Evora Sport 410

[JayEmm]

@The Pits perhaps that is why we have such a different opinion of the 355, I have only driven the earlier one which feels quite healthy in the engine department.

On the subject of the 410, I suspect the majority of its improved lap times come from the Cup 2 tyres, nothing else.

I have filmed a review on one but not released it yet. It is not an inherently bad car I just feel it somewhat unnecessary in the current Lotus line-up.

[scotty435]

9 hours ago, JayEmm said:

@The Pits perhaps that is why we have such a different opinion of the 355, I have only driven the earlier one which feels quite healthy in the engine department.

On the subject of the 410, I suspect the majority of its improved lap times come from the Cup 2 tyres, nothing else.

I have filmed a review on one but not released it yet. It is not an inherently bad car I just feel it somewhat unnecessary in the current Lotus line-up.

Jay as much as I like your YouTube channel and your feedback on here, just don't get why you are always having a dig at the 410, it's had nothing but fantastic reviews, 400 owners upgraded to them and love them, seen a good few now, the car looks amazing with all the Carbon and Cup seats, be nice if they could incorporate a opengate gear linkage and a touch more power, but sure the cup version will be with us soon which I am sure will be mind blowing.

[pickle]

The more I see if the colour of this car on Jack's Instagram, the more I like it. It's absolutely gorgeous to my eyes

[JayEmm]

I'll give a fuller explanation when I can but I feel they just didn't go far enough with the 410. 

There is a lot right with the car, an awful lot - and some of the 410s I have seen I would buy in a heartbeat (Silverstone's Azure blue for example), but I feel like it's not the car I wanted Lotus to make. Why dealers keep buying them in dark colours I don't know- it looks wrong to me.

I expected it to be quite harsh, but it is hardly any more difficult to use than a 400. You could definitely daily it.

The carbon stuff is excellent. Absolutely top notch. The tailgate is beautiful.

It drives brilliantly, one of the nicest handling cars I have ever driven and not much is going to be quicker on a B road.

BUT the seats are very uncomfortable for someone of my size, and they look lost in the cabin. There are some odd design choices - why is the sail panel not carbon? It isn't any quicker than a 400 and I suspect around track a 400 is only some GEO and a nice set of tyres behind. And for a track focused car the exhaust becomes even more of a problem.

I could not have one without A.C.  and I would also have the luxury stuff added back in. I don't like paying for what is free in the base model. I can bin the 400 speakers at no cost! What I would end up with is a 400 with some nice carbon and wheels, and seats that stab me. No this is not the Porsche model, a GT3 is a VERY different car. And I like lotus these days, not Porsche.

Don't get me wrong - it is fundamentally brilliant. All Evoras are. But I would actually like to see a Evora 320 with an upgraded N.A. motor, and a lower price to steal the Cayman market from Porsche now they dropped two cylinders. Make stereo and AC optional on that, call it a Clubsport or whatever.

And I can't love every model to bits, or no one would believe anything I had to say...

7 minutes ago, pickle said:

The more I see if the colour of this car on Jack's Instagram, the more I like it. It's absolutely gorgeous to my eyes

THIS. Stunning.

[pickle]

Here, have another 

[chylld]

14 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

It isn't any quicker than a 400 and I suspect around track a 400 is only some GEO and a nice set of tyres behind.

This. I've taken my geo a bit past what the 410 has and put R compound tyres on too, as well as a harness+bar. I really doubt that I would be faster than a stock 410.

If the 410 was a 450 then not only would I be faster in it, but I'd have one on my driveway in a heartbeat

[Snoopy1969]

Having a look on insta:

Good to see that there is Support and not just a "here is the car see you in a week" ..........Mission ;-)

[pickle]

@Snoopy1969 have you managed to work out any lap times yet? I've noticed that you've been following closely on Instagram.

[JayEmm]

Well, they are going to Nürburg...

Edited May 30, 2017 by JayEmm

[Snoopy1969]

@pickle unfortunately not, I asked for the time at spa and he answered that he will have to get it from a Video, but due to high traffic he is not expec. tooo much....

