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Evora Sport 410

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Makes me think I was right to stay with my Evora S1 for the time being. I could not justify the my car plus £35k - £40k cost to change last time as the Evora is one of two "weekend play cars", and I certainly could not justify my car plus £50-57k for the 410, as good as that car is and as much as I want one.

I think my Evora will end up being a keeper, one that I turn up at LEGS drives at in 20 years and hopefully people will swoon over it the way we swoon over Esprit's now!

The £50 - £57k cost to change for the 410 would buy me a seriously shockingly good 2nd hand Exige 350 and in not too long a 2nd hand Exige 380 to sit alongside the Evora S1 in the garage. That would be a garage I'd be very happy with and a serious upgrade to my current S1 Evora/VX220 combination.

So I think the dilemma for many current Lotus owners is that the 400 / 410, fantastic as it is, and yes I would have one in a heart beat, just did not/does not move things on enough for many Evora S1 owners. We've seen a few move up from S1 to 400 ownership, but not the wholesale exodus maybe we expected and that is in part due to the fantastic ownership proposition the S1 is with regards to residuals, cost of ownership and running - in other words the smiles per pound. 

Indeed, we are seeing a number of new to Lotus owners moving in to a 400. I believe a fair few VX220 owners for instance have moved up to the 400.

However, for new Lotus owners, I do believe the 400 and 410 are appealing to the Pork GT brigade. The 400 and 410 is a real contender and a real alternative to the Pork 911 and the GT cars especially when, as mentioned above, you look at the price differential of over £65k between a 410 and a 911 GT3. That's a serious wedge to save and to be invested in mods. And maybe that is or was Lotus's strategy, to slowly move the Evora closer to the 911, whilst bringing the Exige up close to the Cayman GT. There are granted many out there who, it seems, have no issue lashing out £140 - £200k on a track car or toy and to get them out of their Porker GT's or Macca's or Fezza's will not be an easy task for Lotus as those car companies do a good job of "looking after" these high net worth cash machines. However, there must be many more who will happily dosh out £50 - £120k on  a track toy and with the Elise Cup (£55k?), Exige 380 (£75k?), Evor 410 (£85k) and a potential Evora 430/450 that must come next year (£95k-£100k) Lotus has pretty well got that segment covered when you add in the 311 road (£90k and the 311 race £120k).  

I find it hard to believe that next year we will not see an Evora 430/450 Sport from Lotus priced at around £95k - £100k.  They've done the lightening bit with the 410 and moved the price North. The next logical step is to take that lighter platform and add power and aero.  If it did happen, a factory Evora 430/450 Sport would be something....

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You are very correct in your comparison within the evora range that the price difference is probably difficult to justify. However, I also think lotus should take a leaf out of Porsche/ferraris book regarding a clear and understandable model line up. Everyone knows a gt/ speciale version of a particular model will come along, and that they will not be replaced until the entire model is refreshed in a few years time. If lotus had a clear model lineup, and say the 410 will be the halo evora for a few years until an updated 400 comes along, then i think the higher prices can start to become justified.  I know depreciation is a dirty word, but no one wants to put 90k into a supposedly top of the line model, only to be spanked in a year when a better one comes out. It might not, but there is that uncertainty. Either way, I still want to see a back to back comparison between a 410 and 400!

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It'll be interesting to see how it works when (if) the Evora roadster comes out. I'd assume that a "standard" 400 will kick off the range, rely on newness to drive full-price sales and then a 410 will get added 12-18 months down the line as the novelty wears off. At least that would make sense but I guess you wouldn't bet against the "Roadster 434 CrazySuperMegaSport" being launched two weeks later. 

Incidentally I think the roadster might be the game changer for S1 owners, particularly if there's a 2+2 option. No reason not to have the back seats - after all, there's an immediate solution to the headroom problem B-)

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Great!!! But no A/C? Are you sure ... its going to kill the resale value of the car ... 

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It will ... nothing to worry if you lease it but if you buy it I would always go for the A/C because of resale ... I think even most of the Exige / Elise Cup Guys did order it ...

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In any Evora, you need to have Air Con. They get very warm inside the car after a few miles on the road.  Thats also why most GT 3 /4 race cars are also fitted with air con, the driver would fry without it.

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Not sure I agree with that. Unless it's actually raining my window is always open, even if the heater is on because it's cold. If for no other reason than to hear the exhaust.  Even on long journeys in middle of summer I rarely use the aircon

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Air con for me, always.

better to have it and not use it, than not have it and need it.

particularly with Lotus' when they need dehumidifying, the AC is useful then too! :lol:

 

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Thanks Colin.

In 4 Years with my S1 Evora ich used aircon 3 or 4 times, windows are always open.

However, now its too late.

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Each to their own. In two years of daily driving in my Evora, I've never turned the aircon off.  With the window open, air enters the car, goes against the rear window, bulkhead, heats up and circulates around the car. The back window gets very hot!  Personally, I much prefer the 400 to the 410. The 410 is no doubt great on track, if that's your thing, but I'd prefer the higher equipment levels and greater comfort of the 400 as a daily driver. I'm much more GT than Trackman!

