JayEmm 1,272 Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Every one except the blue one at Silverstone. That's mine;) Quote James Martin (JayEmm) Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast Follow my Lotus adventure online! www.jayemm.com Link to post Share on other sites
The Pits 4,410 Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 No-one here believes every product Lotus releases is perfect. Read the articles, threads and posts, there's plenty of criticism in there if that's what's what anyone's looking for. Really winds me up this idea that TLF doesn't do criticism. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Cypriot 92 Posted June 7, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 I will say what I said when I first drove the 410: the 410 feels like a very different car from the moment you first start rolling compared to a 400. Forget performance, there isn't much between them. To say that the 410 is pointless on the basis that is doesn't move performance on enough is like saying the mclaren 570s is pointless as it's not really that much faster than the 570gt. They aren't though, as they are very different handling cars. I think this point is the one thing overlooked in james' video, and what many people will struggle to grasp unless they drive a 400 and 410 back to back. The 410 may not crush a 400 round a track/road, but the guy behind the wheel of the 410 will definitely have a more involving drive, if a bit bumpier! That is the crucial difference to me, not the performance. Both great cars, and both have their place. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Trevsked 771 Posted June 7, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 You get it, as do I but it seems James misses the point unfortunately. Like you, the first few hundred metres were immediately different for me over the standard 400, the 410 just felt more eager and less like a GT. Trevor. 7 Quote I'll get around to it at some point. Link to post Share on other sites
Gold FFM Popular Post C8RKH 6,406 Posted June 8, 2017 Gold FFM Popular Post Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I think the issue is if you've recently shelled out on a 400 you will likely not appreciate fully the subtle advances of the 410 so will be in danger of not seeing the value. After all, your newish 400 is the best Evora.... I had the same problem believe it or not with the S1 to 400 move. I just could not see and still don't how the 400 was worth more than 2x my S1 NA. Take away the fact the 400 was a new car, there was just not enough of a difference for ME. I'm attracted to the 410 as even though it is more expensive the car looks more focused and sharper, to ME. I am yearning for a 410 ( though 430/450bhp for the same money as a 410 and I'd be in one already!) because it is not a 400. All joking apart, when I am in MY mid engined sports car, MY toy, I don't want to see little seats in the rear view mirror. I like the thought of squeezing my lardy arse into the carbon bucket seats. Ideally I'd like a harness too. For me, when settling into a 410 I'd feel like Jim Clark or Fittipaldi ( obviously without the talent and skill). I can feel myself smiling now at the thought of it. Me, the 410, the bareness of it. The rising expectation as I reach for the starter button. Knowing how my current Evora makes me feel I know tge 410 woukd be worth it. I can't properly explain it, but the 410 excites me. Stirs me. Etc. The 400 is a great car. I am not dissing it. But with it's creature comforts and buttons and gadgets it just feels like a mass produced, excellent sports car. It is what most Audi RS and Porsche owners want. Not every Porsche owner wants an RS or GT3. They WANT the mainstream plush well equipped experience. The 400 delivers that in spades. Sorry if this is not helping. My current Evora delights me. The 410 excites me. It is not a rational state but it is how I feel or react when I see them. Thanks. 5 Quote Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate. Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies! The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts! Link to post Share on other sites
Trevsked 771 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Good post, that's exactly the point of the 410. Trevor. Quote I'll get around to it at some point. Link to post Share on other sites
Inkyfingers 88 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 7 minutes ago, C8RKH said: It is not a rational state This is the crux of it. We're all Lotus fans, but often for very different reasons. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayEmm 1,272 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Curious you think that @C8RKH - I have always felt the S1 Evora feels considerably plusher than the later items.The ride in those is pure magic. Quote James Martin (JayEmm) Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast Follow my Lotus adventure online! www.jayemm.com Link to post Share on other sites
Gold FFM C8RKH 6,406 Posted June 8, 2017 Gold FFM Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I think the S1 feels special @JayEmm. The S1 is more bespoke design, more handbuilt, more custom. The leather. The brushed metal. it just feels more haute! It just feels really special, to ME. The 400 is plusher. More finished product in a swish more modern mainstream way. I truly believe the interior revamp of the 400 was to bring it closer to the Audi RS / Porsche philosophy, product, and experience. The S1 to me is a classic piece of art. A Van gogh. A Monet. Hugely accomplished and expertly executed. The 400 is a Tracey Emine. A Damian Hurst. A modern, efficient, slightly more clinical but nevertheless excellent piece. Sorry. Probably now moving into the "he's talking bollocks" domain. But hopefully you get my drift. 1 Quote Alcohol. Sex. Tobacco. Drugs. Chocolate. Meh! NOTHING in this world is as addictive as an Evora +0. It's not for babies! The first guy to ride a bull for fun, was a true hero. The second man to follow him was truly nuts! Link to post Share on other sites
JayEmm 1,272 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I do. It's no secret at all that I want to move my 400 closer to the 410's philosophy, and many of the tweaks are easily done. New seats already in and working wonders, back seats are in the bin. Next time I get the geo done I will move to the 410 setup and see how that changes things, it is nice to test each difference "in isolation". I also would like to put a harness bar in the back of the car eventually, and I really quite like the Schroth harnesses Lotus use, really nice, very high quality and easy to use. A power upgrade is also quite necessary, having been fortunate enough to drive an Evora with the Swindon engine in, those feel incredibly special and IMHO what the Evora "S" should have been. Quote James Martin (JayEmm) Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast Follow my Lotus adventure online! www.jayemm.com Link to post Share on other sites
