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OOPS


clivef38

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OK - just found out that the car plus A frame is classed as a trailer and shouldn't exceed 750kg unless it has it's own braking system. 

DOT Information Sheet.

Looks like most motorcaravans towing small cars on A frames are breaking the law, unless they've got the really complicated & expensive ones that operate the vehicle brakes.

Elan+2S is 946kg and I'm not sure about it's brakes until I've checked them, but I can hire a car trailer from near me for £40 per day and more comfortable with that after my years of motor racing so I'll go for that.

Think M100 is over 750kg so is that a second "OOPS" from you?

Phil           Leave me alone I know what to do - I think. 

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On 04/06/2016 at 12:57, phil flash said:

OK - just found out that the car plus A frame is classed as a trailer and shouldn't exceed 750kg unless it has it's own braking system. 

DOT Information Sheet.

Looks like most motorcaravans towing small cars on A frames are breaking the law, unless they've got the really complicated & expensive ones that operate the vehicle brakes.

Elan+2S is 946kg and I'm not sure about it's brakes until I've checked them, but I can hire a car trailer from near me for £40 per day and more comfortable with that after my years of motor racing so I'll go for that.

Think M100 is over 750kg so is that a second "OOPS" from you?

I think it's even worse than that. The trailer weight limit is based on capacity not what's on there, so you could have a trailer weighing 200kg which could be rated to 2000kg (as in  could carry a 1800kg load + itself, and in those circumstances the car has to be certified as safe to tow 2000kg, even if the trailer is empty. In that respect it's similar to an HGV where you can have an empty vehicle which is less heavy than the lower threshold, but you still have to have the heavier license.

 

How does that effect towing a car (other than the obvious thing of if it's on a trailer) ?

The towed car has a maximum gross vehicle weight, that which it is allowed to safely carry. That maximum gross weight of the car is in effect the rated weight of the "trailer" when it's on a frame, so take a Suzuki alto as an example, it weighs 905kg but the car towing it would have to be capable of safely towing 1250kg due to the gross weight.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/suzuki/suzuki-alto-1.0-sz4-auto.asp

 

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2 hours ago, andydclements said:

I think it's even worse than that. The trailer weight limit is based on capacity not what's on there, so you could have a trailer weighing 200kg which could be rated to 2000kg (as in  could carry a 1800kg load + itself, and in those circumstances the car has to be certified as safe to tow 2000kg, even if the trailer is empty. In that respect it's similar to an HGV where you can have an empty vehicle which is less heavy than the lower threshold, but you still have to have the heavier license.

 

How does that effect towing a car (other than the obvious thing of if it's on a trailer) ?

The towed car has a maximum gross vehicle weight, that which it is allowed to safely carry. That maximum gross weight of the car is in effect the rated weight of the "trailer" when it's on a frame, so take a Suzuki alto as an example, it weighs 905kg but the car towing it would have to be capable of safely towing 1250kg due to the gross weight.

http://www.carpages.co.uk/guide/suzuki/suzuki-alto-1.0-sz4-auto.asp

 

Well, I'm not going to argue with a Department of Transport Information Leaflet. If it says 750kg that will do for me. I'd also expect the Police to use that criteria so if they ask me to put "my trailer" on the local weighbridge and it's under 750kg I'm laughing, if it's over I'm in deep 'doo doo'...

I think you're applying HGV Regs to PLG's as what you are saying doesn't make much sense to me as MGVW for a car includes passengers and it's illegal to carry passengers in a trailer (e.g. trailer caravan or car on A frame). I think Kerb Weight is probably a better guide to what it will show on a weighbridge. If the DOT define a vehicle attached by an A frame as a trailer it also means that a person can't sit in a car towed by an A frame to apply the brakes on that vehicle to make it a 'braked trailer'. So they can on the end of a tow-rope but what about a single solid tow bar ... does that make it a trailer too?

Books on the first Elan say it got heavier with revisions but the S4 & Sprint were 1540lbs / 700kg so there's some chance that could come under 750kg (with A frame) by removing battery and a few other bits but the original topic was moving a +2S which starts at 1970lbs / 894kg. Now if it was a rolling +2S shell without engine and gearbox it may be under 750kg but mine is complete so I'll be using a trailer...

 

Phil           Leave me alone I know what to do - I think. 

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