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No aircon makes it the ultimate purists edition. It's likely to be very rare in that spec but perversely I'd find that quite attractive to buy used providing it was a manual. No stereo is definitely a plus for me in a 410. Of course I'd make a big deal out of the lack of aircon to try and negotiate a better deal but it wouldn't put me off at all. I did wimp out and spec it in my V6 Cup but I have to admire anyone who orders without it. An Esprit Sport 300 ordered without aircon is a proper one surely? ;)

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@Breeze@Breeze with the aircon on and the windows open all you are doing is using a pissy small compressor to try to cool the whole world. Total waste of bhp, energy and fuel! If it's hot and you need aircon close the windows and put the air recirculation and aircon on.

I have to admit 90% of the time I am an aircon off and windows open Evora driver. Fresh air and the roar from my V6 through its 2bular headers. Bliss. Or is that heaven. Or is it blissfully heaven?

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If you want your AC to have a long life use it - if you don't the seals will dry out and it will fail.

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So the 410 is about £10k more than a 400. That's not too bad given that its residuals will be better and you get a load of nice carbon plus sharper handling (probably). I too would love to see a back to back test of a 400 and 410, perhaps that's something TLF could arrange?

Given that it would probably cost me £30k+ to change, I doubt the 410 is that much better! Particularly as the 400 is such a great road car, but if you're looking to buy new, and it isn't going to be a daily driver, a 410 looks a good option.

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Yes a £10k premium for a Sport 410 is fine with me. The car appeals massively. It looks like the real problem is the price of the 400 now. How did it get from £70somethingk to £83k?

As for those convinced there will be a 430/450 Evora around the corner I'm not so sure. It's not a co-incidence that none of the current range has more than 302lbs/ft. The current gearbox is the limiting factor and it's too expensive to change, especially while Lotus are on this cost cutting/higher margin mission.

Of course Lotus aren't alone in hiking prices. Nissan bumped the Nismo GTR from £120k to £149k overnight. The current GTR started at £57k and is now £80k, it does come well equipped for that price though. You can now pay well over £100k for a Jaguar F-Type, which I really struggle with.

I think the whole industry was absolutely hammered by the financial crisis and we've had it too good for too long. They've realised that a lot of people have done well since then and the prices we see now are an attempt to rake in as much as they can, while they can.

Of course the real problem is not so much increasing prices but my failure to increase my wealth! Fair play to those who can afford a new Evora 400 or Sport 410. You guys must know quite a few things I don't!

:thumbup:

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1 hour ago, gregs24 said:

If you want your AC to have a long life use it - if you don't the seals will dry out and it will fail.

This is true, also the lubrication is in the gas, so it'll sieze as well. Keeping it ticking over is usually the cause of me using it rather than that I actually want to.

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Don't forget also that the new car tax is hiked up significantly from april this year too - the 400 will be an extra £3.5k over the first 5 years (£1200+ up front in year one and £450 a year for years 2-5).  ouch....

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28 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Don't forget also that the new car tax is hiked up significantly from april this year too - the 400 will be an extra £3.5k over the first 5 years (£1200+ up front in year one and £450 a year for years 2-5).  ouch....

I wonder whether this will have a similar affect that stamp duty had - act as an artificial ceiling on MRP. Fleet and lease buyers will be a tuned to this as cars that pop over £40k MRP are going to jump in monthly lease costs.

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@RJB don't worry re the drips when you open the boot. My Jag XJ did that. My wife's current new Qashqai does it. ....  TADTS!!!!  LOL.

I'm a bit like you in that the kids, the mortgage and all the other monthly bills (apart from council tax and utilities etc) have all gone. Very fortunate place to be and could have a 410 but I can't spend that much on a car. Just can't bring myself to do it and would shit myself taking it on the track!  It's bonkers really, I'd happily buy two toys at £40/45k each, but not one at £80k+......  What a dope.

Reading your post it sounds like the 410 is everything I thought it would be. Motorsport green or flame rouge, possibly essex blue and maybe yellow - damn, any colour really I guess - would do it for me. I suspected it would be a truly great GT car and from your write up it sounds like it is. I think i am going to have to man up but will wait until the roadster comes out - maybe they will do a 410 with a lightweight roof :).

 @The Pits you may be correct re the 430/450 - but with the Roadster not due for some time i can't see Lotus not doing anything with the Evora between now and 2020 performance wise.  They do need to do something though if they are torque constrained on the gearbox.

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In theory they could increase bhp by chasing higher revs and keep the torque around the same level. The 991 GT3 only makes 320lbs/ft yet 468bhp @ 8250rpm.

This would be my dream solution for a Lotus, just imagine the noise! It's entirely dependent on the gearbox being able to take the higher rpm of course (about as big an 'if' as they come!) but it would also be very expensive, all new internals for a start and no-one is going higher revving these days. Very few new cars rev over 7,000rpm now.

Indeed the peak power in the Sport 380 has gone down from 7000rpm to 6700rpm.

 

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@C8RKH.   I am fully aware of that. I was quite simply making an observation that with the air con turned off..( quite obviously ) and with the window open  ( Drivers side only )  the interior doesn't stay very cool because of the heat coming off the rear bulkhead. That's why i have the windows shut and the air con on all the time.   

PS. I hold a degree in  automotive and aeronautical mechanical engineering, so really, I do understand these things, and don't really need to have your kind advice thanks, though I'm sure you must be an expert.  ;-)

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I bow to your superior wisdom oh all knowledgeable one but if you re read your original post it was easy to "assume" you had your ac on and window open (as it was not quite obvious). :P

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