CocoPops 856 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 It's quite an emotive topic, is this one For me... The 410 isn't enough. For me, the Evora has to be 2+2, otherwise I'd buy an Exige. For me, the 410 isn't enough of a performance hike. For me, the 400 seems a better proposition. For me, I'd like to buy the 410 bootlid for my 400. And that's just it, 'For me...' I can't dictate whether someone wants a 410 or a 380Cup, but £ for £, I'd have the 380 Cup I think over a 410 Evora... but if the 410 Evora was a 2+2 then it would be a true no brainer. I'd buy a 410... IF I didn't own a 400. 1 Quote Currently Owned: 2018 Lotus Elise Sport 220 in Metallic Blue, Alcantara Pack, Forged Wheels, 2piece brakes, AirCon, Hard/Soft Tops, Red Calipers, Stereo, Interior Colour Pack, NVH Pack, Carpets, Mats. Previously Owned: 2016 Lotus Evora 400 'Hethel Edition' in Essex Blue, Red Leather, Red Calipers, Silver Forged Wheels Previously Owned: 2010 Lotus Evora NA in Solar Yellow, Sports Pack, Tech Pack, "Heritage Edition" Recaro Seats Follow my Lotus journey here: http://www.FaceBook.com/HandmadeInHethel Link to post Share on other sites
Buddsy 1,643 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 23 hours ago, The Pits said: Surely it would have been cheaper for them to produce a 1400kg Evora '430'? Simple remap. I think if that were possible it would appeal to quite a few people. buddsy Quote "Belief is the enemy of knowing" - Crrow777 Link to post Share on other sites
JayEmm 1,272 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 I have spoken to the factory before and whilst they can produce a 450bhp Evora in their sleep, there are a lot of economic and practical realities preventing that from being the case... for now. Quote James Martin (JayEmm) Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast Follow my Lotus adventure online! www.jayemm.com Link to post Share on other sites
mik 388 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 My (unfounded) impression is the gearbox is the limiting factor. Not a lotus item of course - bought from Toyota and I get the impression that the are only warrantied for around 302lbs.ft. If lotus want to put more torque through it, then they'll need to pick up the warranty themselves. When the 410 was released the spec sheet quoted max torque of 302lbs.ft. Same as the 400. Until I pointed out the engine has to be making at least 307lbs.ft to make 410PS at the states rpm. At which point the spec sheet was changed to max torque of 307..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bibs 11,380 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 The deal with Lotus & Toyota doesn't involved any sort of warranty. They limit the power to protect their own warranty budget, Toyota don't contribute at all. Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to post Share on other sites
mik 388 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 That blows that theory then Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayEmm 1,272 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 What @Bibs says is what I have also understood from my interactions with the factory. Unless they receive something clearly defective, Toyota don't have any sort of responsibility. The issues they have usually related to emissions,budget,etc... This is why engines are so expensive to make now, with dieselgate things are only getting more difficult too Quote James Martin (JayEmm) Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast Follow my Lotus adventure online! www.jayemm.com Link to post Share on other sites
Gashead1105 308 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 On 2017-6-6 at 19:36, JayEmm said: I expect in countries where modifications are difficult or illegal, and the Elise/Exige unavailable, the 410 might make perfect sense I haven't watched the video or anything like that, but I think this is the point. When it was first announced my immediate thought was that it was primarily for the US market, and I still think that's the case.I'd love to have a go in one of course... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post Bibs 11,380 Posted June 8, 2017 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 4 Quote 88 Esprit NA, 89 Esprit Turbo SE, Evora, Evora S, Evora IPS, Evora S IPS, Evora S IPS SR, Evora 400, Elise S1, Elise S1 111s, Evora GT410 Sport Evora NA For forum issues, please contact the Moderators. I will aim to respond to emails/PM's Mon-Fri 9-6 GMT. Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post The Pits 4,410 Posted June 8, 2017 Popular Post Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Oh heck I had a feeling it would look good in MG. It's going to go so well with the carbon. Off to Howards Lotus's website. I may be some time.... please let it not have a stereo! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CocoPops 856 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 6 minutes ago, The Pits said: Oh heck I had a feeling it would look good in MG. It's going to go so well with the carbon. Off to Howards Lotus's website. I may be some time.... please let it not have a stereo! you know full well it's going to be fully spec'd Quote Currently Owned: 2018 Lotus Elise Sport 220 in Metallic Blue, Alcantara Pack, Forged Wheels, 2piece brakes, AirCon, Hard/Soft Tops, Red Calipers, Stereo, Interior Colour Pack, NVH Pack, Carpets, Mats. Previously Owned: 2016 Lotus Evora 400 'Hethel Edition' in Essex Blue, Red Leather, Red Calipers, Silver Forged Wheels Previously Owned: 2010 Lotus Evora NA in Solar Yellow, Sports Pack, Tech Pack, "Heritage Edition" Recaro Seats Follow my Lotus journey here: http://www.FaceBook.com/HandmadeInHethel Link to post Share on other sites
The Pits 4,410 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Utterly gorgeous colour for a 410. But, yes, predictably fully stereo'd up. The word 'sub-woofer' just is a passion killer for me in a 410's description. Shame, Howards are really speccing some nice colours at the moment. I couldn't drive around in a Porsche coloured Lotus but, in isolation, that purple looks great too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mik 388 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Ooh yeah - that is lovely Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Evo400 12 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 The fire red one at Silverstone would be my pick. I would need to paint the wheels black though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayEmm 1,272 Posted June 8, 2017 Report Share Posted June 8, 2017 Fire Red @ Silverstone looks great. I saw a half-finished Military Grey car at Hethel today, not my cup of tea but I can see why people like it. Also saw the Trebor soft-mint Cup 250. Gonna take some more convincing on that one. Personally I like seeing the cars wear colours from German marques. I see it as a bit of fun. Quote James Martin (JayEmm) Director of Photography & Car Enthusiast Follow my Lotus adventure online! www.jayemm.com Link to post Share on other sites
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