance from Journo's in the US and Europe.

 

I'm trying to work out if the problem is Lotus, Journo's, or the people who buy them! ;)

Seems that no matter what lotus does, it just get's a kicking, and very often, by it's own family members.  

There's a substantial difference between Porsche and Lotus as companies themselves: the german brand is a lot bigger fish that sells way much more than the english one and has, since a few years, widened its product line with not just sports cars but also SUVs and saloons, that here, based on what I see, so no figures sorry, sell more than the sports car they've become famous for.

These are companies of totally different size and needs and we can't compare them just because they produce cars that have comparable performances and prices.

For example Porsche isn't struggling to export one of its killer-products to the biggest market in the world (400 to USA). I guess our american friends would have been a lot less hateful to the 410 if they'd already have the 400 they've ordered months ago. And personally I don't think the 410 is a bad car, I just think IMHO that it's not what Lotus AS A COMPANY should have done now. 

 

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Whether we like it or not, or think it is appropriate or not, the simple fact is that Porsche is the benchmark that Lotus is ALWAYS referenced to. So I'm not sure what you're saying here as whatever Porsche produces can seem to be nothing but good, yet whatever Lotus produces is somehow labelled as inferior / quirky / something else.

Indeed, if you take your points re Porsche being a lot bigger fish that sells way more, surely, our response should more positively be leaning towards Lotus as they are, pound for euro, punching way above their weight.

And finally, the reason why Porsche is not struggling to export its killer-products to the US is just the point you raised, it's size!  Which means it has the ability to deal with different market legislations in a better way. My understanding of the delay with the 400 in the US, is that it is down to the US regulators side of things, not Lotus. But I am happy, as always, to be proven wrong here as I am not certain of that.

In most markets for other things - a niche, almost artisan, hand made product sold in limited numbers would command a massive premium. But no, not for Lotus, it is instead pulled up for not having the tacky plastic mass produced of its more common and seemingly illustrious rivals and for being cheaper (if you compare the Evora to its proper rival the 911). Yes, I'm terribly biased. Sorry ;)

 

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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I wonder how much weight would be saved if Lotus did a 'Titanium' edition with steel components replaced with Ti where possible?

Most competitors offer a full Ti exhaust and that could also be an 'up sell' option for other owners. Presumably on a new build line many steel bolts and screws could readily be changed for Ti, and the roll bar and some chassis elements could unless this requires a new crash test? Titanium wheel bolts would save unsprung weight and the use of 'exotic' materials such as CF and Ti always aid bragging rights.

I'm not the only owner who is silly about his Evora and wants it to have the best of everything. If Lotus did more options for lighter parts for road cars I'd be saving my pocket money like a 10 year old and buying more things I don't really need - all Evoras are already special and fast enough really, but...

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46 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Whether we like it or not, or think it is appropriate or not, the simple fact is that Porsche is the benchmark that Lotus is ALWAYS referenced to. So I'm not sure what you're saying here as whatever Porsche produces can seem to be nothing but good, yet whatever Lotus produces is somehow labelled as inferior / quirky / something else.

Indeed, if you take your points re Porsche being a lot bigger fish that sells way more, surely, our response should more positively be leaning towards Lotus as they are, pound for euro, punching way above their weight.

And finally, the reason why Porsche is not struggling to export its killer-products to the US is just the point you raised, it's size!  Which means it has the ability to deal with different market legislations in a better way. My understanding of the delay with the 400 in the US, is that it is down to the US regulators side of things, not Lotus. But I am happy, as always, to be proven wrong here as I am not certain of that.

As a 10 month Evora owner, I have to say that one of the things that puts me off is the feeling that I have to join a Lotus worshiping cult!

I bought my Evora because I liked the look of it, could afford a one, and was instantly smitten on the test-drive. It is IMO a great but slightly flawed car, and a lot of those flaws have been fixed in the 400 - well done Lotus!

Some people here seem to get very defensive whenever the Evora is compared to anything else, and unfortunately, having made the 410 2+0 only, the list of things you can compare this Evora to has widened to include not only Lotus' 'proper track car', the Exige, but also more of the Porsche range and Jag F-types etc.