Jack is a Top guy answering the questions from this nerdy crowd ;-) 

[pickle]

I've thought that too. He comes across very well indeed and it makes it feel like you're a part of the adventure in a way.

[cib24]

Didn't think that colour would suit an Evora but it looks great. Really sharp and stands out as it should. 

[The Pits]

Looks like we have different opinions of the Sport 410 too then Jay, it is the first Evora I have really, badly wanted and indeed attempted to buy.

By the way, it is entirely acceptable to like all the cars in the Lotus range if that happens to be true and, for that matter, wouldn't the headline: 'Evora 400 owner likes Sport 410' be less predictable than 'Evora 400 owner doesn't think Sport 410 is much faster or worth the extra'? 400 owners approach every drive of a 410 hoping not to like it I'd have thought!

A bit of controversy will help raise the view count no doubt. I for one will be interested to watch your review.

I do find it amusing that even here weight loss is a tough sell. Talk of '450bhp and I'll buy it' is a good one, 460bhp is already available from a remap so no doubt the arbitrary '450' will be considered not enough for the money when that comes and everyone will declare the 410 better value! Just for reference Porsche drop 10kg and add 20bhp between GT3 and GT3RS and it's hailed as a masterpiece. Lambo are making a big song and dance about the 40kg lighter Huracan Performante. Lotus took nearly 70kg off the rear axle for the 410, significantly altering the weight distribution as well as the power:weight and lowering the centre of gravity by 12mm. Yet I suspect most would be more impressed by a '400' with 450bhp. Fair enough on pistonheads but say it ain't so on here! More power is the easy bit. Whether through principle, gearbox limitations or cost control, Lotus got their priorities right with the 410. A rare thing these days.

 

 

[chylld]

The GT3 RS is a limited edition car and enjoys stupidly good resale as a result. The Huracan Performante has some of the most sophisticated active aero of any modern supercar and has the ring time to back it up.

With the 410, after all is said and done, it's only 1.5 seconds faster than a 400 around a 1:30 track? Correct me if I'm wrong there. My 400 is 4 seconds faster around a 1:50 track with track tyres that are less aggressive than the PSC2 the 410 is shod with.

The 410 is a great car, but it is not enough. 460 remap is meaningless without a Lotus factory drivetrain warranty to back it up.

Lotus' core principle is adding lightness, but a point comes when adding more lightness is no longer as beneficial to the car's performance as fiddling with one of the other fundamental stats.

Edited May 30, 2017 by chylld

[Bravo73]

3 hours ago, JayEmm said:

There are some odd design choices - why is the sail panel not carbon?

Getting the carbon weave to match between the roof, the tailgate and the 'engine bay ventilation panel' would be very, very difficult (if not impossible). 

[Snoopy1969]

As stated by many: I like the idea / concept of the 410 in General but would have been far more impressed if it would be "more Cup" than now within the 410 - to be crystalclear on that: I mean "Cup" like a Exige v6 (Motorsport) Cup like @The Pits car, n o t the Exige 380 Cup which might be nice but in my eyes (ok, a liitle bit too General) it is too much "new model cause more carbon bling bling" in it. Also things like the Price of the tit. exhaust are not really persuading  - compare the Price to the very fine tit. exhaust Systems of Akrapovic........ummph....I would like to see a weight comparison of real cars 400 normal spec, and 410 "normal euro spec" so ac/ satnav/carbon seats ....I guess a difference might be there but to be neglected. As also said by others: I guess the better times are a result of the Cup tires mostly - but are Cup tires are a good idea for using the car in "mixed weather"...? I guess no, also I believe that Cup tires will not even last as Long as the often critiz. P Zero Corsa tires. conclusion: 410 very nice but Lotus might do better in several directions, if you are looking for a new / slightly used Lotus 400 / 410 the 400 will be the better / more "priceworthy" aquisition I guess.  