 

23 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

In most markets for other things - a niche, almost artisan, hand made product sold in limited numbers would command a massive premium. But no, not for Lotus, it is instead pulled up for not having the tacky plastic mass produced of its more common and seemingly illustrious rivals and for being cheaper (if you compare the Evora to its proper rival the 911). Yes, I'm terribly biased. Sorry ;)
 

I'd say it already is at a premium! Yes, it's very exotic - mid engined, composite bodywork, ally tub, all excellent motorsports cred. However it's no Mclaren - there are too many bits that Lotus didn't make, that IMO just aren't special enough for an 70-80K car that's supposed to be more than a weekend toy.

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5 hours ago, C8RKH said:

OK - I really don't get it.

Porsche has a 2+2 GT full of creature comforts. It then takes this base and rips out all the creature comforts to create an alcantara swathed, stripped out, performance focused, limited run, super fun car.

Porsche basks in the glory of greatness for producing such a car and the US market laps it up as does Europe.

Porsche also has a 2+0 sports car, available in roadster and coupe forms that is mostly bought by hairdressers, dentists and the like.  They take this car and make it more focused for the track, and then more focused again to produce a brilliant GT4 version in not so limited numbers to offer a truly great track car. 

Porsche basks in the glory of greatness for producing such a car and the US market laps it up as does Europe.

Lotus has a 2+2 GT full of creature comforts and the best steering and handling in its class. It then takes this base and rips out all the creature comforts to create an alcantara swathed, stripped out, performance focused, limited run, super fun car.

Lotus gets slagged off left right and centre and no-one can understand why on earth such a car should be conceived, yet alone born and in the US they're pissed off because they'll get it at the same time (ish) as the softer car.

Lotus also has a 2+0 sports car, available in roadster and coupe forms that is mostly bought by real driving enthusiasts and the like. They take this car and make it more focused for the track, and then more focused again to produce a brilliant CupR version to offer a truly great track car.

Lotus has some sales success and some grudging acceptance from Journo's in the US and Europe.

 

I'm trying to work out if the problem is Lotus, Journo's, or the people who buy them! ;)

Seems that no matter what lotus does, it just get's a kicking, and very often, by it's own family members.  

Please keep in mind that the engine of a gt3 is a lot different to the"normal" ones / 911 esp yet when they changed to turbo engines for the normal ones. I think some guys expect more differences on the mechanical / engine side, maybe a valid point in my eyes. Overall I think the 410 is a nice addition to the line but said by others: the exact place of this is not so easy to get as it is similar to the 400. How will buy an Evora without AC? By the way: you can order the 400 without Ac......who does that? Maybe a bigger step to an Evora Cup, really stripped out, as the former Exige CUP WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE APPEALING ......understandable

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No need to join the cult Joe and not everything Lotus does is great, we know that. But I guess I (and maybe others too) do get tired of the same old crap being spouted by journo's and others (and the others being mainly owners of other brands who have only ever seen a Lotus, not actually been in one) about Toyota engines, plastic, lots of trouble, it won't be reliable. Most of that is just complete and utter tosh and the failings (like engines literally going bang) of brands like Porsche just get ignored or swept under the carpet. That's what makes me fight for the little guy...  :0)

But hey, I'm perfectly happy to have a discussion about different points of view and along the way I learn some new things.

Which F-type is the stripped out ultra lightweight track focused one of the range by the way? And if you look at the Porsche 911 equivalents then they start at a lot, lot more than £80k. Is it just that people buy a Lotus because they can't buy something better then?  And as for your "it ain't no Mclaren" quote then you're spot on. It ain't. Which maybe explains why it is half the price of the cheapest Mclaren and maybe why Mclaren can afford more bespoke bits as opposed to raiding car bit bins.  Again, how can you compare an £80k car and a £150k car and call out the fact that one is more is more exclusive and bespoke than the other and not see either the irony, or whatever, in the comment?  It genuinely confuses me.

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I came into this world screaming and covered in someone elses blood. I'll probably leave it in the same way. 

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