[chylld]

2 minutes ago, Snoopy1969 said:

I guess the better times are a result of the Cup tires mostly - but are Cup tires are a good idea for using the car in "mixed weather"...? I guess no, also I believe that Cup tires will not even last as Long as the often critiz. P Zero Corsa tires.

I have burned through about half the tread on my track tyres in about 2000km, half of which were track kms. The dealer reckons by now I've used over half of the life in terms of heat cycles.

At first they were ok in the wet but now they are quite hopeless. On both street and track they are noticeably worse than the standard Michelin PSS in the wet. So bad that tomorrow I'm picking up a second set of wheels so that I can save them just for trackdays in good weather.

Tyres like the Corsa are a better middle-ground choice for occasional track work and spirited driving in all reasonable weather.

[Cypriot]

Does altering the geo of a 400 affect your warranty? Probably a stupid question, but one I don't know the answer to...

Edited May 30, 2017 by Cypriot

[Snoopy1969]

@chylld thanks for clarification and sharing your experiences!

 

[chylld]

7 minutes ago, Cypriot said:

Does altering the geo of a 400 affect your warranty? Probably a stupid question, but one I don't know the answer to...

It's a good question, I suspect it doesn't as my dealer was able to reach -1.5 degrees front camber on my car using just the standard adjustments. It doesn't create any extra load on any suspension components, so it would be tough for a manufacturer to argue that the geo change caused something to fail.

The main thing that it will affect (apart from a few tenths on track) is tyre wear, and for the better. The dealer has another 400 shod with the same tyres as mine, but with the stock -0.5 camber, and the tyres are noticeably more unevenly worn than mine.

[C8RKH]

26 minutes ago, chylld said:

The GT3 RS is a limited edition car and enjoys stupidly good resale as a result. The Huracan Performante has some of the most sophisticated active aero of any modern supercar and has the ring time to back it up.

With the 410, after all is said and done, it's only 1.5 seconds faster than a 400 around a 1:30 track? Correct me if I'm wrong there. My 400 is 4 seconds faster around a 1:50 track with track tyres that are less aggressive than the PSC2 the 410 is shod with.

The 410 is a great car, but it is not enough. 460 remap is meaningless without a Lotus factory drivetrain warranty to back it up.

Lotus' core principle is adding lightness, but a point comes when adding more lightness is no longer as beneficial to the car's performance as fiddling with one of the other fundamental stats.

Not seeing the logic here. @CocoPops was what 5 seconds faster in his 400 around a 3 minute track than his S1 NA - +130 bhp and over twice the cost... I think it makes the 1.5 seconds in the 410 on a 1.30 track quite good actually.

[Cypriot]

Sometimes it's also not the lap time itself that matters.  Having driven the 400 and 410 back to back, they feel and handle quite different. At least they did to me.

[franjipane]

http://www.lotuscars.com/news/engineering/lightening-strikes-again-lotus-evora-sport-410

3 seconds faster with the psc2 tyres.

[chylld]

9 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Not seeing the logic here. @CocoPops was what 5 seconds faster in his 400 around a 3 minute track than his S1 NA - +130 bhp and over twice the cost... I think it makes the 1.5 seconds in the 410 on a 1.30 track quite good actually.

You're not seeing my point either: my 400 is 3.5% faster with track tyres (1:49 vs 1:53). The 410 is only 3.3% faster than the 400 with track tyres (1:28 vs 1:31). JayEmm and I are just saying that the majority of the 410's performance improvement comes from the tyres.

6 minutes ago, Cypriot said:

Sometimes it's also not the lap time itself that matters.  Having driven the 400 and 410 back to back, they feel and handle quite different. At least they did to me.

If the feel out of the factory is the most important thing to you, then the 410 is your car. Totally your choice.

Edited May 30, 2017 by chylld

[JayEmm]

GEO should not affect warranty as it can become different through normal wear and tear anyway.

It is not a problem by any means exclusive to the 410 but for cars at that price point the silly little changes being made in the name of saving pennies become even harder to stomach IMHO.

On the other side, I have always totally lusted after an LF1 despite knowing they are basically a fancy paint scheme... we can't always be logical!